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So I've read through all the posts in "Larry's Secrets" along with many, many searches and find no real concensus on what type of Brake fluid to use. In my other truck (Range Rover Classic) if you use DOT4 instead of DOT3 it can lead to all kinds of seal problems, this is bad for an already leaky British truck. So, for the Ford which type is preferred? DOT3, DOT4, or DOT3/4 Hybrid? And then is the synthetic a good idea or not and why? No need to get into reasons for not using DOT5 as I don't plan on it and suspect nobody else is either. Planning on R&Ring my brakes this weekend. 
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The best choice is DOT 4. That info is from a source that I believe is reliable. |
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Ford spec for the SD is DOT 3. DOT 4 will take a little more heat without boiling. DOT 3 is good enough. If you want to spend extra for DOT 4, it's your money. |
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Quote: Man I'm hurt ... J/K ...  THIS THREAD should pretty well cover it and read Thomas T's "linky" reference to Jack and the fluid type is covered there. When Jack talks about brakes, I just listen and do the "monkey routine"  Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE
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Per Jack, I used ATE Super Blue (DOT4) fluid. The change in pedal firmness was amazing. |
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Quote: Where would one get this fluid? It's sounds like it would be difficult to find... |
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I was looking at this Web Page and it list the Valvoline Synpower Brake fluid as just below the ATE Super Blue in Dry and Wet Boiling Point. This seems like a good alternative that is much easier to obtain via your local parts counter. |
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Quote: This is good stuff. I use it in all my street cars. IMO the brakes on any Ford SD/Excursion, no matter what you're pulling, are never going to get hot enough for long enough to need a "racing" style brake fluid like Ate (good as it is). JMVHO. Ford themselves also has a very good, and well priced, high performance brake fluid. Years ago they did anyway, it was something like 3 or 4 bucks for a pint of the stuff. Came in a blue metal can. Now that said, the best stuff I've *ever* used as far as pedal feel and temperature resistance is Motul RBF 600. It's the only fluid I have not had problems with in my impossibly underbraked Integra road race car. But, it's expensive, can be hard to find, and needs changed more frequently. It is also not advisable to use it with other, non-Motul fluids. One final brake bleeding thing. My X is out on loan to my Mom right now so I can't look, but if it can be made to work with a Ford master cylinder, a power bleeder is one of the best things ever. You pressurize the system, and go around opening bleed screws until the fluid runs clean. I bought mine from http://www.motiveproducts.com. Made the master cylinder replacement on the CRX a 30 minute affair, no mess, no "friend helping," no joke. Those of you looking for the exotic stuff like Ate or Motul, check with racing supply houses for road racers. Pegasus, Carbotech, Racer Parts Wholesale, the stuff is out there. --Karl (I've tried just about all of them...) |
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Quote: That is a synthetic fluid as is the ATE stuff and you might want to do some more research before using that. Things may have changed, but a little over a year ago when I checked, the Valvoline Synpower or any of the "Special" brake fluids that were Low Moisture types or Silicone based were not really recommended and got the recommendation to "stay with normal DOT 3 or 4" so that's what I did. Again it's this "monkey thing" with me on some of this when I see a "smart monkey" 
Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE
Edited by Larry M (12/07/04 07:21 PM) |
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Just so you can have something else to figure out, My Motorcraft chemical catalog has Motorcraft DOT 3 Part #PM-1 shown to have a minimum dry boiling point of 550°F (288°C). |
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Man, I've been quoted in this thread so much it's very humbling. Plus I don't have that much to add. I really prefer glycol DOT 4 for vehicles, and regular 3 if I really can't find 4. But will change it out when I can to 4. krshultz, the Ford fluid that you mentioned was DOT 4, glycol based. It's really the same as used in Europe with many of the manufacturers. Any of the trucks 3/4 ton and above are really not that hard to get close to boiling temp. There's this little downward grade in the desert of California that the OE industry uses to check for fluid boil temps and it's amazing how close some vehicles come to the margins spec'd by the manufacturers (which is about 2-3 year old fluid). There really have been times where a new vehicle almost did not get launched due only to this reason. The actual cases of fluid boil are generally few and far between, but with a truck that is used for towing, a 8-10% downgrade with a loss of towing brakes can really get you into trouble. Keep in mind that 99% of the trailers are drum braked, which is a really poor design for shedding heat. Plus the electrics do not compensate for fade and increase apply pressure. And honestly, those trailer relined shoes don't have the best materials either. If you look at the history of the 99-04 SD brakes, they have a tendency to freeze the sliding pins or the pads in the torque brackets. The result, typically on the rear is to find a pad that has shucked off it's friction material. It does that because it has gotten very hot due to the constant drag against the rotor. That condition, with a good grade decent at speed can easily get into a fluid boil. The brake is already hot and it has not cooling ability between brake applications. Again, ain't a bad plan to have DOT 4 for the worst case. I had a neat graph in a Webshots album showing how much more energy is converted to heat with the weight of our trucks compared to something like a Crown Vic, but unfortunately that was lost with other albums when I did not renew my premium membership. Bottom line is change your fluid regularly and use a good fluid. |
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I know this bullentin applies to the Ford motorhome chassis but I thought it might be of interest in this thread Bullentin Q99 |
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Quote:There are a thousand vendors online. Google ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid. I got it from these folks. The cool thing about this fluid is they make an identical fluid except in a gold (amber) color so you change change fluid and follow the color change to know when the new stuff is through the brake lines.Quote: |
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Quote: Not to question you about brakes, but what you are saying is that on a downgrade, in the desert heat, with 2-3 year old brake fluid, you can come close to reaching the manufacturers specified boiling temperature. Did I understand this correctly? Quote: Fresh DOT 3 or 3 year old DOT 4, which do you prefer? Also, was it not you that said all brake fluid in the US comes from the same plant in MO? |
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Would it help if I told you it's also been tested in the western mountains of PA in the fall with 8-9% grades? Fresh DOT 4. Jeff, I know of an accident reconstruction of brake fluid boil that was done with a minivan in moderate flat area. It does not take a heavy truck down a grade in the heat. If a brake won't cool and there's sequential stops, your going to have issues. It's up to you how much of a margin you want. |
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Quote: Here is a link to the MSDS for Valvoline SynPower DOT 3 & 4 Brake fluid. I think it's Glycol based best I can tell. However it does appear to be a Low Moisture Absorbant fluid, which I suppose is good if you plan to flush your brake system every few years. I am guessing this means that it's Ok to use. Very easy to obtain and looks like the dry boiling point is about 503* with the wet BP being 343*. |
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Quote:Quote: That's why I went back and edited my post to include the "Low Moisture" wording and not being the "brake" expert you need to hear directly from one on this fluid. It might be fine or it might have issues under certain conditions. I'm just not qualified to address that. THIS is what I used and will be flushing/changing every two years. Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE
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Quote: I am just trying to reconcile what you say with my experience. As I have stated before, until 2 years ago, no one ever recommended replacing brake fluid to me. My father never replaces brake fluid, except in conjunction with a brake job. My mother is driving a 1995 car right now that has never had the brakes touched. The brakes seem to work just fine. In fact, the brakes in my father's cars always seem to work just fine. But that aside, I have bought into the periodic brake fluid change, and more OEMs are recommending it (although it is not required maintenance on the 2005 Buick that I just bought). Seems like a reasonable maintenance item. But knowing the people on these boards like I do, I am having trouble getting my head around the idea that only the "best" brake fluid will do. BTW, fresh DOT4 was not an option in my question. |
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Quote: I was changing brake fluid as a routine maintenance item in the early 70's. But I agree a lot of people don't. I have been in and around auto repair shops all my life. I have seen many examples of what I would consider neglect that didn't cause problems. I smile every time I see bypass filters, synthetic oil, and extended drains discussed. I had an Uncle who changed the oil filter and added a quart of oil every 2,000 miles(never changed the oil) on every vehicle he ever owned. |
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Quote: While I don't have the vehicle anymore the maintenance instructions for my 1986 Volvo and their was a maintenance requirement to change the brake fluid every couple of years/xxx miles. Can't remember the exact number, but it was like 2yr/24K miles. So at least for Volvo it's been around close to 20yrs for this brake fluid change requirement.  Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE
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Brake Fluid type revisited..... Again
