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(moved this question from the "general" board since I got no response there) I've read on these boards about a "cackle" problem in the PSDs. What exactly is this? My truck makes some strange noises, which I expected when I bought a diesel. I hear a "cold water in a hot skillet" sizzle when the AT shifts into OD, and several other non-gasoline-engine noises - none of which bother me unless they indicate an underlying problem. What is the "cackle", and is indicative of a real problem or just a nuisance? |
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H2odog, If you use the search function and type in cackle there is more reading and explainations than I or anyone else on this site could possibly keep track of.  The short and skinny of it all is that there is a lack of fuel for the number 8 cylinder due to the firing order of the engine, but some say it could happen in other cylinders also. Also air in the fuel supply will elevate the cackle also, plus various electronics that control the motor can also make the cackle rear it's ugly head. Don't get upset if your truck does have it, for there is a cure for it! Like I said, do a search on cackle, and depending on how fast you read, we should see you asking more questions in about three months! See ya, Shane |
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Thanks. My search yielded posts over my head. How does an uneducated driver recognize the cackle problem? Loud noise? Sudden hesitation or loss of power? I'm fat and happy today, so maybe I'm better off no knowing... |
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I have been on this board a short while, and did not know a definition either. I also dont know what a "LL#8" is, nor do I have any idea what the heck anyone means by "CV removal". I dont want to annoy those who are savvy, with my elementary questions, but I suppose if I am in the dark, there is probably 40 others who are as well. I think that there should be a section on this board, that was just a desciption of the problems and the fixes of our engines. in short, the same questions keep getting asked over and over, why not make a section dedicated to the most common answers, namely, cackle defined, and other terms, as well as summation of the most common mods, apparently this "hutch" thingy, and this "TT" thingy, so us boobs do not have to annoy the brains of the operation. I am too busy to read every post from now back to 1940, so I just follow along, looking for clues, and scoring an occasional link. My best score was a "Diesel innovations" link, which descibed in short a few of these common mods. The mods seem so simple, it seems Ford might catch on. Oh well. Well, all the ones I finally figured out were so simple, but until I saw a picture, it sounded complicated. |
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In reply to:Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Cackle and idle knock are normal diesel engine sounds that irritate those that want their diesel to sound like a big-block gasser. My engine doesn't doesn't sound like a big-block gasser. I'm glad  Mine goes clatter-cackle-knock-tic-tic-tic-clatter-clatter. All the time. Sounds just like a diesel engine.So I guess I've got cackle. Ford has said over and over that the diesel-engine noises some folks don't like are normal and will not hurt the engine. Ford won't do anything about those noises. That upsets some folks. Even though Ford has assured them that their engine is covered for up to 100,000 miles (unless they hot-rod the engine). But they want more. There are some phunny noises that Ford admits are not normal. They're caused by lousy fuel. Put in good fuel - or a cetane booster - and the noise is reduced. For a short time, Ford produced PSDs with genuine "California Cackle". Caused by the California emissions pkg that was used for a short while. The fix was to re-flash the PCM with a later code, and Ford did that under warranty. Another short period Ford produced some PSDs with phunny noises that were supposed to be fixed by replacing the #8 injector with a different design. So you'll read about LL#8 in the cackle threads. Welcome to the phunny farm. And remember that 99 percent of us love our clattering diesels. The other one percent want them to sound like big-block gassers.  But that other one percent can write a bunch of posts on this website. 
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jku, Some information to shorten your search. The LL#8 is the long lead #8 injector that is different from the other standard injectors in the PSD made after 5/00. It has different timing of the fuel injection due to how it is made. The CV removal is taking out the "check valves" between the fuel lines and fuel rails in the heads. They supposedly reduce fuel flow and supposedly were installed to possibly reduce pressure pulsations from negatively affecting the factory fuel regulator. TT, or Texastowncar, determined that cackle can be detected by comparing cylinder pressures where the #8 cylinder's pressure was "abnormally" higher than the others. The phenomenon may be the result of not enough fuel flowing to #8 injector due to #6 injecting right before #8 and starving it of enough fuel to properly inject fuel in the proper proportions during the injection cycle. This may also be exacerbated by the fact that #8 cylinder has the LL#8 injector. Another possibility may be that the Ford installation of the Navistar engine has dead-end fuel rails where air and gasses can collect and possibly interfere with fuel delivery to the injectors. This is common knowledge amongst diesel mechanics that air in fuel is no good. TT's solution was to provide a method of flow through fuel delivery to remove the dead fuel rails and to provide more, possibly unaerated fuel to the injectors. TT accomplished his solution by installing a bypass regulator to the ends of the fuel rails and returning the unused fuel to the fuel tank. The TT Mod. The Hutch Mod is the replacement of items in the suction side of the fuel delivery system between the in-tank pick up unit and the fuel pump. The parts and pieces all use quick disconnect type fittings that can easily suck up, or entrain air into the fuel. The specific items are the short hose between the fuel pump and hard line replaced with a "standard" fuel line and hose clamps. The in-tank pick up/ mixing body was removed/ altered/ changed to provide a well sealed unit that would not suck, or entrain air when the fuel level in the tank dropped below the level of certain joints in the body. Hope this helps, Rickie |
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The cackle problem with the PSD's is when owners complain about a noisy PSD motor. Then an equal amount of people tell them they don't know what they are talking about and post those messages. This in turn results in those first mentioned owners arguing back, which in turn causes more responses. Modifications are developed where some people say the noise is eliminated, others say it isn't. Then to top it off, someone mentions Kim Lux, or he himself enters the fray and all hell breaks loose, forcing the moderators to close the thread. This goes on for years. That is the more recent definition of PSD cackle. |
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Thanks Smokey, and count me in the 99% of those who LOVE their clackety diesel engine noises. I did NOT buy this truck so as to look "cool". I did NOT buy this truck to sound "cool". I bought the truck hoping it would pull the tongue out of anything I hooked to it, and so far I've been real pleased. I got this truck (a '99 w/67,000 miles) for less money than I paid for a used gas burner (a '00 Ram 1500 5.9L w/23,000 miles) 10 months ago. The RAM will not pull my travel trailer (30' w/slide) and stay in 3rd gear - OD wasn't even an option. The PSD pulls the same trailer in OD with absolutely NO loss of speed on any hills I've encountered thus far. It gets the same or better mileage, and the PSD should last considerably more miles than a gas burner. Seems like a no brainer to me - but I suppose if diesel noises forced me to go on Prozac in order to sleep at night it would be a different matter. Any of you who are unhappy with the noises, or anything else about your PSD, are welcome to purchase my Ram1500 for book value or best offer - just send me a private message.
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Smokey Wren wrote: In reply to: I'm going to disagree. Mine acts for all the world like Hutch is right - the fuel pickup lets air into the fuel and this causes a knock. If I let mine fall below 1/4 tank, then some of the time it makes a banging knock, not as bad as some .wav files that I have listened too, but still a distinct knock. Mine eventually stops doing this after I fill the tank. Something different is going on with mine below 1/4 tank, and it is hard for be to believe that BOTH sets of sounds are normal. Sometime this summer I will make the Hutch mods - if I can I will try to see if there is a way to detect the air, but I may just make the mods even if I can't so I can see if it will run with less than 1/4 tank the same as it does with more fuel in the tank. Bottom line: I am NOT trying to make it sound like a sparky motor, I would like it to be the best diesel that it can be. Apologies for disagreeing with someone who is both admin and most likely much more knowledgeable than me, but my truck seems not to be quite right, and Hutch seems to have the fix. |
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I've had my PSD parked next to an International tow truck with a 444, both idling. The International sounded beautiful, mine sounded sickly. I went back & forth between them several times and was very displeased with the sound of my PSD. But, that was mid-winter and I've noticed that my PSD sounds better since it's been warm (fuel difference?). I've also stopped using Stanadyne - I recall reading somewhere that some additives may promote the knocking noise. I'll give the mod-pioneers another year or so hash out and test their changes before I consider jumping in. "Never buy first year production.", right? |
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Hey Smokey, Let me add this, this imaginary thing called cackle had my truck getting no better than 17 mpg. (have you heard the wav file of my truck?) Our trailer weighs the same as yours and on a recent trip to Maine after the mods I now get 13.8mpg while towing, and that was at an average 70mph all the way home. I just recently returned from a 750 mile trip to Philly (no trailer in tow) and back, and on the trip to Philly at a constant 68mph I went 333 miles on 15.5 gallons of fuel! You do the math! And yes I top the tank to the top of the filler neck! That's a heck of a change from 17.5 mpg. I'm not saying everyone will be as fortunate, but I am still in debt to Hutch and others for what they have found. I all I have to say is GO drive a T444e that is in a 4000 series IH truck, and then tell me your stroke is running correctly! Oh and by the way, I pulled the PPIII for I do not need it anymore to pull the trailer, all I need now is a Transgo shift kit from Brians truck shop and I'll be all set. She has plenty of power I just need better shift patterns!
See ya, Shane |
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In reply to:No need to apologize to me. Read my sig. I'm not sure we disagree about the Hutch and TT (and Riley and others) mods. I relate those mods to my old hot-rodding days. None of the engine manufacturers produced a stock engine that was good enough for the hot-rodders of the '50s and '60s. The first step when we bought a new car was to disassemble the engine and "port, polish, balance and blueprint" the engine. We gained a lot of horses and a smoother-running engine. Was it necessary? No, of course not. 99 percent of the engines were never modified, and the owners were fat, dumb, and happy. But those of us in the know couldn't stand to wait until we could do a little polishing to get rid of assembly-line slop and tolerences. Some went so far as to spend all day in an auto parts store weighing pistons and rods to get a perfectly matched set. Manufacturing tolerances are much closer now, so porting and polishing and matching pistons and rods are no longer necessary. But a little fine tuning of the fuel system won't hurt anything.
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h20_dog, Thanks for asking the question that was on alot of peoples mind. I was like some other poster who said that he was just hanging around looking for clues here and there. This single thread is by far the most informative I've read thus far. Thanks Rickie for the explanations in your post. Today, I am more knowledable than yesterday and the day has just begun...  Mike Puyallup, WA |
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Everyone compares a 444 to a 7.3. It is my understanding that they are the same engine essentially, but different computers, and programmed for different power levels? For instance, take the new 6.0l coming out (I use this only because the numbers are a little fresher in my mind): In the Ford superduty line, it is supposed to run at 325hp and 550ft-#, in the Navistar in current form, its 235 hp and 5something torque (from what I remember). I would expect the engines to sound different, because they are tuned differently. Why would Navistar tune it so low if it was capable of so much more?? There has to be a trade off somewhere, or you'd always tune it high!! If Ford is pepping up the engine to get more HP, it has to be at a cost of something else (at least in my mind). If a lower power version in the medium trucks is so great, why is everyone hopping to up the numbers on an engine that is already pepped up? I know that torque is the important number in big trucks, but if torque is the important #, why does everyone scramble for HP?? It seems like the quest for HP has to come at a cost. If it was free (and met regulations) Ford would give it to you and charge more for it. This is purely my own opinion, but I think too many people are buying diesels when the want big-block gasser horsepower. These are 6000# to 8000# trucks that people are concerned about 1/4 mile times?? Sorry for going OT on the thread! |
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I too agree, there are hundreds of us on this forum that have come to respect and depend on the advice of Smokey, Hutch, TT and many others who are dedicated to this site. This is my forth diesel and the sounds in it are NOT NORMAL diesel clatter! AND, my 14MPG road-8MPG towing is not up to par for a diesel. I realize that the beta testing has to take time to evaluate the outcome of all these mods. That is why I have not done the TT mod yet. The Hutch mods (tank and prefuel pump connector) were stand-alone logical (KEEP THE AIR OUT OF THE FUEL SYSTEM) so I did them. My engine runs much quieter! I see that there is controversy on the single or dual fuel rail mod? I also wish that a dedicated thread would be started to continuously track the results of these mods. Thanks to all the smarter than I diesel owners out there that are striving to make these PSD's run like the IH versions. No doubt about it, FORD has and will loose a lot of business for all the headaches they have caused us owners. You know, sometime ignorance IS bliss, but down the road I think we will be paying for Ford's sorry engineering on these PSD's. IH sold Ford an excellent engine and Ford screwed up the fuel delivery system. 
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Hank53 You have said one thing that should gets Fords attention and that is that they will pay in many future sales for the headaches and disgust they have caused the many with a serious cackle/knock problem."Nobody" that knows anything about a Diesel should expect it to run like a BB gasser but on the other hand when it sounds like its ready to sail a rod out and misses and has no power The customer doesnt need a line of garbage from Ford Motor Co. that its normal or the nature of the beast crap either because of there lack of responsibility to the problem.Burned once you will remember next time around and think twice about dumping your cash into a tk package with a engine that may or may not run correctly because of a manufactured problem period
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It would be interesting to know if the new 6.0 has a "deadend" fuel rail. If not, that would IMHO be effectively an admission by ford that they screwed it up, but decided to fix it in the next generation engine... Anyone know? |
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Smokey: Just saw this post and have to tell you that it is ONE OF THE BEST ANSWERS TO THE CACKLE QUESTION I HAVE EVER SEEN! And I agree 100%! I LOVE my truck and the all sounds it makes. My 2002 is quieter than my 2001 but the '01 was not noisy by diesel standards. Hell, I like the sounds that my IH farm tractor makes too--but it is much louder than my PSD. Does this mean it has the dreaded 'cackle'? Ron |
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1. You may be missing the worm clamp on the umbrella pickup. 2. The gel / ice valve is allowing air in when it is exposed from fuel slosh. |
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And their off. Into the first turn Smokey Wren in is the lead, but Beantown is a quarter length behind, hot on his ...... |
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On edit, WAIT what's this? We have anothwer entrant here, out of the first turn... 
I too absolutely LOVE MY TRUCK, why else on earth would I and so many other people have spent the money and effort making them better? There seem to be a lot of folks who do not believe there are issues with the trucks, I'll tell you straight up there are, and I have no monetary interest in the upgrades to these trucks so I have nothing to gain in making that statement. When I first bought my truck mine sounded like 90% of the other Powerstrokes out there and I also thought it was "normal" for the Powerstroke, then I found the air in the fuel supply and corrected that issue and the difference was incredible in power and noise level, my truck was so much quieter it was then in about the top 10% for trucks I have seen, then I installed the by-pass set up and the truck got a little quieter BUT a whole lot stronger and smoother, I replaced the rattling pig of a torque converter and my truck is now one of if not the quietest Powerstroke I've run across. How many of you can actually hear your engine fan pulling air? Or the hum of your tires on the interstate, or hear the A/C clutch cycle in? Can you order food at a drive through WITHOUT turning off your truck, I can. If the "unbelivers" and the guys who feel their stock trucks run great would just take the time and effort to look somebody up, ride in and listen to one of the modified trucks they would know what I am talking about. The combustion and "diesel noise" everybody puts off as being "normal" are not normal and will effect the power output tremendously as well as the long term reliability of the truck. I am in Augusta Ga. if anyone wants to inspect my vehicle, just PM and I'll make my truck avialable, I'll also be in Destin Fl. July 11-14, it's vacation so any "visits" will have to be short and sweet or I'll be in VERY hot water with the Mrs.
Edited by hutchinaugusta (06/19/02 01:25 PM) |
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FMTRVT wrote: In reply to: Wow! I may yet wind up with a BS in PSD Science from you Phd's! First a great answer to my brake issues, now these direct pointers on the knocking. Thanks. The second item was already suspect in my mind, the first also sounds like it is in the tank as well. I think I may put those Hutch tank mods higher up on my priorities list. Can it also knock at higher engine speeds from air? I have some of this as well, related again to low fuel (1/4 full) in the tank. Thanks Again, |
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Smokey and the other naysayers, You guys are full of it and your "I like the way my diesel sounds" crapola is the exact reason that Ford won't bother to do anything about fixing these trucks. Ignorance is bliss and I know because I was ignorant in the past. To the guys that are curious about cackle or knock: If your PSD has any noise coming from the engine when you are out on the highway, other than the whine of the turbo, then it is not running correctly. That is the bottom line. If you hear even a faint rattle or a clatter or a knock when you start up a slight hill then you have "cackle" or fuel and combustion related noise. I have driven Hutch's truck and it makes absolutely no noise on the highway. There is no combustion noise of any kind. His truck gets around 23 mpg empty which is one of the highest I have seen. The reason his truck runs so well is because he has eliminated the air from the fuel, installed the flow thru fuel return on the heads and gone to the trouble of figuring out which injectors were damaged by Ford's POS fuel system and replaced those injectors with new ones. All of the has been done on his own time and expense and he is one great guy to share his success and failure with the rest of us for free. I will bet you that very few, if any, of you naysayers can tell me what the intended benefits are of the split shot fuel injector or how it operates to achieve these benefits. Just so I don't have to endure any of your replies I will tell you what I am after. The main benefits are: 1) a primed cylinder to decrease the harshness of the main detonation 2) reduced combustion noise for a quieter engine 3) better fuel economy and lower emissions from a more complete fuel burn. So there it is staring you in the face. Are our PSDs quiet? NO! Do we all get 20 mpg when we keep our foot out of it? NO! Why not? Because proper fueling and combustion is required. Does Ford's stock fuel system do the job? NO! Is Ford doing anything about it? NO! What can we do about it? Spend our own time and money to make things right or perpetuate the problem with statements like "I like my noisey diesel and if you guys want a gasser then you should buy one." Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am not telling you guys that either "don't have trouble" or "don't care", that you should keep your opinions to yourself. But maybe you should stop telling everyone that asks about cackle that its a problem created by the guys that want to "Hot Rod" their trucks. Because that is a load of B.S. and the vast majority of us trying to get our trucks to run correctly are just average guys that would like to be able to enjoy our $35,000 POS without having to stop at every fuel station we see, shut it off at every drive-thru, or yell at the other passengers in the truck just to be heard. Let the flames begin, |
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"How many of you can actually hear your engine fan pulling air? Or the hum of your tires on the interstate, or hear the A/C clutch cycle in? Can you order food at a drive through WITHOUT turning off your truck..." I can answer yes to all of the above. And the only mods to my truck are as listed in my sig. However, prepump fuel lines and clamps were replaced when my aux tank was installed, which was long before anyone proposed that as a cackle fix. Mileage is consistently 17-21 unloaded, 12-14 towing. I currently have over 66,000 trouble-free miles on the odometer. And since it ain't broke, I ain't gonna fix it. |
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"And since it ain't broke, I ain't gonna fix it." Bruce, you did "fix" the problem, so like it or not you've got a modified truck, the pre-pump lines are the problem and what is causing the damage to the injectors. How many miles were on your truck when the aux. tank was installed? |
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I'll add my comments, too. I have a V-10, so I'm on the outside looking in. Our ambulance service has a 1999 PSD ambulance. It rattles, knocks, and makes lots of noise. Just like a diesel should...right? I read the occasional cackle thread here, but I really didn't have a good grasp on it. Last year we got a 2001 PSD ambulance. The first time I drove it I was amazed. It was sooooo much quieter than the 1999, and had alot more power. At that moment I understood what you guys were griping about. Several months passed before I drove the 2001 again. The motor now sounded like it was coming apart, and it felt like it had lost alot of power. It actually runs worse than the 1999 ambulance. Now I'm glued to the cackle threads and the fixes...even though I don't have one. Hutch, Bob Riley, and all the others...keep up the good work. |
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Where can I get this Cackle ? Is there a vendor on the site that sells this mod I'm feeling left out here guys
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"How many miles were on your truck when the aux. tank was installed?" Don't remember for sure, probably around 30K. |
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FMTRVT, I DO belive that Gateman is now two lengths ahead and in the final stretch!
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Rickie, thanks for the GREAT summary. I too have embarked upon a very frustrating search for a description of these much touted mods. Your post is very helpful, thanks for taking the time to write it. |
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Oh my, No. The problem is: They keep letting new horses in; Though it's a small track, they keep circling until the moderator jumps out with the checkered flag. Or everyone gets board and wanders off to the next track. Come to think of it, I've never seen the checkered flag here, just the black one. |
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Hutch, I have 20K on my '01, and I don't knowingly have a problem. The pre-pump fix makes so much sense, I plan to do it ASAP. I am wondering if there is damage to the injectors. Do you have an educated guess? Can (or perhaps, will) the dealer tell me? I have seen in some of your posts that if one drops the tank to replace that QD coupling, may as well do the in-tank fix. Can you briefly explain (or point to an explaination of) this fix? Thanks... |
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Beantown did the pre pump stuff after his truck made all that noise (loudest I've ever heard) and it's now running great, (beannieboy, can you re-post the link to your sound clip?), if your truck is not making any unusual noises on individual cylinders it's probably fine. |
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Here it is my cackle wav Be patient when you download it, the wav is a 1.2MB file. You can't miss the cackle around the 40 second mark in the recording. See ya, Shane |
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SCOOBY, My truck has 22,000 miles, 4,000 of which were put on in the last month. At 18,000 miles I can say that at least one or more of my injectors is damaged and was probably damaged long before the 18,000 mile mark. The reason the injectors get damaged is from the air being sucked into the fuel lines pre-pump and then being passed to the dead-end fuel rails where it along with the fuel is heated and agitated by the split-shot feedback from the injectors. Then the only way out is thru the injectors. The plunger and barrel in the injectors are very tight tolerance mating parts. They depend on cool unaireated fuel and a complete fill for lubrication. So when you force anything else thru them they suffer damage. It is highly likely that many of us truck owners suffered damage to the injectors after only driving for a few thousand miles. How many miles can you drive your car without good clean oil before the internal parts of the engine are damaged? You can see that there is no easy answer. The only definitive answer is if you change your oil regularly and don't let it get low between changes then your engine will last longer than if you don't. The same applies for the injectors. If you run cool unaireated fuel at the proper pressure to insure the injectors fill completely then you will get a lot longer life from them than if you don't. There real issue has never been about cackle or no cackle or who has it or who does not. The real issue is that Ford's factory fuel system does a poor job of supplying the injectors with fuel. All the "if it ain't broke and don't got the cackle" guys can jump in with their .02, but they can never change this fact. |
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What are you complaining about, dem's just "normal diesel sounds" or "they all sound like that" right?
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Beantown, Have you got any "after mod" recordings to compare. Hutch, Any word from TT on the injector tests he was doing? |
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Amen Smokey. It's amazing how in the real world 99 out of 100 PSD owners are satisfied. Here in cybercackle world, it's just the opposite. Put me down in the stock and satisfied column. Flame retardant suit on! Mike On Edit- I really don't mind reading these threads in light of an 'improvement'. Any machine can be improved. What gets tiresome is the endless repetitions of: -Stock engine is a POS. -Ford has a great conspiracy to hide the 'problem'. -If you like your truck stock you are ignorant. |
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Beantown, thanks for the WAV. I can definitely hear your knock, and my truck doesn't have that. From my old John Deere days (farming as a kid) that almost sounds like the engine is slightly "lugging" - trying to carry too much load at too low an RPM. But I'll be the first to admit I don't know anything about PSDs. Thanks for explaining an obviously complicated subject, and I certainly respect the knowlege of those who do the aftermarket engineering and enhancing, but hopefully the aftermarket chip that came with my truck will be as far from stock as I ever get. |
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In reply to: 350dweezil, IMHO, the 'pre-pump' mod is sooo simple that I would not bother 'waiting'. It seems to me to just be what many mechanics would do if the hose was leaking. I'll bet my hose is going to leak sooon and I'll have to 'fix' it! I will do the tank mods sometime this summer as well, I have what appear to be to be classic symptoms of the fuel pickup or mixing valve in the tank letting air in.The engine fuel rail stuff does sound more involved to me, and like you I would wait to get more data and info first, some of which is just more time reading the many posts on this site. I might never do it, my truck runs well whan it (presumably) does not have air in the fuel lines. Smokey: This ain't hotrodding, it has the feel of fixing a problem, not 'improving' a modest performance system. My truck runs differently if I never let it get below 1/4 tank than it does if I let the tank get low. This type of ballpeen hammer bang-bang-bang is a normal Ford design feature??? Only when low on fuel?If Ford would just release a 'firm shift' PCM code and go "Quality is Job 1" on the air in the fuel system problem, I'd bet there would be a lot of happier customers. |
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Mike, What I really get tired of is all you ignorant stock fools calling all us cackling fools, fools. Ha! Top that. |
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Gateman You cant be topped with that one!! I love the ones that buy there first diesel powerd vehicle and think that the cacklers are all nuts and FMC isnt denieing anything or sweeping the problem away to a new engine Ahhhhh yes my first PSD that was in 95 and There wasnt any problem with it,Also my 97 other than a tranny!! No Knock or cackle things have taken a slide since the the middle of 99
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Smoothy, I'll record another "after tank mod wav" today. To who ever said it, I have NEVER called my truck a POS! And if you lift my hood it IS totally stock. Except for an EGT probe and a Boost gauge tube. I even run the STOCK air box and air cleaner! Oh and as I stated before I have regressed from using a chip also (hot-rod device in my book!). Now as far as mods and after market stuff on my truck, a 5ver hitch (thanks to Smokey and his towing posts we went with a 5ver), and a catback four inch exhaust, a bug RE-deflector (pastes those suckers right at eye level for ya), EGT and boost gauge, a CB and mud flaps and that acounts for all the after market stuff. The only mods to the truck is in the fuel tank and pre pump. Which has brought back my love affair with the truck. Hey Philbo, I'll sell you my old in tank mixing bowl. Gauranteed to give you a cackle below 3/8ths of a tank. Heck i'll even throw in the old fuel lines if you want to be sure it will REALLY cackle. And for you shipping is free! See ya, Shane |
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Their exiting the last turn and 10 lenghts behind is hutchinaugusta, wait he's making a late charge, will it be enough? They are in the stretch and ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's amazing how in the real world 99 out of 100 PSD owners are satisfied. Here in cybercackle world, it's just the opposite. ----------------------------------------------------------- I taken about 6 or 8 Powerstorke owners who were "very happy with their truck" for rides in my truck, the first words out of their mouth (usually before we stop) is when can I fix their truck, NONE of them realized how well and smooth the truck can actually run and now they want their truck to have the mods, the difference really is dramatic. If you are like the other 99% of PSD owners who DON'T KNOW the difference before and after the modifications then get some education, listen to and RIDE in a modified truck, then make an informed and educated comments and decisions as to what if anything you will do to your truck. Lovin' your truck is fine and dandy, I love my truck as much as anyone here, but if you don't KNOW the difference or what you're talking about why disregard, degrade and demean other peoples efforts and findings? |
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Hutch, I love you man. |
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In reply to: Something tells me I'll wind up eating those words before long... Hutch, do they still have a big cutting horse show in Augusta? I went to that about 10 years ago and Augusta's night life was a sight to behold.
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Hi All! I have been following this thread with great interest. I want to make some of these changes to my PSD X but I can't seem to find the where some of these ideas originated. Can anyone point me to the original links detailing how to do the "hutch mod", the "prepump mod" and the "TT mod"? I have spent many hours looking through past threads over the past few days trying to find the original threads for these mods and keep finding only how wonderful the results have been. From what I have read, the air issues can cause injector damage over time and since my truck is practically new I want to prevent that from happening. As for those of you who don't think these things are noisier than they should be I suggest you try a few other diesels. I love the truck but it definitely needs some refinements. It really gets annoying pulling up to a drive-thru and having to kill your engine to order your food. While I may not have the experience with PSDs that some of you do I am willing to learn. Now if I can only get the PSD to the same relative output levels of my VW TDI. For a relative comparison my somewhat tweaked (but not nitrous or propane) VW TDI dynoed (at the wheels) 274 lb/ft of torque and 141 HP out of a 1.9l motor. So to put this in perspective of a PSD assuming it was the same size (7.3l) it would be making 1052 lb/ft torque and 541 HP without nitrous or propane. To say it runs well would be an understatement. Now if my X will reach somewhat comparable levels of performance... Thanks in advance if any of you can point me in the right direction for these mods. I want to get them done ASAP while the weather is still good here in Minnesnowtah! One last think, anyone know of an auxiliary fuel tank that will work with an X? Maybe I can knock off 2 problems at once.
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 smokey...smokey, How do you account for TT's work he has done? He has proven there are problems with our trucks....and you still want to take Fords word for it? I will prey for ya pal.....
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In reply to: You mis-counted. The other guys are several laps behind you. You are just pulling up from behind to lap them again.
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Check your box. You have a private message from me. Ron |
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Hutch, do they still have a big cutting horse show in Augusta? I went to that about 10 years ago and Augusta's night life was a sight to behold. ---------------------------------------------------------- YES they do, last years show was when I was thinking of buying a Powerstroke and man there were THOUSANDS of Powerstrokes in town, more than you could shake a stick at, it was unreal. Some Stock and some really tricked out, are you going to attend this years show? |
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Ok I will bite on this thread. I have two PSD's, both factory stock. One runs great and one does not. The one that does not has been has been running bad nice day one and Ford finds nothing wrong with it. The engine has low power, had a what I call a knock since day one and has suffered decreased fuel economy in it's 52K miles. Zero to 60 is unsafe on short on-ramps. 1999.0 F350 CC DRW 6Speed runs like a top. 2000 Excursion Limited runs like crap. So those who feel there is NO problem please explain to me why this is so. Thanks |
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I'm afraid you just illustrated my point, Hutch. I've been working with, in, and on diesels for most of my life, from Yanmars to 3408 Cats. Tell me where in my post you can see any claim that the mods do not effect some change. Show me where I've degraded or demeaned someone. But because I find my stock truck entirely satisfactory, you conclude I 'don't know what I'm talking about'. Now if I were, on the other hand, to write that some of the posts most critical of Ford engineering were by persons unable to spell or construct a sentence, that might be demeaning, and accurate. But I haven't done that, and no it's not a personal reference to you. What I would like to see are some SAE certified tests for noise, power, and mileage to verify results of mods. Show me the Data. Mike On edit- I do not rule out doing mods to my truck at some time. My last diesel truck was far from stock. But the decision will be based on hard facts, not testimonials from people with financial or emotional investments in the outcome. |
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 CLICK HERE sorry they are not ASE certified tests, just some "good ol' boys" who have tested and documented cylinder pressures, horsepower (on a chassis dyno) and fuel consumption.I also have been around and worked on gas & diesel engines for 30+ years, my comment about "not knowing what you are talking about" was not a slam, I was referring only to having seen or ridden in a modified Powerstroke and being able to compare the modified truck to a stock truck, not your experience or skill level, sorry if I offended you. BTW, spelling and grammar have nothing to do with anybody's intelligence or their ability to figure out and fix a problem, did illiterate people who are "unable to spell or construct a sentence, that might be demeaning, and accurate" design the fuel system on these trucks, no me thinks it was some of them highly educated "smart" fellas who CAN "spell and construct sentences". When I was an apprentice mechanic a lot of the OLD "class "A" or master mechanics" never finished grade school and could not even fill out their own work orders, but they could trouble shoot and fix trucks, isn't that what this site is about, fixing and upgrading trucks? |
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HorseTrucker, I'm in kind of the same shape as you. I've got 2 of'm and one runs good. However, my X never downgraded to unsafe on an on- ramp. It just doesn't run like the cuttaway does. Shimming the regulater has done wonders for my X, it still runs like crap when cold but once it is warmed up its running pretty good. As Hutch will confirm 55psi isn't enough for proper injector operation. I feel low pressure has caused injector damage to already marginal injectors. From what I understand there are no good quality controls in effect for the injectors and as many as 25% are bad to start with(hearsay, I've read a lot and this is one of the places that I read). At 25% that would mean an average of 2 bad injectors per motor, but total falures would be detected early on(sometimes). P.S. I graduaed the 10th grade and I still miss a few spelling words.And some gramatical and some structuring problems as well. |
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Believe me, I have nothing but admiration for those willing to make the effort to push the envelope. As I stated, I will consider mods in the future. Meanwhile, This is a quote from your linked material. "Your truck may or may not have cackle caused by the same component or combination of components. And worst, doing all these may NOT fix your problem, rather these are issues that you need to consider when attempting to sort out your problem." That is consistent with some posts by owners who've done mods and report no improvement. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on what percentage of PSD's are defective, somewhere between 'all' and 'few'. Mike |
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I hope the ones who think everybody with a truck problem a crybaby never have any of these problems. When I bought a diesel I never expected it to sound like a gasser, I wanted something to pull my jeep across the U.S. and haul the wife and kids with it. It went great for about a year. Now it can barely do 55 floorboarded with the trailer. I'll never buy another new truck,especially a Ford(which I've bought about 3 new ones over the years,along with a couple of ford cars). If I'm going to have to spend a fortune to get it running right I might as well buy something with 100k on it. I guess I should have bought a super crew, at least I would have saved $4000 on the price of the dog. I've got 40k on it so it's probably too late to use the lemon law. Too bad the Ford idiots ruined what otherwise would have been the perfect truck. It's easy to see why Chebby is about to pass them in truck sales. |
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First off you are starting out with garbage injectors from new that have poor quality control and are not manufactured to strict specs its a crapshoot to get a "Good" running PSD buying new.Then throw in the existing fuel system horrors caused by Ford Motor Co. and the potential is there for serious problems some tks have it bad others not as bad and others are a complete disgrace and total pigs Knocking missing and down on power big time.As Hutch has stated before Damged injectors are the root problem of a dog truck But I have seen Fords equiptment fail to find these problems over and over unless the cylinder is totally dead it will pass there tests and a weak intermitten skipping injector will throw no flags on there equipt ment.All of this garbage falls right back into Fords lap and there not gonna do squat for you. They have a new motor on the stage and tuff sh*& for the 7.3 people with problems youz on your own
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In reply to: You don't know too many engineers, do ya? |
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Jeepnford, If your power is that poor, a dealer would surely have to admit that a problem exists and repair it under the 100K mile PSD warranty? Right? Have you taken it to a dealer? (I've always wondered if Ford would really honor the 100K warranty). |
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Unfortunately, even if a dealer admits a truck is not running right, their hands are tied by Ford. Even if you are still under the 3/36K mark, the truck has to be throwing codes. I have had my truck in several dealers. They all say the same thing. Ford will not authorize them to spend time trying to figure out what is wrong with your truck. They run the diagnostics, but if it falls within spec, Ford says don't do anything. Sometimes they don't even want to run diagnostics if no codes are showing. Ford has tied your warranty to the reliability of the computers monitoring the engine. As many have stated, your warranty doesn't matter much if Ford says nothing is wrong. I am at the point know to where I will probably pay out of my pocket for an independent shop to do some diagnostics, pull injectors and test, inspect cylinders, etc. I will then use those documents to try and get Ford to fix things under warranty. |
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TKMitchell, I am in the same boat. I still have a little bit of engine noise and am convinced that it is related to bead injectors. If I cant isolate the problem I will be taking my truck to an independent mechanic. I might even have them use a bore scope on all eight holes. |
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I've taken it to a couple of dealers. One in Missouri where I live and a bigger dealer in Iowa where purchased. The first one replaced a MAP sensor and the second the fuel regulator. Neither made any improvement. I'm going back to the second dealer again and complain. |
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TKMitchell,You have made a real good statement Even if the dealer wants to help you they really cant,I mean getting into serious diagnostic stuff beyond what there computer will tell them.Ford wont authorize it and there so called "Spec's"are so diverse that everthings ok even if its not and you know damn well its not but they got you there.There diagnostic equiptment sucks plain and simple.Either do it yourself if you have the capability or take it to an Independent shop that can dig into it Unfortunately it comes from your own pocket but if you want it right its your only choice.Possibly an independent shops findings and sucess on fixing it could be used to make Ford pay when they were unable to properly repair it thats the way it should be anyways for spending your own cash |
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hmmmmmmmmmm. smokey, let me begin by saying that i have always had great admiration for your knowledge and your willingness to share it. your statements have always been well thought out, well written and backed up with hard evidence or facts. particular topics that come to mind are recalibrating the speedo, tire pressures, and towing limitations. having said that i would say with respect.... when you make a statement such as this In reply to: and In reply to: i would think you would be consistent in your treatment of subject matter. in other words present your argument then back it up with facts. tt, hutch and others have spent their own money, time and expertise to do just that. i have a difficult time accepting ford's "word" on the subject simply because of the conflict of interest. if you could come up with some hard data from an independent source proving that cackle and idle knock are "normal diesel sounds" it would be helpful to me. i have had the opportunity to ride in george's (k-9 crew) modded rig and the difference is stark to say the least. his truck sounds like a singer sewing machine. unbelieveable! btw have you had the opportunity to hear a modded truck? so....until i see some hard data showing that idle knock and cackle are normal diesel sounds i'm leaning toward the guys that have the guts to tell the emperor he has no clothes. again with respect, johnnieboy |
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I'm afraid that if I paid $35K (+/-) for a truck that wouldn't pull a 6000lb boat 50mph Ford wouldn't have the opportunity to speak with ME about it. They'd be talking to Johnny Cochran and F. Lee Bailey - counsel for the plaintiff.
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h2o_dog, You have one of the really good diesel injection shops right in Memphis. Mid-South Diesel. Why don't you take it to them and see what they have to say. A lot of us that have purchased injectors to replace the LL #8 and have bought them from these guys. I have spoken with them on the phone and they really appear to have a good shop. |
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Thanks for the tip! Hopefully I won't need them anytime soon, as I'm fairly certain I don't have the cackle problem - yet. I appreciate all the info on this though.
Edited by h2o_dog (06/22/02 11:30 PM) |
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Please define "cackle" problem....
Re: Please define "cackle" problem....
