Archives >> 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain (11/01-7/03)

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garyjohnson
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Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
4R100 Temp Sensor Port
#948003 - 12/03/02 08:59 AM

Hey Guys,
Up here from the 94-97 forum with a quick question. I have a friend with a 2001/4R100. We are going to install a trans temp gauge this weekend and need a port for the sensor. On my E4OD, there is a 1/8' NPT plug for the pressure port on the drivers side above the pan. This is where I connected my sensor. Does the 4R100 have the same plug?? Also, he has already purchased the sensor and says the probe protrudes through the threads about 1". Will this be TOO long to screw in the port??(if it has one)

Thanks in advance...Gary

SmokeyWrenModerator
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#948019 - 12/03/02 09:12 AM

Yep, right above the pan, left side, near the front of the tranny.

I've never looked at the probe real close, so I can't comment on how long it is.

Larry MModerator
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#948046 - 12/03/02 09:39 AM

In reply to:

Also, he has already purchased the sensor and says the probe protrudes through the threads about 1". Will this be TOO long to screw in the port??



You might want to review THIS ... even has pictures

garyjohnson
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Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#949150 - 12/03/02 09:54 PM


Thank you Gentleman,
The info posted will really help.

One more question. Is there a special trick to getting the A-Pillar cover off? (i.e. screws, snaps, etc..) We will need to remove the cover to install the pod mount.

Thanks again...Gary

PULLnROLL
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Loc: Utah
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#949830 - 12/04/02 10:39 AM

Gary,

Do not over tighten the temp sensor. It is a hollow brass sleeve that has a thermistor inside it. If you overtighten it (like I did) it will break off and you will have hell to pay to get it out. If you dont get it all out, you will have a nice $800 main solenoid bill to fix your tranny.

Also, on the A-Pillar, you don't actually remove it, you place the A-pillar pod over the top of the existing one. (At least that is what I did with my 2000 PSD)

Good luck

garyjohnson
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Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#950808 - 12/04/02 08:05 PM

PULLnROLL,

Thanks for the info. I will let the friend tighten the sensor. He says he is buying dinner if I help with the gauge install. If I were to break the sensor off in the tranny as you did, I'm sure dinner would be OFF! Therefore, I ain't taking no chances.

I looked at the A-Pillar cover today. The pod mount is just a single gauge mount and is about 10 inches long. It will be held to the A-Pillar cover with four 3/16ths push-in studs. I will need to remove the A-Pillar cover to drill the 4 holes required.(can't get to the back holes because of the windshield. Guess I could remove the windshield!! ) I would like to know exactly how the cover comes off as dinner could be a thing of the past if I break it.

Thanks..Gary

garyjohnson
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Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#951662 - 12/05/02 09:17 AM

Hey SmokeyWren,
I really need to know how this A-Pillar cover is removed. I would appreciate any help.

Gary


SmokeyWrenModerator
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#951774 - 12/05/02 10:29 AM

Sorry, I don't do installs. I pay the big bucks to DIS and have them do mine.

There is an install instruction page on DIS. Maybe it's in there? www.dieselpage.com

On edit: Yep. Here's what DIS says: "The factory pillar is held on by three clips, one in the center and one between the center and each end. These clips will release if the pillar is carefully pulled straight out, it may be difficult to completely remove the pillar so you may want to leave it on the vehicle and work around it."



Maroon Harpoon
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Reged: 03/18/01
Posts: 322
Loc: Centennial, CO
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#951782 - 12/05/02 10:38 AM

Gary:

Insert your fingers under the a-pillar cover at the top and pull straight out! Then do the bottom. Its just held in with clips...I held the new one over the old one while my bro drilled the holes for the plugs so it would be straight, then push them both back on.

MH

Jamie Contouris
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Reged: 05/29/99
Posts: 1098
Loc: Moyock, NC USA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#951786 - 12/05/02 10:40 AM

Smokey is correct but once you pull it off (straigth out) you will be able to maneuver to off completely without problems. With the clips the trick is to back out straight and not rock or twist them as they will snap off. They are the same clips used on the door sill moldings and most of the trim throughout the cab

gos
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#951818 - 12/05/02 10:59 AM

garyjohnson,

Or, if you would like to remove it without the risk of damage, remove the rubber door trim and look between the windshield post and the trim piece. You will see 3 mounting tabs each with a metal clip. Using a flat tipped screwdriver and starting at the top tap, push on the metal clip while pulling on the trim piece. Do this for the other 2 tabs and you have it. JS.

garyjohnson
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Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#952338 - 12/05/02 05:16 PM

Thanks guys,

That's what I was looking for!! With those directions, even ole fumble-fingered me should be able to get it off without breaking it.

Thanks agian...gary

PULLnROLL
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Posts: 207
Loc: Utah
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#952445 - 12/05/02 06:35 PM

Sorry Gary, I didnt remove mine so I can't offer any help. Good luck. Beware of the "wrench turn crunch". (When your buddy hears the crunch of brass breaking beneath his wrench)

garyjohnson
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Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#952707 - 12/05/02 09:06 PM

PULLnROLL,

After reading your post about the enormous expense incurred if you break the sensor, I have decided that I will take a nose clamp and ear plugs with me for the job. I'm sure if he does the "wrench turn crunch" thing, he will probably s**t (that's where the nose clamp comes in) and he has also been known to spew foul language like a sailor when he is upset (the earplugs). And yep, I'm also packing a bologna sandwich for dinner if this does happen.

Thanks again guys!! Y'all some purdy good help up here!!

Gary

B727capt
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Reged: 11/28/99
Posts: 138
Loc: Newnan, GA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#953295 - 12/06/02 08:17 AM

Actually it's not that hard to get the sensor out. Mine broke off and I found out later that the tips are not all the same size. Some are larger in diameter and bind on the side when you twist the sensor in. I called DIS and Randy told me this. I measured the brass tip when I got it out with dial calipers and it measured 319. The new one measured 315 and no binding. To get the broken piece out you drill a small hole in the center of the brass tip and then take a wood screw and screw it in the hole until it statrs to twist the brass tip. Then take plyers and pull the whole mess out. Works very well.

PULLnROLL
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Posts: 207
Loc: Utah
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#955339 - 12/07/02 08:24 PM

Ya, thats what I did too, must have missed something because the next day, dead master solenoid in the tranny and costed me $800. Better not over tighten.

garyjohnson
Member
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Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#955473 - 12/07/02 09:54 PM

Hey guys,
The gauge install went great!! No broken sensor, thanks to everyone here. I did manage to remove the A-Pillar cover after fiddling with it for about 10 minutes. Was able to get the clips to release, but couldn't maneuver it out. Finally figured out that if I pulled the black door seal out a little, I could then slide it to the left and out.

Dinner was very, very good! Fried shrimp platter!

The only problem that I have is, I couldn't figure out which fuse in the fuse panel controls the dash lights. I would like to connect it using a fuse tap to the cold side of the dash lights fuse, so that when I turn on the dash lights, dim or brighten the dash lights, the gauge light will respond accordingly. Any idea of what fuse number??
(for the time being, the gauge light is connected directly to the hot wire for the gauge. Light is on whenever the switch is on. Can't control brightness or dimness)


Thanks...Gary

cphilip
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Posts: 2001
Loc: Clemson SC USA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#955518 - 12/07/02 10:23 PM

You just stumbled on two of the reasons I am going with the X Monitor. One is no tranny port sensor install (which I have done before and found easy enough but..) and the other is it has its own brightness control so hooking up to switched wire is fine.

I think most people tap off the dimmer switch wire as the fuse itself is not were the Dimming occurs. It occurs in the variable Reostat of that Dimmer switch. I do not think there is any logic to taping off the fuse. Its just putting full power to the dimmer control. Your gonna have to tap it into the dimmer control itself. Otherwise how is it going to "dim" them? I think!

ahurley
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Reged: 09/26/02
Posts: 71
Loc: mich,
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#955536 - 12/07/02 10:42 PM

get a test light .i tapped into a plug under the dash .check for light switch power.if i was there id tell you what color it is but im at work.ill check back if i can tomarrow.

dmftoy1
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Posts: 3275
Loc: Lexington, IL
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#956161 - 12/08/02 03:05 PM

Mine is yellow. (Coming out of a connector mounted to the bottom of the steering column) There's a really good post somewhere in the Upgrades/aftermarket describing the color/locations for the various years. (That's where I found out for mine) It's a small wire though, so if you're using a scotch 3m T-Tap make sure you've got an 18-22 size. I think 14-16 is too big. JMHO.

Regards,
Dave

garyjohnson
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Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#957541 - 12/09/02 01:59 PM

Thanks guys,
I was just trying to find a fuse like my 95 has. "cphilip" - you're probably right about the rheostat being fused BEFORE it signals the dash lights. But, on my 95, it is fused after it goes through the rheostat but before it connects to the dash lights, therefore the dimmer works with the gauge lights. (see THIS. The bottom fuse tap is the light wire for the gauges and is connected to a 4 amp fuse.

I didn't find a fuse like this on the 01. Maybe I will do as you all have suggested and locate the correct wiring.

Thanks again...Gary

B727capt
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Reged: 11/28/99
Posts: 138
Loc: Newnan, GA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#959910 - 12/10/02 08:15 PM

I have done about 5 trucks for friends and I just pull the radio out and pull the plug off the back. Use a test light and one wire dims the radio display. It dims the test light. Then just splice into that wire and use it for the back ground lights. Never had any problems with this source. Bill

CAN_II
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Reged: 10/08/02
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas, Tx
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#960644 - 12/11/02 09:34 AM

I installed my sensor in the pressure port as well, during a monitored
test drive with a Ford trans. mechanic the temp read in the computer was 20* hotter than my gauge read. Either the gauge is right and the fluid temp. at the two different locations varies by 20* or my gauge is off,
just thought I would run that by you.


Larry MModerator
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#960660 - 12/11/02 09:45 AM

In reply to:

I installed my sensor in the pressure port as well, during a monitored
test drive with a Ford trans. mechanic the temp read in the computer was 20* hotter than my gauge read. Either the gauge is right and the fluid temp. at the two different locations varies by 20* or my gauge is off,



I see this same 15 to 20 deg higher temp on my AutoTap as I noted HERE and Mark K. indicated he thought it might be the gauge, but IMHO I just note it since I did calibrate my tranny temp gauge and at the time it was accurate. I'm probably wrong since Mark's knowledge of these puts me to shame, but up inside the tranny where the PCM is seeing the temps I would think would be hotter than the fluid in the pan.

JMVHO,

Larry

Mark Kovalsky
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Loc: Livonia, MI USA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#960741 - 12/11/02 10:43 AM

The transmission's temperature sensor is in the pan. It's on the solenoid body which is in the fluid that is in the pan.

Larry MModerator
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Posts: 5146
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#960817 - 12/11/02 11:36 AM

In reply to:

The transmission's temperature sensor is in the pan. It's on the solenoid body which is in the fluid that is in the pan



I understood it was in/on the solenoid body, but I was still think'n that the metal portions inside the tranny might be slightly warmer than the general fluid temp inside the pan like CAN II independent observation being the same as what I see, but then again "My name is often JACK" such as here and know even less than him

Larry

V8S4EVR
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Loc: Orlando, FL
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#960847 - 12/11/02 11:58 AM

Can someone run it by me again why it is bad to tee into the (hot) line from the trans to the cooler? It seems to me like that would be the hottest point in the fluid circuit, and would give you worst-case temp on the gauge. I have mine there, and from the stories about how tender that port is, I sure wouldn't change it.

Mark Kovalsky
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Posts: 3481
Loc: Livonia, MI USA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#961084 - 12/11/02 03:12 PM

There is nothing bad about putting the sender in the hot line. I just prefer to see the overall transmission temperature, not the spikes that happen when the torque converter unlocks. I have a better feel for what to do at what temperature with the pan temp compared to the hot line temp.

garyjohnson
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Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#962234 - 12/12/02 09:21 AM

Mark,
I have read several of your post on this forum and respect your opinions, so:
In your opinion, what would be the maximum temp that should not be exceeded for a sustained period of time?(sensor in the pressure port) The above mentioned '01 is about to make its first journey out west towing a 40 foot Travel Supreme 5ver. Will be grossing around 26,000 lbs. He very is concerned about high temps in the tranny (reason for installing the gauge). And, do you think that synthetic fluid would be a better choice for towing with this heavy payload?

Thanks in advance...Gary

CAN_II
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Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas, Tx
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#962311 - 12/12/02 10:26 AM

I have a clutch slippage problem that caused mine to get up to 280* at the pressure port location. The fluid did not burn and the pcm did not set a code or go into any type of protection mode.
The transmission won't last long operating like this every day but I did learn that if you hit 250* to 275* durring a hard pull up a long hill you won't burn up the tranny. Food for thought.



garyjohnson
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Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Frisco City, Alabama
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#962831 - 12/12/02 04:51 PM

I'm sorry guys, sometimes I type things and think later!
Although I specifically asked Mark for his opinion in the above post, I still value the opinions of others on this site. Any feedback from ANYONE on the max temps would be greatly appreciated.

Wow!!,CAN_II, Your tranny got pretty warm. I think I would have probably had a heart attack if I looked over at the gauge and it read 280.
I would have thought that 250 to 275 for a short period of time would be too warm. I guess that's the reason for the question. I really didn't know. Thanks

Gary


Larry MModerator
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Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#962852 - 12/12/02 05:02 PM

In reply to:

Any feedback from ANYONE on the max temps would be greatly appreciated



HERE are my observations. Some have also reported serious spikes during backing up trailer with a load on the engine, but while mine has spiked when backing up it only goes up like 20*F ... I've never experienced this serious spiking.

Larry

Mark Kovalsky
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Reged: 05/07/99
Posts: 3481
Loc: Livonia, MI USA
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#963049 - 12/12/02 07:26 PM

I would stop and let it cool if the temperature at the port ever hit 250F.

To cool it, idle in park or neutral. 1200-1500 RPM will cool it faster. Don't drive again until it is below 200. And NEVER shut the engine off when the transmission is very hot! That can really cause damage.

I do prefer synthetic fluids for high loads. It lubricates better and transfers heat better. Make sure to use a fluid that only has a MERCON rating, not MERCON V or a fluid that has both MERCON and MERCON V ratings. My personal favorite is Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.

Larry MModerator
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Reged: 06/19/01
Posts: 5146
Loc: Northern Va
Re: 4R100 Temp Sensor Port new
#963061 - 12/12/02 07:32 PM

In reply to:

To cool it, idle in park or neutral. 1200-1500 RPM will cool it faster. Don't drive again until it is below 200. And NEVER shut the engine off when the transmission is very hot! That can really cause damage.

I do prefer synthetic fluids for high loads. It lubricates better and transfers heat better. Make sure to use a fluid that only has a MERCON rating, not MERCON V or a fluid that has both MERCON and MERCON V ratings. My personal favorite is Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.



What else can I say o'trannyman . Great info on cooling down a hot tranny, can't remember seeing that before, but I have a lot of senior moments nowadays

Larry

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