Temporary Archives >> 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

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haul_n_horses2
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Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!!
#1471915 - 11/09/03 05:34 AM

It was an unusually cold day for early November here in Ann Arbor, 15* this morning. So I waited for the sun to warm things up a bit before going out to ride. Finally got these old bones moving and got my tack out to the truck. Crank her over and no start. Clouds of white smoke out the exhaust pipe. Repeat several times allowing the glow plugs about a minute to fire and then hit the starter. It turned over fine but no go. I did not hear a bunch of relays clicking so I figured the batteries should be okay. Checked them under the hood and still had the "green eye". Brought another vehicle over to jump the batteries anyway and same result. Called my son over to crank it over while I was under the hood. AHHa. No bear trap sound coming from the Stancor relay I put in a month ago. Normally when you turn the key on, there is a loud noise of the DC contactor (relay) closing. Nada! Got out the circuit tester and current was going to trigger the relay but nothing going to the GP. Argh!!! Fortunately, I had the old FoMoCo relay which only had about 6 months of use as a spare. A few minutes later the Stancor was replaced with the FoMoCo relay and she fired right up. First time. Now the Stancor is an industrial DC contactor rated for 200 amps continuous, 400 amps peak current. Uses silver alloys contacts and should last the life of the truck. It costs a little more than the NAPA but less than what Ford wants for a replacement. I know quite a few of you have used the Stancor part. Anybody else have this problem???

On edit: The Stancor contactor is rated for 600 amps peak current!

Edited by haul_n_horses2 (11/09/03 07:44 AM)

Brewmaster
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472105 - 11/09/03 10:59 AM

The first one I put on went about two months. I live here in central CA and it was warm at the time so I'm not quite sure at what point it quit I noticed it when I was up in the mountains camping. I had a heck of a time starting it. The primary side (coil side) went open. I had bought mine from Allied I called them and they told me they didn't warranty them but gave me White Industries phone number and they were real helpful sent me another one no problem. They just asked to not return the old one it makes more paper work than it's worth to them. The new one has been working fine so far I now pay more attention to my volt guage on start up.

LarryMModerator
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472280 - 11/09/03 01:42 PM

Paul,

Is there a set of specs on that relay for the environment it is used in. I wonder if heat/vibration/moisture might have an effect. However, I think a lot of the 94-97 folks have used a variety of GPRs w/o significant problems. Not sure about the particular model you got. There were a bunch of GPR threads some time ago that I "stuffed" into "My little secrets" thread that is on page two of the Van forum. Might want to glance thru some of those.

ON EDIT HERE are some of the spec for that relay and a couple of notes that might be of some concern.

1. Max Op temp 149*F (does get warm on top of the engine)
2. High vibration is evidently some that can be custom designed in
3. Caution must be used in coil selection for use in 12 volt systems where battery charging may expose coil to continuous higher than rated voltage. (though our GPs stayed on for a while after vehicle start and if so then you might be putting 14.4 V or so on that 12V solenoid coil. )

Not sure if these limitations might apply, but might be worth looking into ... I'm not a relay expert, so just kind of thinking outloud here some and throwing straw into the wind so to speak

Larry

Edited by Larry M (11/09/03 02:55 PM)

FMTRVT
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472468 - 11/09/03 04:17 PM

It would also be interesting to see how much pitting there is on the contacts due to the inductive breaking.

Paul,

All connections good and tight when you removed them?

LarryMModerator
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472493 - 11/09/03 04:33 PM

Quote:

It would also be interesting to see how much pitting there is on the contacts due to the inductive breaking.





I think I read somewhere that the Motorcraft GPR is filled with nitrogen to reduce arcing and pitting ... what seems like it should be simple on these dang things can become mind boggling at times ... or at least we can make them appear that way thru either our ignorance or passion to improve and use something better

Larry

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472703 - 11/09/03 07:28 PM

If they do not want it back, I will dissect it. All connections were tight. Good current to the contact to activate the relay (when the key was turned on) and good current to the relay from the battery. I will ask them about the heat and vibration issues. The label on the contactor says "White-Rodgers/RBM Type 586-105111-3".

Brewmaster
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472741 - 11/09/03 07:54 PM

When I talked to them at White Rogers Industries the person told me that they have less than 1% failure. From the amount of people I've heard say they've had problems I'm sure it's over 1% on this site. So if they were telling the truth at White Rogers then I'd think there may be a problem using it on a engine that shakes and gets hotter than 149*. I don't think its a contact problem I think it's a coil problem.
Just my .02

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472778 - 11/09/03 08:19 PM

At the bottom of this page is a section devoted to the contactors and a page on how to select the correct contactor. The two issues that seem germane are engine vibration "Avoid mounting a D.C. contactor directly on an engine block or on extensions of an engine block." Also "Caution must be used in coil selection for use in 12 volt systems where battery charging may be exposed to continuous higher than rated voltage. Stancor offers some parts with 15 volt coils for this type of application." In this case the 586-903. I will contact them tomorrow.

Brewmaster
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472855 - 11/09/03 09:05 PM

The 15 volt contactor would certainly be well within it's limits. If it is a voltage problem then the problems should be non existant with the 15 volt, but the coil does show 11 more ohms of resistance not sure how many amps it will need to pull it down. I've not measured the voltage to the input side of the contactor coil but with the engine running (at least on my truck) the volt guage isn't much above 12 volts at least by the location of the volt needle. Looking at the guage it looks like it would be below 12 volts with the engine running. I should for kicks find out what the voltage is on the input of the contactor coil before it cycles off. After it's off it really shouldn't matter being as there is no amperage flow. I keep wondering if it's not vibration or temp related to the failures. I know my coil was open there was nothing at all from small post to small post.

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1472969 - 11/09/03 10:07 PM

Quote:

If they do not want it back, I will dissect it.




And when you do, I bet it looks like mine: Bad Stancor, Bad!

Forget whether they can stand being hooked to an engine, mine didn't make it through UPS. This was just plain made badly (or should I say "hecho" badly...en Mexico...)

Duncan

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473355 - 11/10/03 06:29 AM

So Duncan are you running a Stancor with the 12 volt coil now? How long has it held up for you?

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473375 - 11/10/03 07:17 AM

Quote:

So Duncan are you running a Stancor with the 12 volt coil now? How long has it held up for you?




It didn't hold up for me at all - it was intermittent from the moment I installed it, for the reason you see in those photos. I really don't have time to be wrenching under my hood every day to make up for Stancor's lack of quality control, so I bought the proper relay from my local International dealer and got on with life. If they'd like to start building their products properly and send me a new one, I'd be more than happy to try it 60,000 miles from now when the International one goes again.

Duncan

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473392 - 11/10/03 07:48 AM

That is exactly why I bought the Stancor. It came highly recommended on this site, it was supposed to be more reliable. My first GPR did not last a year. The replacement was working fine for several months but with the cold season coming, I put in an aftermarket part that was supposed to be more reliable. NOT! This morning the wind chill was -5º F. I do not enjoy working under the hood in those kind of temperatures. Duncan, do you have the International part number for the GPR or how about the Ford part number?

uloadit
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473399 - 11/10/03 07:52 AM

what is a gp relay???

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473407 - 11/10/03 08:01 AM

Quote:

That is exactly why I bought the Stancor. It came highly recommended on this site, it was supposed to be more reliable.




And by all rights it should be... except Stancor is building them sloppily, and doesn't want the old ones back to find out what the problem is. I believe shoebear forwarded them the link to my picture, but I've not heard any result from that.


Quote:

Duncan, do you have the International part number for the GPR or how about the Ford part number?




Don't buy it from Ford, unless you enjoy paying a lot more money for the exact same part! If you have no International dealer anywhere around, perhaps Ford would be a lesser of two evils, though. I just went in to International and told them I needed a glow plug relay for a '97 Powerstroke. They handed me the one with the pigtail adapter (which I removed). It's possible there's another number for one that doesn't come with that, but my recollection is that the one with the adapter is actually cheaper! I'll get the number for you when I get home tonight, but someone else will probably come up with it before then.

Duncan

4cstr
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473411 - 11/10/03 08:03 AM

Quote:

what is a gp relay???




glow plug relay.

Dave

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473413 - 11/10/03 08:04 AM

GPR is a glow plug relay. It has a lot of current going through it to heat up the cylinders prior to starting. The Ford units have a habit of failing when you need them most. When the first of mine was failing, I would use my remote starter and it would not start after multiple attempts. I had hoped that the Stancor would be more reliable, but this history of failures had not been well publicized in these forums. Now I know better. If it has difficulty starting at 20º, imagine how well it would work after a weekend snowmobiling up North where it might be -20º. It would not have a chance.

Edited by haul_n_horses2 (11/10/03 08:10 AM)

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473463 - 11/10/03 08:40 AM

Quote:

If it has difficulty starting at 20º, imagine how well it would work after a weekend snowmobiling up North where it might be -20º. It would not have a chance.




Your truck will simply not start without glowplugs at those temps (unless you use the block heater.)

When the stock relays die, they usually do so gradually. Sometimes you hit a better spot on the burned-up contact plate, and the truck will grudgingly start. The Stancor contactors shouldn't have that problem, which was the whole point. They're built to handle the load. Sadly, the coil side, the absolutely easiest part of that technology to get right, is assembled badly and they just stop working. So having a broken Stancor is exactly like having no glow plugs at all.

Duncan

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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473477 - 11/10/03 08:56 AM

Quote:

That is exactly why I bought the Stancor. It came highly recommended on this site, it was supposed to be more reliable. My first GPR did not last a year. The replacement was working fine for several months but with the cold season coming, I put in an aftermarket part that was supposed to be more reliable. NOT! This morning the wind chill was -5º F. I do not enjoy working under the hood in those kind of temperatures. Duncan, do you have the International part number for the GPR or how about the Ford part number?




Here are a couple of links discussing the International GPR

HERE

HERE

and

HERE

Also, looks like there might be a couple different IH GPR #'s and I have no idea what is what ... but guess I need to look at this closer since mine is original and is now going thru it's third winter

Larry

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473488 - 11/10/03 09:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If it has difficulty starting at 20º, imagine how well it would work after a weekend snowmobiling up North where it might be -20º. It would not have a chance.




Your truck will simply not start without glowplugs at those temps (unless you use the block heater.)

When the stock relays die, they usually do so gradually. Sometimes you hit a better spot on the burned-up contact plate, and the truck will grudgingly start. The Stancor contactors shouldn't have that problem, which was the whole point. They're built to handle the load. Sadly, the coil side, the absolutely easiest part of that technology to get right, is assembled badly and they just stop working. So having a broken Stancor is exactly like having no glow plugs at all.

Duncan


Exactly. And the likelihood of plugging in in some remote snowmobiling site is nil.

E350PSD
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473559 - 11/10/03 09:57 AM

Quote:

I think I read somewhere that the Motorcraft GPR is filled with nitrogen to reduce arcing and pitting




When my GPR died I dissected it to determine what happened. The device is pretty straightforward. Drill out the 4 rivets and it falls apart. There is a gasket to help keep moisture out but no way could it seal good enough to maintain a nitrogen fill. The contacts are a copper looking alloy with no special coatings to prevent arcing or pitting.

My GPR still clicked-in but had a high resistance across the GP terminals. Once apart there was some pitting on the contacts, but it was not apparent if the solenoid plunger was actuating completely or if a pit was preventing completion of the circuit.

Anyway, the new GPR has been operating correctly for the last year. One thing nice about the CA PCM code is it lights the SES if either the GPR or IHR are not functioning.

For those that want to know the GPR coil resistance of my old and new relays were 2.52 and 2.58 ohms, respectively using a HP 6 ½ digit DMM (four wire).

I now carry starting fluid with me just in case I get stranded. I know its not recommended and blah, blah, blah, but it saved my ass when my GPR quit working on me. If you decide to use a starting fluid you must make sure both the GP & IH ARE NOT ON before you squirt it into the intake and crank. This can be done by turning the ignition on for a few minutes first. The PCM turns the GPR & IHR off after 2 minutes. Then you can squirt and crank. Remember, not recommended unless you know what you’re doing and in a jam!

ToddMeister
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473577 - 11/10/03 10:12 AM

Here's a tip:

You can use jumper cables to jump across the two large terminals on the GPR in the event of GPR failure. Attach the jumper cable (using both hot side clamps, for example,) Get in the truck and start it up. Go back and remove the jumper cable. At least you are not stranded out in the boonies...


haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473617 - 11/10/03 10:33 AM

Yeah, I contemplated shorting the relay with a screwdriver but I was a bit concerned about the current flowing through it and decided to swap it out. The jumper cable is an excellent idea.

Brewmaster
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473674 - 11/10/03 11:04 AM

Wish I'd of had my cables with me camping it would of saved the tip of my needle nose pliers when my first Stancor went bad.

Well the only good thing to come of this is that the word will be out that the Stancors aren't the fool proof answer we thought they might be. A shame because the only problem whith them apparently is quality control.

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473783 - 11/10/03 12:22 PM

I called Stancor this morning and they said to go through Allied. Contacted Allied and gave them my invoice number. They said they had product in stock and would Fax me return shipping authorization and ship another contactor. Still I will have to pay the shipping for a second unit, only $5.00 but still............

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473795 - 11/10/03 12:28 PM

Quote:

I called Stancor this morning and they said to go through Allied. Contacted Allied and gave them my invoice number. They said they had product in stock and would Fax me return shipping authorization and ship another contactor. Still I will have to pay the shipping for a second unit, only $5.00 but still............




That's odd, the last person who contacted Allied was told to go through Stancor (well, White-Rogers or whoever)!

Duncan

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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473852 - 11/10/03 01:07 PM

OK, so I want to get a spare GPR for a 2001. What are the part numbers from NAPA or International?

haul_n_horses2
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473859 - 11/10/03 01:13 PM

Larry's links to old posts have the numbers you want.

LarryMModerator
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1473878 - 11/10/03 01:24 PM

Quote:

Larry's links to old posts have the numbers you want.




Also, if you do a search in the 94-97 archived forums using the search words "International and GPR" using the "And" search option for all dates you will get a lot of threads and in one Dave1957 describes as I remember with part numbers a IH GPR mod kit that only allows the GPR relay to energize at a certain coolant temp. Not sure how ours operates, but there is a grunch of GPR info in the 11/01 to 7/03 94-97 forum since this was a big topic last winter in that forum when they were having a bunch going bad when the weather turned cold. As I posted previously, I have a lot, but probably not all in "My little secrets" thread in the Van forum.

Larry

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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1474286 - 11/10/03 05:31 PM

Guess I should mention that the GPR is not accessible on the vans. No way can you jump the terminals. To replace the GPR on the van is tricky and requires removing the air filter assembly and alternator. Then you can barely get your hand on it. This is something that you don’t want to do on the road – especially when it cold.

That’s why I carry the starting fluid. Otherwise, on a truck I would just carry a spare or a way to jump the terminals. No reason to risk the starting fluid!


butch cassidy
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1474327 - 11/10/03 05:56 PM

Haul-n- Horses,

My gpr gave out about 6 months ago, I replaced it woth the Napa gpr, so far so good. If this gpr gives out, I'm thinking about remote mounting on the fender or fire wall to minimize heat and vibration issues to the new unit, thus, hopefully extending the life of the gpr.

Just my 2 cents,

Butch Cassidy

LarryMModerator
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1474362 - 11/10/03 06:14 PM

Quote:

Haul-n- Horses,

My gpr gave out about 6 months ago, I replaced it woth the Napa gpr, so far so good. If this gpr gives out, I'm thinking about remote mounting on the fender or fire wall to minimize heat and vibration issues to the new unit, thus, hopefully extending the life of the gpr.

Just my 2 cents,

Butch Cassidy




Hmmmm, as a Van owner that remote idea has the ole wheels turning Also, is there a way to install somekind of remote indicator light on each glow plug, maybe on a rotary switch so you could functionally check if each glow plug was actually operational. I hate not knowing electrically what is or isn't working in my vehicle. Where are all our smart EE's ... it would be great to have some kind of inductive pickup maybe to each glow plug calibrated to even determine how many amps are actually going to each glow plug. whrrrr, whrrrr go the wheels

Larry

frobozz
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1474413 - 11/10/03 06:38 PM

OK, the one I bought that had the pigtail adapter on it (i.e. it should work for all year trucks) was International part number 1826634C94

Duncan

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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1474582 - 11/10/03 08:05 PM

Quote:

it would be great to have some kind of inductive pickup maybe to each glow plug calibrated to even determine how many amps are actually going to each glow plug.




An inductive pick-up won’t work on a DC circuit. You could use a HALL effect circuit – very expensive - or a shunt resistor.

On CA vehicles the PCM can detect any single GP not working or when the relay has failed. The SES lights up and related codes get set. Apparently all the hardware to do this is there (shunt resistors) for all vehicles, but only CA vehicles incorporate the PCM code to make it work.

You could easily put a voltmeter across the existing shunts (one for each bank or 4 glow plugs) and monitor GP current. You won’t get individual current flow but rather flow for each bank. However, one could determine if all are working or 1 or more has failed for each bank.

These shunt resistors (2) are between the GPR and glow plugs. They are actually metal strips. I think on newer vehicles, 01’ and later, the GPR and IHR are combine into a solid-state module and the shunt resistors or not accessible. Maybe the newer modules are less prone to problems.

Might want to look under your hood, way back behind to alternator, and see if you have the newer solid-state module or 2 separate relays?


sduncan
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1475123 - 11/10/03 11:45 PM

OK, the other day the SES light came on so I plugged the SCMT in and got codes for the glow plug circuits on cyls 2,4,6,& 8. At the diesel parts store today I asked the guys and they agreed with me that the GPR was most likely the problem . So I bought a Delphi GPR thats supposed to fit my '01 for $50.00. It kinda looks like an old Ford starter solenoid w/ 2 large posts and 2 smaller posts. Now I see that I could've done better at the International dealer. I got a price of $24.00 from them for part number 1834646C1. This number came from an earlier thread mentioned above. Waddaya think? Is the $50 Delphi item sound familiar or is the Int'l part number the correct one? Did I assume correctly that the GPR is the culprit for the codes? This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. What the hell happened to ONE part number for the same part instead of 10 numbers for the same thing?!? I hear a beer calling me! Thanks for any help!!

E350PSD
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Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1475419 - 11/11/03 07:04 AM

Quote:

OK, the other day the SES light came on so I plugged the SCMT in and got codes for the glow plug circuits on cyls 2,4,6,& 8.




This indicates only a problem with the left bank.

Quote:

Did I assume correctly that the GPR is the culprit for the codes? This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts.




The GPR operates both banks simultaneous. Since no codes were thrown for the right bank, cyls 1,3,5 & 7, the PCM believes these GPs are working suggesting the GPR must also be working.

I would look closely at the metal strip between the GPR and wire bundle going to the left bank glow plugs. This is the shunt resistor that allows the PCM to monitor current to them. All the nuts/screws/wires must be tight and clean. If you have a DMM measure across the shunt, GPR stud to wire bundle, and verify a reading very close to zero ohms (the shunt resistor is somewhere around 0.01 ohms as I recall). There should be 3 wires attached to the shunts that go off to the PCM. The one for the left bank may have come off or loosened.

If these connections are good you must have 4 failed GPs or the wires running to them have opened – not too likely but could happen.


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NAPA GPR new
#1475479 - 11/11/03 08:10 AM

Installed NAPA #GPR109 glow plug relay in my 1999 PSD.
I only have one relay next to the fuel bowl/psssenger side.
Cost $22.00.
You will need to turn it 1/4 turn clockwise when you install it so the wires line up with the terminals. This lets you bolt it down with one of the two stud/nuts which is enough. The red power wire is pretty fixed inside the loom and doesn't allow for any movement and a possible relocation of the wires.

If you ask NAPA for the GPR for this truck they will try and sell you a #GPR110 which is $72.00. Looks like you pay for the mounting base plate to be turned to match the OEM relay. $50.00 bucks??? I just turned mine and saved the fifty.

sduncan
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Reged: 03/21/01
Posts: 373
Loc: Bakersfield,Ca.
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1476123 - 11/11/03 02:56 PM

Well, I tried your suggestions, but I could not locat the metal shunt that you mentioned. I have a relay with wiring that goes to an aluminum colored module with two plug ins for wiring. My truck is an '01 so I guess this is the module that you mentioned earlier for the 01 and later trucks. Also, I cleared the codes again and just drove the truck. No new codes have appeard yet. And I noticed that after clearing the codes and before starting the truck I got 5 short "tones" then 1 long "tone", the "wait to start" light went out and the truck fired right up. This is how it normally acted before I started getting the SES light. With the SES light on, I get 3 or 4 short "tones" and thats it. So now that I'm completely confused are there any more things to look at or check. I hate this electrical stuff. Give me parts, gears ,suspension or the like any time.

E350PSD
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Reged: 04/06/02
Posts: 298
Loc: NW AR
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1476337 - 11/11/03 05:24 PM

Sorry it didn’t help. I guess there are differences between van, truck or year of mfg?

On the vans priors to 3Q 2000 there are 2 relays – one for the glow plugs and the other for the intake heaters. Afterwards 3Q 2000 they went to a sold-state module that replaces both relays.

LarryMModerator
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Posts: 9550
Loc: N. Va .. 2 USN FA-18 E/F sons
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1476355 - 11/11/03 05:37 PM

Quote:

On the vans priors to 3Q 2000 there are 2 relays – one for the glow plugs and the other for the intake heaters. Afterwards 3Q 2000 they went to a sold-state module that replaces both relays.




Well fiddle sticks ... guess I need to tear in there and sight this beast and confirm what my non-left coast 01 has ... Oh well it's time for a fuel filter change anyway after this upcoming final towing trip.

BTW Rob, You can or at least I have been able to extract that resonator w/o removing half the engine. It's tight and you need to twist and turn it some and press it up against the insulation, but I've actually held that in my hands outside the engine compartment. Can't remember exactly how I twisted or turned it to get it out tho


Larry

haul_n_horses2
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Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 3752
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1534449 - 12/15/03 08:55 AM

Just to update this thread a bit:
This past weekend the stock FoMoCo GPR died after being back in service just a little more than one month. It was just one month ago that my Stancor contactor died and I put the stock GPR back in. Total time in service about 7 months. Of course once again it was 15º F and I was towing horses to a horse show. Truck ran fine with no starting problems. The next morning there was 1-2" of fresh snow and I am up at the crack of dawn to feed with my daughter. Turn the key and we turn the engine over and there are clouds of white smoke. No ignition repeat several times. Nada. Fortunately, my wife was going out at the same hour so daughter went with mom to tend the horses and I searched for the jumper cables. Per the tip in this thread, I hooked one end up to the terminal on the GPR for the GP and the other directly to the battery. I could tell the current was flowing because the cable was warming up. 30 seconds and I went in and turned the engine over. Fired right up. Stancor (via Allied Electronics) had sent me a replacement contactor but I did not have the time to install it. Went to the show and took care of the barn chores before returning to the garage and putting the contactor in. No problems the rest of the weekend. Moral of the story:
1. Carry those booster cables to bypass the GPR if it fails to start on a cold morning.
2. Plan on routinely changing the GPR every 6 months!

Edited by haul_n_horses2 (12/15/03 08:57 AM)

LoganWildman
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 74
Loc: Logansport, IN
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1534979 - 12/15/03 03:07 PM

Up until about 8 years ago or so, My home town was the HQ for the entire Stancor / Steveco product line. For about 1 year, I was the Product engineer for the 586 line and Prior to that did all kinds of testing on them, from vibration to high ambient temp testing. Bottom line was the things worked well with an almost non existant failure rate. Then they closed our plant and moved most of the production to Mexico, and I think the quality of the product suffered, mainly because that plant had a high turn over rate.

I don't know what the current requirements for the Glow plugs are, but I wouldn't be afraid to look at the 124 series solenoids from White Rodgers. These things only have a 100 amp rating with a 400 amp inrush, but they have been proven to handle loads in 12v winches up to 12000 lb ratings. I personally tested them on a 6000lb winch with an amp meter wired in and documented steady state current draws well inexcess of 100 amps, with inrush closing in on 600 amps. And as an added bonus, they are significantly cheaper.

haul_n_horses2
Member
Member # 21227
Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 3752
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1536192 - 12/16/03 07:09 AM

LW, Can you elaborate on the differences in design or construction (QC) that would make the 124 series a viable option compared to the 586 series. Your inside knowledge, even if dated, would be valuable to these forum members. I am tired of changing these out. Haul'n

E350PSD
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Reged: 04/06/02
Posts: 298
Loc: NW AR
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1536205 - 12/16/03 07:40 AM

The glow plug circuit draws about 100 to 110 amps. A 100-amp rating would not do it!

When my GPR goes out again (guaranteed) I’m planning to replace it with on of these: EV200

It’s slightly bigger than the stock part but should fit without too much effort. It cost around $89 but should last.

Changing out the GPR in a van is a tough job and is not something I want to be doing ever again.


LoganWildman
Member
Member # 32365
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 74
Loc: Logansport, IN
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1538607 - 12/17/03 12:01 PM

If the glow plugs are only drawing 100-110 amps, then I personally wouldn't be afraid to install a 124 series instead of a 586.

On the construction, well, if memory serves me correctly, the 586 and a larger (stronger)coil design, and has a contact bar that is made up of a plated copper (I think) and had contacts that were made from silver cadmium oxide. The 124 is simular but doesn't have quite as big of contact or coil and uses different return springs.

When I was there, the 586 was used extensively in the golf cart industry for its ability to handle high current for long periods of time, and the 124 was used extensively in the automotive winch industry for its ability to handle the current loads placed on it but at durations shorter than a golf cart.

BigDaddyT
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Reged: 03/05/03
Posts: 2434
Loc: Eagle River,Alaska
Re: Stancor 586-902 GP Relay Died In One Months Use!!!! new
#1538635 - 12/17/03 12:22 PM

Ive used a screw driver to carry several hundred amps. The handle melted and I got a nice smell of burned flesh to boot.

Now I been reading up on gpr relays for information in another discussion. Delphi has made some good stuff and the 50 dollars might be money well spent. If you spend 50 and do it once. Its better than spending 25 3 or 4 times. Not to mention the saved time. I have a feeling that delphis relay will be very reliable.

They have deleted the thread(too bad I didnt get to save the info on the glow plugs). I think it was over 140 amps. I have found references of the initial draw being over 300 amps. That is a hostile environment for a relay. Dont be too upset that they do go bad. No relay likes to pass that much juice.

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