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I just got an e-mail from a diesel vendor advertising the following: THIS IS A FACTORY FORD UPGRADE COMPLETE AIR BOX ASSEMBLY, NEW FILTER, BATTER TRAY, AND INSULATION COMES WITH STEP BY STEP DIRECTIONS FORD INTAKE UPGRADE 1999-2002 POWERSTROKE THIS IS A FACTORY FORD UPGRADE This is from shopdiesel.com. Anyone know what this is intended to do and why we would or would not want to invest $200+ in this? I searched the forums and the archives and came up empty. Sorry if I missed a posting on this. Paul |
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Need? The package you are referring to is the Ford Severe Duty AIS. It was designed for severe conditions. So at first take you would not think that most of us would need it. But given the "fact" that the stock air box is known to provide a poor seal and that lots of problems resulting from filter bypass (air leaking around the filter) have been documented alot of folks around here have elected to install the upgrade just solve this problem. Its not a "performance" part. Several members have posted data that does not show significant improvement of boost or hp/tq. Its just a good filter assembly with a very robust filter element. I have one. It was easy to install and I like it. It will not invalidate your warranty. hth, Scott |
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To decide if you need one.. Have an oil analysis done to indicate what your silicon levels are. If they are high, it may be worth the money. If they are low, I would not bother. |
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Nrts, do you know if there is any increase in the air flow with the new filter over the old stock filter? 
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considering the restriction rates are higher, I would expect less flow. |
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Quote: I do not know. Others have said that the AIS is not a performance enhancement and that the Tymar, K&N etc provide more air per unit time. But its just anecdotal. Haven't seen any data on that. |
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Here is a link to the thread Pretty cool looking setup but $200.00 worth  That's up to the person. |
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"considering the restriction rates are higher, I would expect less flow". SPDIESEL, any data on that? It is competition for your open style intake, isn't it? I changed my stock box to a TYMAR. Not to increse flow but to decrease leakage in the stock box top. Retired the TYMAR, didn't like the open air intake sounds and the turbo whine hurt my wifes ears. For my usage the truck didn't run any better with the TYMAR, but it ran no worse and sealed well on the round filter end. Put the new AIS box on, truck runs as good, no better no worse. But, the seal is excellent, no more leakage. IMO, since I have had all three types of intakes, the new AIS is good for most users, stock. If you want a good seal this is the one for that application. If you are running chipped, exhausts or towing and expect high EGT, get a TYMAR or SPDIESEL open type. Some stock boxes may seal better than mine did. Check yours with some prussian blue dye if it seals keep the 200 bucks in your pocket to buy gages. |
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With 3 times the filtering area than stock I don't see how it could pose a greater restriction. |
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Restrect air is not even a facter with this system I hear. It's the air box off of the new 6.0 ford. I beleave it flows 200 more cfm than are stock air boxes and is soposibly better than an airaid, or k&n. Theirs alot of guys up here in Montana buying them and getting rid of all the other intake systems. But they dont make an aftermarket filter yet for the ford one so the filter price is pretty high. They say you can 15000 miles before you have to change the filter. I think I'll stay with my aftermarket system. Cant see a factory ford part being high performance. But thats my 2 bits. |
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Quote: It's basically the same filter as on the 6.0L, but obviously they had to make it for the 7.3L trucks, they didn't just take the 6.0L parts as-is. (Does anyone know if the filter core is the same? I believe it is not.) The official word from Ford on the 6.0L filter change was originally 15K miles, but now they say "change it when the filter minder tells you to" which is presumably way more than 15K for most people. This may help offset the increased cost of the filter core. It may help your disbelief at a factory Ford part being high performance to know that it's just something they bought from Donaldson! They didn't design it themselves. So I can believe it's high performance.... Duncan |
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Paul , I did not get a chance to finnish my first reply (work got in the way  ) (were did my reply go  ?). I started to write that the truck dealer minuteman ford was having a special on that system . They had the power stroke 6.0l trailer in their lot Wednesday and I had a chance to stop by when I was picking up some parts . Comments from the sales reps stated positive gains from the system yet non were posted . I installed one in my truck last week and noticed that the turbo sounds as if it is spooling up quicker and the wife and I notice a slight torque increase when on the power. I also noticed that it seals positively . removal of the filter is a bit restricked due to interferance with the body work . And the fact that I paid $20 more than there special price did not impress me  . with the races this weekend maybe the power stroke trailer is nearby ? Peter |
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The two AIS filters 6.0 & 7.3 are the same but different. The same Donaldson Powercore technology but different shape and design. 
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I'm replying based on this thread and a PM I recently got. I've now moved over to a 6.0, but during the last months of 7.3 ownership I ended up with a fair amount of discussions with service techs and engineers about this subject. If I still had my 7.3 there are one of two things I would do: Get a Tymar type setup; or due to noise get the AIS. If you think $200 is a lot of money, try a replacement short block and turbo due to a dusted motor. The 7.3 has way too many dusted motors in the field for my tastes, mostly due to either the air box lid not fitting properly, or aftermarket filters. Due to the intake design of the 7.3, it appears that cylinders 5 and 7 get most of the dirt when it comes in, due to the flow through the ducting. Dirt likes to go in a straight line due to momentum, so the dirt is not distributed evenly between cylinders. When it happens, 5 and 7 get a lot. For those that don't think diesel, keep in mind it always flows as much air as the rpm and turbo boost allows. It's not like a gas motor that is air flow throttled. A lot of air moves through this motor, and so can a lot of dirt. Go back and carefully read past posts by Robyn and others on the filter issues and dirt intrusion. This is a way under stressed situation for this (IMO) poorly designed Ford airbox. If you are going to keep the OE box, you need to be very, very careful. If you look carefully at the oil analysis spreadsheet, look at the silicon level for those using aftermarket filters, and those using Tymar. In most applications, I would be trying for single digits with 5k or less oil changes after the initial silicon adhesive contamination levels have been washed out. |
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Thank you all for your quick responses. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I see that a search for "AIS" would have told me everything I wanted to know. The e-mailed ad I got never mentioned that acronym and I just glanced right over those posts. Given the investement I have made in this truck, I am going to spend the extra money and do the conversion. I can order the kit from the west coast as detailed in the posts and pay $198 or I can get it locally for just under $225 including tax. I may go local so that I can get the kit in time to take it to Cape Cod and install it while on vacation. Then it will be time to give the Zaino Bros treatment to the truck! Paul |
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Quote: Ahh Zaino! Love that stuff. Been doing a little at a time on mine when I can. So far got one fender done. Back on topic, what is the signifigance of silicone in the oil? I have about 3500 miles before my next change before I can get the oil analized. I just got the truck a little over a month ago and changed the oil 2 days before I got the blackstone kit. |
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Not silicone but silicon, as in dirt. If you are well past the break in miles silicon reflects dirt aspirated by the turbo and contaminating the oil. Leads to accelerated wear. |
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Oh duh, ok now it makes sense. I work with electronics every day, you would think I would know the difference between silicone and silicon. |
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Hold your horses there ...... From the Blackstone comments section of the Oil Analysis Spreadsheet. A001 5k analysis: High wear, silicon and fuel dilution are all common finds in new engines such as yours. The high wear is due to break-in of new parts. Silicon is from sealers and sand casted parts. Fuel dilution is present because the rings have not had a chance to ....... A002 1k analysis: High wear, silicon and fuel dilution are all common finds in new engines such as yours. The high wear is due to break-in of new parts. Silicon is from sealers and sand casted parts. Fuel dilution is present because the rings have not had a chance to .......... My comment was about the sealers. On the 7.3L, silicone sealer was used on the oil pan, while on the 6.0L it is used on the front cover. While this silicon may all be sand from the casting process, Blackstone does repeatedly mention it with the silicone sealers as well. I just don't know if the spectro picks it up as such. ACD, Ya gotta Zaino the entire truck, man. Otherwise it doesn't know ya love it. Don't forget the clay. |
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Quote: I have seen this comment several times from the same source. In one of the original threads, I believe it was jcbrown ??, performed his own turbo boost measurements and later dyno tests. The boosts measuremnets were taken with a stock, K&N, other, and then the AIS. "His" measurements showed an improvement for the AIS over the other filters that were in his test. His dyno test showed no horsepower or torque increases but it did show that the maximums were reached at 100 and 200 higher rpms, respectively. You can search through the archives for the exact details. Since he is the only person that I have seen who has gone to the trouble to perform any testing, I would give his results some weight. I am not sure of his affiliations but I am sure that the author of the quote above sells an alternative to the AIS. |
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Today was the first time I put mine on the highway for any length of time since installing the AIS, I won't have an opinion on the filtering for awhile, but it more than cut the turbo whine in half on my early 99, this is something I'm sure the newer ford filter boxes would have done as well, but I wasn't expecting it to be that much of a drop. So if the filtering is the same, I would consider the thing worth the money just for the noise abatement.
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Wray, you say it cut noise in half on your early 99?? What were you using previously? I know its not the purpose of this box but still the noise is bad on early 99's. I had an open K&N but switched back to the stock airbox after towing only a 2000lb load made conversation difficult. Now after towing 6000lb even the stock airbox (w/ TAG no less) is too loud. If you say the noise is cut in half FROM STOCK AIRBOX than I'm real impressed and want one! Jerry |
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Jerry, it cut the turbo whine down that much. In my 99 that is the main noise you hear at 70 or so. If you look at an early 99 air box, the noise comes down the tube straight from the turb, more or less through the filter, then out the other side of the airbox directly into the fender. This is pretty much a straight line and there's no angles to baffle the noise, I also think the fender echoes the whine alot so it gets back to the cab easier. But the new airbox is designed like the newer boxes in the way the air flows, that's imho why none of the newer 7.3's have that awful whine (that I thought was cool when I got the truck back in may of 98) 
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Perfect, thank you! <--- adds to wish list! |
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Hello Folks, Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jordan Flagstad, I am a Senior Automotive Engineer at Donaldson Company in Bloomington, MN. Donaldson designed and manufactures the new AIS for the Ford 7.3 liter Turbo Diesel pickups that looks to be the focus of discussion along this thread and a couple others in this forum. I was asked to join this forum to act as a technical laison (Talk Shop) with you folks concerning the new AIS for the 7.3 liter Power Stroke. I must say, I graciously accepted this assignment as being a turbo diesel pickup owner myself I think I share a lot of interests here.OK, enough about me....Let's talk about this new AIS. With this new system, you are putting "Big Rig" performance under the hood of your pickup. This new system offers 3x more dust load, lower restriction and newer technology than the original system. Some of the concerns / questions I have read in this forum are: * Is the restriction of this new AIS higher than the standard system? The answer to this is no, the new systems restriction numbers are considerably lower than the standard system. * Does this system provide a longer service life than the standard system? Yes, the new AIS has a service life on the order of 3 times the dust loading capacity of the standard system. * What is the filtering efficiency of the new AIS? The filtering efficiency of the new AIS is 99.9%+. The system will load approximately 900 grams (just about 2lbs.) of dust to the trip of the Filterminder. With a 99.9% efficiency rating this would mean that less than 1 gram of dust would pass through the AIS to the clean air side. Competing with this new AIS on the market today, are various aftermarket induction systems that utilize washable filters. I have tested some of these filters and found their filtering efficiencies to be as low as 70%. This would mean on a 900 gram dust load, 270 grams (just over 1/2 lb.) of dust will be ingested into the engine. Now this would be devastating to any engine and more so to an engine with a 100,000+ rpm balanced turbo charger. * It looks like the Filterminder trips at a lower pressure, Is this true? This Filterminder is specially calibrated for this system. The Filterminder is calibrated to trip when the restriction at the outlet of the cover reaches 25" H2O. The Filterminder is not located directly in the outlet of the cover, so when tested with a vacuum pump, it may trigger at a lower pressure. As I stated above, it is calibrated to trigger when the pressure in the outlet is at 25" H2O, although the pressure in the location of the Filterminder may be somewhat different than that. * Is the system worth the money? The answer to this question is really up to the person who owns the truck. In my own opinion, this system is a great bargain being that it was custom engineered for the vehicle, it is injection molded, and employs some of the best cutting edge filtering technology available today. It is also less expensive than some of the aftermarket induction systems mentioned above. Hopefully I have answered most if not all of the questions I have found on this forum. In the future, I plan to visit this forum a couple times a week to check in and see if I can answer any more questions you may have. Thanks, Jordan S. Flagstad Senior Automotive Engineer Donaldson Company, Inc. |
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Thanks Jordan. I know that I really like my AIS. |
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I must say that having Mr Jordan Flagstad join our group is a great big plus for us.Any air filtering questions that we have had in the past and in the future with or without the new AIS system can be talked about with Mr flagstad.It's great to have a pro on board for all of us.He will be a great valuable help to us all.Joe 
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Quote: Jordan, Thank you for coming on board and clearing things up for us. I haven't noticed any performance loss switching from the Tymar set-up to the new AIS. The intake noise is much quieter now, running egt's are the same and my idle down time is faster, now that I'm sucking air from the outside. Just hope those replacement filters don't cost me my first born. |
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Quote: Excellent points ... A couple(actually 3  ) of questions:1. Not being familiar with the AIS filterminder when you say trips is this particular filterminder an on/off device or graduated like the stock 7.3L ones. If it's like the 7.3L ones with the 25, 50, 75% and change filter can you put numbers on these % as a function of the restriction at the outlet of the cover. (i.e. does a 25% on the filterminder equate to a 6inH2O restriction at the outlet of the cover.) Same question for 50,75, etc. 2. Is this 25in H20 at the outlet of the cover a Ford design spec for the max air restriction at that interface. 3. In your development of this FMC approved new air intake system did you have occasion to measure or see the factory designed specification on what the actual localized values of vacuum in inchesH20 was for either the F-series or E-series of the filterminder itself as a function of the percentages on it (i.e. 25, 50, 75). I'm especially interested in the values for the Van and the reason is for trying to check the accuracy of the filterminders against some standard. It would be great to get this information for both the stock F and E series along with the new AIS system. Thank you, Larry |
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Hello Martin, and thanks for the reply. I am glad to hear the positive results you report on the new AIS replacing the aftermarket system you had. I hear you on the cost of the replacement filters, but take this into consideration. I have read a few posts on this forum of folks buying this replacement filter for around $60 (some have found it cheaper). I am not sure what the cost of the standard OEM panel filter is, but I think a good estimate is $20. Knowing that this new AIS provides a service life on the order of 3x, the cost is a wash. Also, you get more closed hood time, lower restriction, and you benifit from the 99.9%+ efficiency of the new AIS, exceeding the OEM's efficiency specification. Jordan |
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Hi Jordan, What is your opinion of the Tymar (which uses one of the Donaldson filters) vs. the AIS ? |
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Hello Larry and thank you for the reply.. You have some good questions here. 1a. The first question pertaining to the Filterminder being graduated and value assignable, the answer is both yes and no. The reason I say yes and no is, yes the Filterminder does freeze in 6 positions on its way to being fully tripped. The "no" part of this answer would be that we do not have data attributed to each click on the Filterminder with the exception of the last click which is 25"H2O. I would say that the intermediate positions could be used as a good reference for you to make an educated guess on the life you may have left before an element change is needed, but as I said we do not have the data to assign values to them, and we would need to assume that the spring pressure internal to the Filterminder is linear to divide into equal segments. 1b. There is another part of your first question that I'd like to touch on here. You had asked if the indicator were graduated in 25, 50, and 75% positions, would that mean that each would correspond to their respective percentage of the 25"H2O total? I think I got that right.. To answer this, I need to point out that we need to figure in a very important value into this equation. That value would be the "Initial Restriction". The initial restriction would be the restriction value of the system with a clean element at the rated flow. The OEM's adhere to a SAE J726 spec for dust loading of filter elements. That spec says that there should be a 10"H2O rise in restriction over the life of the filter. So the initial restriction will be the terminal restriction (25"H2O) minus the 10"H2O rise, falling somewhere in the 15"H2O area for a initial restriction value. So IF this were a graduated indicator that we could assign values to, the values would be distributed throughout the 15-25"H2O range when figuring in the initial restriction of the system. 2. Yes, the 25"H2O at the outlet of the cover is a Ford design spec for the max air restriction at that interface. 3. This question seems to somewhat the same flavor as the first question. Hopefully what I wrote there and what I will follow with here will give you what you are looking for. I can share with you, the method that I use to validate the trip point of the Filterminder. I begin with a clean element and system on the flow bench flowing at the rated system flow. I begin to mask off portions of the element until the 10"H2O rise in restriction is attained (simulating the dust load). When the 10"H2O rise is attained, the Filterminder should be tripped, that is the bench test. The other part of this test is the in vehicle test. The same masked element is installed in the vehicle and driven on the test track. The object is to get the vehicle to a full "Giddy Up" condition for maximum air flow and this will be at the point where we are asking it to produce maximum horsepower. On an unloaded vehicle, this point can usually be found at the top gear shift out at wide open throttle where the torque required to overcome the tall gear and the aerodynamic horsepower is the highest. I have found this method to very accurately align the results of in vehicle testing to bench testing. Jordan |
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Jordan, Thank you very much for you detailed and expert reply and I won't get this thread any further off topic with my somewhat narrow field of interest here. Thank you again for your time,  Larry |
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I'll tell you one thing, with all the different threads and all the different things people have to say sure are making my head spin.  I'm trying to decide which intake to get. I've heard good things about the AFE and the AIS. I've heard the AIS does improve performance and that it doesn't improve performance. So I guess basically what I'm trying to ask is:I have the early '99 7.3 with a 75hp chip. I would like to have increased airflow and also have quality filtering. Right now I have a stock box with the drop-in K&N. Is the (supposed) increased airflow of the AFE worth the (also supposed) decreased filtering ability compared to the AIS. Also, the only AFE I can find is for the '99.5, but I know I can get the AIS for the '99. If the AFE won't fit my truck, then I guess this is all a moot point  Anyway, I know I ask a lot of questions and I know the debate could go on forever, but I appreciate all your input. |
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Jordan, How does the AIS compare with the UMP Super Filter for which you also manufacture the filter? UMP supplies a standard filter as well as one for a chipped engine. Your thoughts and comparisons would be appreciated. George |
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Hi all, I am very pleased that we now have Donaldson on board to answer questions about their product for Ford. Welcome aboard Jordan. My intent with this question was to get some information for myself since I was not successful in my original search. Now, I am glad that I phrased my question the way I did and some useful information is now in the posts above. I placed my order for the system on Monday from my local dealer (Stoneham Ford). I could have paid a bit less over the internet but I got a reasonable deal here and they are right there if I have any problems so an extra $10-20 or so is worth it. As long as you know enough to ask for a discount, there are savings to be had. On to the installation during vacation next week! Thanks all for your answers AND your questions! Paul |
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I am apprehensive to post a "comparison" of all of the other systems mentioned for the simple reason that I am not completely familiar with their designs nor have I had the opportunity to test all of them. I can leave you with some good information that may help you select your new induction should you be in the market for one. Your new induction system have ALL the following capabilities: 1) Inducts cool, dry air 2) Meet or exceed the efficiency specs set by the vehicle manufacturer 3) Custom fit for the specific application 4) Lower restriction than the standard OEM system 5) Easily serviceable 6) Ability to withstand the harsh underhood environment of heat, automotive fluid contamination, and vibration. If your perspective induction system has all of the above capabilities, I believe that you will be completely happy with it. Thanks, Jordan 
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Ok, I've decided to go with the AIS (mainly because the AFE won't fit on the early '99). Now, my next question is, does anyone know of a dealer in the Ft. Worth area that carries the system or can get it for me fairly quickly? |
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Jordan, Thanks much for the info you posted. FYI, the "UMP" filter he was referring to can be seen at the following link: http://www.uniquemetalproducts.com/ Other than the Ford AIS, this is the front runner on air filter replacement as I see it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it if you wouldn't mind. If nothing else, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the filter element they chose (which I believe is a Donaldson element) and how it compares to the AIS element and such. The Ford part is cheaper up-front, but the element costs more ($75 vs $35) and it's all plastic. The UMP set-up has a higher up-front cost (~$430 vs ~$220) but the replacement filters are cheaper and it's also aluminum rather than plastic. Cost-wise, they're a net wash if you add five replacement elements to the mix, so it comes down to filtration efficiency, flow, and the all-important bling bling factor.
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I just got the Donaldson filter kit through the dealer that I work for ($165) That is what they are selling to the public! I love it! I gained 2 lbs boost and I know that this will filter dust much better then then 7.3L Original filter system. Installation was 10min and I know Ford cant squawk on the Warranty!! |
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I just bought one from my local dealer. He had quoted me $250 and I told 1stfordproducts was selling for $180 he gave it to me for $200 and I can install it tommorrow. 
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I got mine from 1stfordparts.com. $190 to my door in 3 days. Easy install except for the mounting of the coolant filter to the new "snout"  . Went smooth after I figured that out.  All I can say is that is one heck of a filter. If it lasts any where like it should it will be worth the money. JMHO Housted |
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Jordan, Do you guys make or plan on making an AIS box for pre-99's. If not can you modify/jam the AIS in a pre-99? Thanks - Krowbar |
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Jordan, I have recently replaced my open air filter with the AIS in order to prevent my wife from having to wear ear plugs due to the whine of the ball bearing turbo. Since I have used the Donaldson B085011 filter for my open air filter, can you tell me how the flow characteristics compare between this and the AIS? When my boost is between 30 and 35 psi with the AIS, it sucks the "filter minder" to about 1/8" from the "replace filter" zone. Someone posted a while back that they were told by someone at Donaldson that the B085011 filter didn't have enough of a flow rating for this application. I have a feeling that the AIS flows better than the B085001 despite the indication of the filter minder since I also set the SES light the first time I dropped the hammer. Please check your pm's. Thanks, Dale |
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Hey Krowbar, Thanks for the question. I am not sure if one could make the necessary modifications to fit the new AIS in a pre-99 chassis as I am not familiar with the underhood layout. I have never attempted it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Right now, I don't have anything on the drawing board for the pre-99 chassis, but if there becomes a large enough demand for one it could be a possibility. The PowerCore media used in the new AIS has really proven to be a world class product with it's free flowing low restriction and excellent efficiency properties. We are seeing an exponential demand for this product as it hits the automotive industry, so I can appreciate you desire to have PowerCore in your vehicle. Straight through low restriction flow = HORSEPOWER, 99.9%+ efficiency = an engine that lives. Thanks, Jordan Flagstad Donaldson Company |
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Dale, You've hit the nail on the head here. With the new AIS you get the high flow needed for all of the mods you have, plus you get the sound attenuation that in your case keeps your wife happy. Those of you that are adding mods , are going to see the restriction indicators do different things . The indicators are calibrated for stock engines, but that doesn't mean that the new AIS can't handle the the increased air flow that some of you are looking for. When the air flow increases, the indicator just thinks that the filter has been fully loaded. Thanks, Jordan |
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The Filterminder for the AIS is set to trigger at 25 psi. If you are sucking harder than this, you will set the Filterminder off. The trigger point is set for the difference in pressure between a "clean" filter and a "dirty" filter. Ford and Donaldson determined that this delta is 10 psi. An AIS pulls 15 psi bone stock clean, so the trigger point for the AIS was set at 25 psi (15 + 10 = 25). Nothing more magical about that number than that. |
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I've seen my filter minder (FM) set at 1/2 and 3/4 of the way over to the red with my new AIS. Seems to me to be a function of boost level. Makes me think that only full over in the red is 25. But that's not my issue, just an observation. Since I didn't have the same (or any) FM on my Donaldson B085011 (aka Tymar) open element filter, I don't know if the post-filter suction was as high at WOT with the Donaldson B085011 as it is with the AIS. That's why I still would like to know if Jordan has the flow numbers for the two filters. To me, 25 (inches of mercury right?) represents a surprising amount of pressure drop across the filter. I understand that the better filtration of the AIS may fall short of meeting the air demand of a modded engine. But, if the open element actually flowed less than the AIS, I think other people considering this mod would want to know. Thanks, Dale |
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Dale, The 25" is 25" of water. Jordan |
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I received flow information from Jordan Flagstad at Donaldson about the The Donaldson B085001 (often used as a Tymar filter) and the AIS with Donaldson Power Core filter. Subjecting both filters to 500 CFM of flow, the B085001 filter indicates 10" (of water) restriction while the Power Core installed in the AIS housing indicates 8.3" of restriction. This was e-mailed to me by another member of TDS, but the information belongs here. Thanks Jordan for the info, and thanks Ed for relaying it to me. Dale |
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Dale, No problem. And thanks to Jordan for the info. I found another supplier for these AIS systems - price delivered will be $180. Mine should be in by the middle of the week. Need to see how the overall customer service is, so I can offer an opinion based on my actual experience. So if anyone is planning on buying one of these, you may want to hold off for a couple days. As soon as I get it, I'll open up the box and make sure everything is there, and if all is good, I'll post the link to this supplier, along with the unit price they'll honor and shipping charges, unless TDS management says otherwise. Then I may have to PM or email the info to all interested. Stay tuned... |
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Quote: Based on my limited observations to date, I believe that to be the case. I see 3 to 4 inH20 restriction at the outlet of the air box towing with a boost of around 4psi. At max boost of around 15psi I see around 14 to 16inH20 restriction. However, my air system is much different than yours. Larry |
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OK, I got my new AIS system today. Ordered late Friday afternoon, in my hands by Wednesday. Quick service, plenty of unsolicited emails keeping me updated on the order and delivery status. And, the best price delivered that I could find. $179.99. Go here for more info: http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1409979&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1 Edited by bandit67 (10/01/03 01:40 PM) |
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When you are talking flow-related numbers for the AIS filter element, were these taken with the element in the AIS container and snorkel? If you take numbers on a Tymar-type element, its pretty self-explanitary, because there isn't any "casing/snorkel/etc" to affect the flow around/thru the element. I just want to make sure that all numbers for restriction/flow from official sources are through the element IN the enclosure/snorkel that my turbo would connect to.
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Quote: When it was posted: I received flow information from Jordan Flagstad at Donaldson about the The Donaldson B085001 (often used as a Tymar filter) and the AIS with Donaldson Power Core filter. Subjecting both filters to 500 CFM of flow, the B085001 filter indicates 10" (of water) restriction while the Power Core installed in the AIS housing indicates 8.3" of restriction. Seems clear to me Quote: However, where you measure things has a large effect so be careful about these direct comparisons. There are a lot of apples and oranges out there.  Quote: I've seen little consistency to date to put much comparative faith in numbers claims by the various air filtering systems except for the AIS when comparing these various air intake filter systems. Maybe it will happen, but I kind of doubt it since real numbers using consistent comparable measurement techniques might be too revealing Larry |
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Jordan, I recently installed the AIS system with Donaldsons Power core filter, all I have to say is WOW! I found a new purpose for my Powerstroke. I now have the worlds first, and largest, 444 cubic inch shop vac! That filter/housing pulls cigarette smoke in through my Zoodad hole from a foot+ away from the opening at idle. No noticable loss in boost on the boost gauge or change in my EGTs. For the people who have a Wicked, Banks or Swisher turbo wheel and your better half hates the turbo whine this is the ticket, it's like I put a silencer on my turbo. The snorkel seems huge compared to the stock one, and I am done cleaning oil/cotton gauze filters for good! First review and I give your company a 10 for a filter/box that should have been on this truck in the first place. Please tell your company thanks for a great product. See ya, Shane |
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OK fellas, here's the deal. I spoke directly with Jordan Flagstad - I was the one he gave those flow numbers to. He is an engineer at Donaldson. Donaldson makes the big filter (B085011) that Dale Isley puts on his Tymar setup. Donaldson makes the AIS kit and the Power Core filter that goes into it. Donaldson did the comparison flow testing. They tested the flow through their entire AIS kit as they sell it (or as Ford dealers sell it), and they tested their B085011 filter alone hooked up to the flow test equipment. And the flow through the Power Core filter installed in the AIS housing, plastic housing and all, showed 8.3" of restriction at 500 CFM flow. The flow through the B085011 filter alone, hooked directly up to the test equipment (ie. - open to airflow all the way around the filter) showed 10" of restriction at the same 500 CFM flow. This is how Jordan explained it to me, and this is why I am replacing my Tymar with the AIS. |
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bandit67, Thanks for posting the flow numbers and restrictions from Jordan. I'm happy with my AIS system after switching from the Tymar. Seems to do everything the Tymar did, but with faster cool down times and a lot less noise. I think that the Tymar system is an excellant set-up, but the AIS is working better for me. |
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Sorry Larry, but until I heard the word "snorkel" or "as its packaged", its not clear. Now that I have, its clear. When you use a snorkel in an intake system (plenum, if its more pleasing - but not accurate), you have to make sure that you are dealing with the assembly as a whole. Not that I'm suspicious, but I needed to hear the correct wording and "housing" was subjective by itself. You understand.
I wonder if the decrease in restriction would be seen into the 700cfm mark (somewhere around 2800 rpm with appropriate load). |
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Hey Guys, It's great to be back on here again. Sorry it has been a while, a lot has been going on here, and you know I have to fit in all of my hunting seasons and such.... Well, I'm back and "re-domesticated" as some would say (my wife), and ready to talk shop again. Looks like everyone is getting great results for the new AIS. Glad to hear of the faster cool down times, as that is a great benifit. I'd like to wish everyone a safe and happy holiday season..... Jordan |
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jordan, i for one want to thank you for your input and info.hopefully hunting was all it was supposed to be. mine was. i have one question--everyone is callingthe AIS the NEW AIS SYSYEM. has the ais been "redone" or this the same AIS that has been on the market for while. i havent read the entire thread, but does someone have the ford part no?? thanks in advance |
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Jones, Thanks, Actully this year was my best hunting season ever. This "New AIS System" is the same system that we have been talking about all along. There has been no update or changes from the manufacturer since the product was launched. It is sold under the part number 2U2J-9K635-AA at your local Ford dealer. I am not sure what they are going for now, or which dealer has the best deal, but I believe there are many people on this forum who can. What I can tell you is that it is second to none when it comes to upgrading the induction system on your truck, as it comprises cool air induction, noise attenuation, 99.9+% efficiency, extreme dust loading, low maintenence, and excellent air flow all in one well made ready to go easy to install package. Give your Power Stroke a Power Core... Thanks, Jordan S. Flagstad Senior Automotive Engineer Donaldson Company, Inc. Minneapolis, MN |
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the Severe Duty AIS "mod" that people are referring to is to cut a hole in the side of the box nearest the driver's side fender and use foam tubing to direct cool external air from the fender well into the box as seen here. |
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I've been running my AIS for 14 months now, and I'm still very pleased with it. Jordan, I'd be interested to hear your take on the "mod" that haul_n_horses2 has provided the link to. Seems interesting. Is it worth attempting to do to get that additional flow? |
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I took some time to take a look at the link for this mod. Based on what I know from plotting pressure maps on systems such as this, this modification area would be a low pressure area indicating that an inlet in this area would not greatly increase air flow if at all, as the path of least resistance will be throught the actual inlet. What I believe this modification will do though is affect how the system attenuates the intake system noise. Right now,from what I have heard on this forum, is that the new AIS does a great job at "keeping everyones wife happy"(Low Noise). I can not predict for you if this modification will increase performance of your vehicle. The only real way to see if it will is through a dyno test. I have not seen anyone post any dyno numbers for the mod, but rather suggested a gain in seat of the pants feel. I guess if I were out for every last bit of performance, I would buy 2 new AIS systems, and perform the mod on one of them then go compare the 2 on the dyno. Thanks, Jordan |
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I think some users with bigger turbos or ball bearing turbos, chips and aftermarket exhausts have had some problems with the restriction imposed by this filter. Apparently, this mod has alleviated that restriction. Personally, I would be a bit concerned as there was a reason why Ford switched the air intake from the fender well to it's current position. Water ingestion?? |
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Thanks for the reply, Jordan. I have an issue with the SOP meter, and not getting more scientific data from this "mod", so I don't think I'm quite ready to start cutting up my airbox. I also question the "restriction" that folks have complained about - the restriction seems to only have ever been registered at the gauge. The spring in the gauge has been set up to deal with stock conditions, from what Jordan has stated in earlier posts, and thus will pull down quicker on a modded motor. However, it also seems that tests run with and without the filter installed do not change the ease at which the gauge gets pulled down. When I look at that gauge, it's location, and the components of the gauge, I can't help but wonder why I should put much stock in it's ability to tell me how much air is really flowing through the filter, since the gauge can erroneously indicate that a brand new filter is clogged after a WOT run on a modded motor. My take on that gauge is that it's nothing more than Ford's attempt at letting the average PSD owner know that it may be time to change the filter. I don't think the specs and tolerances on the materials and construction of that gauge make it a device that can give extremely precise, scientific measurements that can provide an accurate analysis of the performance of the AIS system. I haven't read of anyone actually using a high quality flow gauge mounted further down the intake tube toward the turbo to test the stock AIS, the modified AIS, and no AIS box at all (just an intake tube). Until someone does a more scientific test with more accurate flow readings with a REAL gauge (not some mass-produced plastic thing), I think I'll leave my AIS as is. But that's just MHO. |
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Bandit, You've hit the nail on the head here. Users are falsely accusing the new AIS of being too restrictive only because with their mods, they trip the stock change indicator prematurely. Instead, let's look at it from a positive light. Suppose you went out and got the best new high performance exhaust system on the market and installed it on your pickup. Now after the installation, what would it tell you if the indicator acted a bit differently, as in tripping prematurely? Most likely, it would tell you that you are now making more horsepower than you were with the stock exhaust system. Are you still maintaining the same boost pressure? Most likely yes, and probably actually hitting that high boost sooner. Now I need to ask this question... If you can maintain your desired boost pressure, How can this new AIS be too restrictive? Do any of you sled pullers out there have any experience with the new AIS on a heavily modified ride? I'd like to hear from anyone who is spinning a bigger windmill, and what they have experienced with the new AIS. Haul_n_horses, I think you may be on to something with the comment you made on intake placement and snow/water intrusion. Thanks, Jordan |
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Jordan, Last year it was posted in this thread that you (or someone at Donaldson) did an airfow and restriction comparison between the "Tymar type" B085011 element and the AIS "as installed". Would you be able to do some airflow tests on the complete AIS "as installed", and then also with just the filter attached to the lid? How about some airflow tests of just the element itself? I would think that that would help to shed some light on whether or not modifying the housing could yield some (or any) benefits, since the contention is; that the housing is the most restrictive part of the assembly.
I have an early 99, and can tell you from experience that the fender well opening (that was used for the early 99 OE air filter assembly) was/is very good at picking up dust/dirt/sand that has been "stirred up" by the LF tire.  I had looked at that area very closely (before the AIS came out) for possible modifications that would allow air to be drawn from the front of the vehicle with some sort of ducting. While it wouldn't be a simple MOD, it is "do-able". If I were going to do this current "AIS MOD", and cut a hole in the AIS housing, I would also duct the fenderwell air intake to the front grille area.
It also seems to me that any hole that is cut in the housing (without ducting to the front) would negate any positive pressure (or "ram air") that you may be seeing at highway speeds.
Still, it would be interesting to see the airflow results....
Erick |
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Fellows, I can't spout air flow tests or quote specific numbers about doing the fender sleeve to the AIS. I can tell you however that it seems the air flow issue with the filter minder pulling down on modified trucks is a pretty good indication. On my truck I have run the AIS as it comes from Ford and noticed like many the filter minder will pull down even when brand new even if it is the original one. I basically ran the truck with no filter and with the filter and found the restriction to flow appears to be the box itself not the filter element. Here is some more information about this http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/ford_ais By cutting the hole in the AIS and connecting it to the fender opening the filter minder no longer moves and yes a detectable SOP is noticeable as well as a slight EGT drop. I have used many different air intake systems on my Fords and by far the AIS modified with hole seems to be the one I like the most because I get the performance I am looking for with the best filtering and no wierd noises. Other systems may actually flow more, but are not as good all around in my opinion. For those with stock trucks, really no reason to cut a hole int he AIS, just use it as supplied by Ford. |
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I just wanted to post this in here on this topic. I got a reply from jflagstad about cutting the snorkel. I explained that i believed i lost mpg with the ais. He felt is was unecessary to cut the snorkel and it would help with keeping rain and snow out of the box. I never did end up cutting it and my mileage returned after i returned to stock wheels and tires. So i have no net loss of mpg with the ais. |
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I have found it mandatory to do the zoodad mod to keep the filter-minder from tripping prematurely. Just make sure you cover it in bad winter storms (I didn't and ended up with a blue block if ice) |
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Quote: Is that a $70 blue block of ice? Jim |
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I am a big fan of the AIS. I installed it because I wasn't happy with the stock P.O.S. and wanted better filtering quality. Not as a performance mod. When the truck was stock I could pull the AIS filter mider about 25% if I really got in the pedal. This didn't concern me much even though I had never seen any movement on the original filter setup. I just figured the new one must be calibrated a little more sensitive. When I later deciding to mod my truck for more power I found I could easily peg it.  I cut a 3" hole in my housing after reading Carnut's post and couldn't be happier (thank's Dave). Now it only goes a little past 25%. You can feel a huge S.O.P. difference and I get about 3 lbs. of additional boost. It doesn't seem any louder. I have not yet sealed it to the fender with foam due to concerns about water getting in but I haven't ruled it out either. I have no idea how accurate the filter mider is but since it operates against spring tension I have to think it is fairly linear. The reduced movement, additional boost, and S.O.P. meter makes me believe that I have significantly reduced the intake restriction. Jeff |
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Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
Re: Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
Re: Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
Re: Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
Re: Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
Re: Ford Intake Upgrade - Do We Need This?
