Temporary Archives >> Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine

Pages: 1
mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
AIS Problems
#1828990 - 06/01/04 03:18 PM

I have a 7.3 PSD in my '02 X and I just installed an severe duty AIS system. Please excuse me if I am using the wrong terminology. I am having problems with my dirty filter sensor that came attached to the AIS airbox. I am noticing that the vacumm sensor starts to slowly move to 25% and eventualy to 100% capacity which in turn triggers a "replace filter" alarm on my dash. The Ford Dealer by my house replaced the sensor but I have the same problem; this same dealership installed the AIS for me. I have installed the sensor that came with my original air box and it works better, it stops at 25%. I have checked the intake snorkle from the grill to the main box itself and everything looks ok. I have a Banks Stinger Plus system on my X but I do not drive her hard. I watch my gauges and get good fuel milage, infact my milage has not droped since the AIS was installed. I do tow a small trailer with an ATV and the terrain I drive varies.

Have any of you experienced this or do you have any positive suggestions??

Thanks!!

haul_n_horses2
Member
Member # 21227
Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 3752
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829044 - 06/01/04 04:10 PM

I think the "snorkel" may be obstructed partially by a rubber flap near the grill. The restriction sensors are calibrated differently for the two filter systems and are not interchangeable.

Drivin_Texas
Member
Member # 42608
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829057 - 06/01/04 04:21 PM

I too had that happen after installing the Edge Predator. On the 60hp setting, the filterminder never went to 100%. As soon as I went to the 80hp setting, it triggered the sensor on my dash. It appears that while the AIS is great at filtering, there is more restriction with it.

SMOKE_N_STROKE
Member
Member # 43437
Reged: 05/17/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829058 - 06/01/04 04:21 PM

You have no problems.

Ths spring in the filter sensor is weaker then the original and it will bury your filter minder on the AIS. Re-install the original if you have it.

Otherwise unplug the wires on the sensor so it doesn't throw a SES light and run it.

I've had mine for 6 months or so and encountered the same issue from day one.

I've read in other posts that Ford / Motorcraft has a replacement sensor for the AIS. Just check your filter for cleanliness every oil change or so. They should be good for 20K in normal conditions.

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829070 - 06/01/04 04:26 PM

I figured that each sensor was calibrated for it's own system hence the different sensor part numbers. I checked the front of the snorkle at the grill yesterday and did not see any kind of obstruction. I will look again.

Thanks!!

carnut57
Sponsor
Member # 20558
Reged: 03/20/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Washington
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829241 - 06/01/04 05:56 PM

mike650,

This seems to be normal for the AIS kits. Just use the filter minder that came with the truck and it will work normally.

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1829891 - 06/01/04 11:36 PM

Well I checked the front of the snorkle and there are no obstructions.

Why is this normal that the filter minder sensor that comes with the AIS kit does not work properly and I have to use the one from my stock air box??? My original post goes into detail as to what I am experiencing with both the new and old sensors. Does this mean that the AIS system actually has more air restriction than my old stock air box? Is my Banks System exposing the AIS as a fraud? If so, am I at risk with the AIS and should I look at changing it to another system like an aFe proguard-7 or going back to the stock air box??

Any positive feed back would realy be appreciated,

Thanks again!!

shamuex2000
Member
Member # 9002
Reged: 10/23/00
Posts: 1140
Loc: Chicagoland
Re: AIS Problems new
#1830274 - 06/02/04 09:11 AM

The improved factory air box with the 3" pleat paper filter does a good job in flowing air and filtration provided there is a good seal between the filter and the air box. The poor seal of the stock air box is often reason enough to switch to the AIS. The AIS has a better sealing box, and it won't cause the dealer to have a warranty hissy-fit. I believe the AIS filter does a better job of filtration, but I also believe that it does not flow enough air to support a modified engine. The filter minder that comes with the AIS is supposedly calibrated to go into the "change filter" zone at 25" of water (pressure drop measured across the filter, aka: restriction). On my truck, a WOT run will peg the filter minder. If you're concerned about filtration, given a clean filter, I don't think that when the filter minder goes into the red it's an indicator of poor filtration. Just flow restriction. Dale

jcthorne
Member
Member # 6152
Reged: 03/30/00
Posts: 391
Loc: Houston, TX USA
Re: AIS Problems new
#1830782 - 06/02/04 02:20 PM

I thought this too when I installed my AIS. Turns out that the snorkle gets too close to the radiator support on some trucks. There needs to be at least 1 1/2" clearance from the end of the snorkle to the rad support. i chose to cut an opening in the radiator support to feed air to the ais. Some others have shortened the snorkle to provide more clearance and prevent snow from entering the intake. (I do not have sky dandruff problems here in Houston)

The AIS itself is less restrictive than the factory air box and will read corectly on the filter minder included with the kit.

James

Jflagstad
Member
Member # 33475
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: AIS Problems new
#1830991 - 06/02/04 04:21 PM

Hello guys, I think I have spoke to some of you before. My name is Jordan Flagstad and I work for Donaldson Company. Donaldson Company contracted with Ford to design and manufacture the new AIS for your trucks.

The restriction indicators on the OEM system and the new AIS are not created equal. The indicator on the new AIS triggers at a lower pressure than does the one on the OEM system. The reason for this is not only because the new AIS offers a lower overall restriction, but because it is calibrated to trigger when there is 25" at the turbo inlet which yields a much lower pressure at the location of the indicator. The OEM indicator is calibrated to trigger when it sees 25" at the air box cover outlet. I am not sure why Ford spec'd these systems to trigger differently, but I can only speculate that with the lower restriction of the new AIS Ford realized that the engine no longer had to work as hard to achieve the rated horse power levels desired.

The indicator on the new AIS is precisely calibrated to work properly on an un-modified vehicle. If you have added power enhancements to your vehicle that are requiring increased air flows, you will then need to "Tune" your indicator circut to work with the combonation that you have. If you are increasing the horsepower, you will need to change to an indicator that triggers at a higher pressure. (it looks like some of you are already on to this)

If you have the new AIS on your truck, you have already made the best investment out there for performance and engine protection. Just keep the indicator circut tuned to the enhancements that you have added and I believe that you will be completely satisfied with this product.

Thanks Guys, be safe, have fun, keep the oil on the inside, and the pistons under the hood.

Jordan s. Flagstad
Senior Automotive Engineer
Donaldson Company
Minneapolis, MN

Lone_Wolf_87
Member
Member # 37715
Reged: 12/31/03
Posts: 259
Re: AIS Problems new
#1831143 - 06/02/04 05:58 PM

Quote:

Hello guys, I think I have spoke to some of you before. My name is Jordan Flagstad and I work for Donaldson Company. Donaldson Company contracted with Ford to design and manufacture the new AIS for your trucks.

The restriction indicators on the OEM system and the new AIS are not created equal. The indicator on the new AIS triggers at a lower pressure than does the one on the OEM system. The reason for this is not only because the new AIS offers a lower overall restriction, but because it is calibrated to trigger when there is 25" at the turbo inlet which yields a much lower pressure at the location of the indicator. The OEM indicator is calibrated to trigger when it sees 25" at the air box cover outlet. I am not sure why Ford spec'd these systems to trigger differently, but I can only speculate that with the lower restriction of the new AIS Ford realized that the engine no longer had to work as hard to achieve the rated horse power levels desired.

The indicator on the new AIS is precisely calibrated to work properly on an un-modified vehicle. If you have added power enhancements to your vehicle that are requiring increased air flows, you will then need to "Tune" your indicator circut to work with the combonation that you have. If you are increasing the horsepower, you will need to change to an indicator that triggers at a higher pressure. (it looks like some of you are already on to this)

If you have the new AIS on your truck, you have already made the best investment out there for performance and engine protection. Just keep the indicator circut tuned to the enhancements that you have added and I believe that you will be completely satisfied with this product.

Thanks Guys, be safe, have fun, keep the oil on the inside, and the pistons under the hood.

Jordan s. Flagstad
Senior Automotive Engineer
Donaldson Company
Minneapolis, MN




Thanks, Jordan, for the occasional posts. I believe you were the one that posted the AIS filtration results a few months ago, correct? I bought the AIS, and so far VERY happy with it after about 1000 miles. Even though I have not experienced what others have, perhaps because I have the Banks Stinger mods, which are probably a lot less radical than some of the other mods, can you explain further " Just keep the indicator circut tuned to the enhancements that you have added " ?

Thanks in advance,

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1831649 - 06/02/04 10:54 PM

Lone_Wolf_87, you do not have a problem with your AIS vaccum sensor?

I also have a Banks Stinger Plus that I consider mild compared to some of the other guys and gals who use super chips and programmers.

Banks is quoted as saying "Bank Power systems are designed to conform to vehicles operated within maximum load specifications. All applicable Banks systems are emissions-tested and certified in 50 states."

With that said, what is the next step?? I had Ford warrenty the sensor that came with the AIS kit. Jordan had a great post but I too need to be educated on this. How do I "Tune" my indicator circut to work with the combonation that I have?

I really like my AIS and my goal is to ensure that my sensor is properly and not "crying wolf" everytime it goes off. We all know that story and what could happen if there is a real problem. The vaccum sensor is ther for a reason, to protect my motor.

Thanks again to everyone for the help so far!!

Lone_Wolf_87
Member
Member # 37715
Reged: 12/31/03
Posts: 259
Re: AIS Problems new
#1831833 - 06/03/04 12:50 AM

No, no problems. But then I have not put the hammer down but a few times, and then only briefly. Glad to hear I'm not the only one not understanding the "tune" he is talking about.

dmftoy1
Member
Member # 21742
Reged: 05/19/02
Posts: 4371
Loc: Lexington, IL
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832027 - 06/03/04 07:35 AM

I'm just guessing, but I think the tune he's referring to is using the original sensor if you're constantly tripping the one that ships with the AIS.

I exercise mine quite a bit and it hasn't tripped yet but I've only got 3k on the filter.

Regards,
Dave

Jflagstad
Member
Member # 33475
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832381 - 06/03/04 11:56 AM

Lone Wolf,

Thanks for the question. Incidentally guys if any of you have questions don't hold back, by all means ask them. No question is a dumb question, and all of your questions deserve answers. Participating in this forum and answering your questions is my favorite part of my job, so keep them coming.

Think of the restriction indicator, as sort of a circuit breaker like you would find in your home. If you were to add another appliance to a given circuit in your home that required more current, you may need to increase the size of the circuit breaker supporting that circuit. Now of course, you need to keep in mind that the circuit itself needs to be designed to carry the extra load of the new appliance.

The design and technology used in the new AIS give it airflow characteristics that allow it to support a tremendous amount of horsepower while giving you excellent dust efficiency (99.99%). These two characteristics are not normally found in the same system, as there is usually a trade off. The indicator circuit is designed to alert the operator when it has detected a 10" rise in restriction across the element due to the dust load. When calibrating for this 10" rise we need to determine a baseline, and that baseline is determined using a stock unmodified vehicle because we could not possibly calibrate for all of the various modified combinations out there.

Now if you add a modification such as a new performance exhaust system, and your new AIS's indicator is immediately triggered, that doesn't mean that the new AIS is more restrictive, it simply means that you are making more horsepower. You have gotten what the exhaust mfg. has promised you, more flow. All you have done is just changed the baseline of your restriction indicator's calibration, which is not a bad thing, you are just making more horsepower. As you install power adders, the calibration baseline of the restriction indicator changes due to the increased airflow. To retain the proper function of the indicator as you are adding modifications, you need to install a stiffer indicator that will work with the system. Now I have heard that others have installed the OEM indicator, as it is stiffer and have had good results with it on modified vehicles. I have not tried this so I am just going by what I have read here on the forum.

Now a bit here on warranty. I cannot tell you what modifications will and will not void your warranty, check with your dealer on that. Historically, intake and exhaust systems have been acceptable modifications that have not voided vehicle warranty. Recently I have heard that some vehicle manufacturers have began to deny warranty claims on vehicles where aftermarket induction system have been installed, based on their inability to filter out dust and dirt from the intake air due to low efficiency high flow media, and less than desirable gasket sealing.

Dust and dirt particles are not a good mix with turbo blades that are spinning at 100,000+ rpm. My advice to you is to never in any case trade off dust filtering efficiency for increased air flow, instead look to increase both simultaneously in conjunction with cool air induction, rain / snow separation and easy drop in installation. The new AIS can offer you all of the above with a 99.99% dust efficiency rating. Before you buy any intake system, always ask to see the dust efficiency rating of the system to ensure you are not making a trade off.

Thanks, and keep’em spoolin…

Jordan S. Flagstad
Senior Automotive Engineer
Donaldson Company
Minneapolis, MN

jschira
Member
Member # 26624
Reged: 11/19/02
Posts: 5691
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832391 - 06/03/04 12:01 PM

Jordan

You guys need to tighten the clamps on the cover. They don't snap down very hard and the lid does not seem to compress the rubber gasket on the filter very well.

Some have reported leaks and dust in the airbox.

I added some 3/16" thick self-adhesive weatherstripping to the inside of the lid. My lid now snaps down with authority.

Drivin_Texas
Member
Member # 42608
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 9
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832628 - 06/03/04 02:45 PM

Quote:

To retain the proper function of the indicator as you are adding modifications, you need to install a stiffer indicator that will work with the system.




I really appreciate all the help you have been but I still have questions. Besides using the original filterminder, where can you get a "stiffer indicator"? How many levels of stiffness does the indicator come in? I talked to two Ford houses and they say that the factory filterminder for the 7.3 is the same as the 6.0 and is the same for the AIS. They show the same part number for all three.

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832756 - 06/03/04 04:33 PM

Drivin_Texas

I have a 7.3 PSD so I am not familiar with the 6.0's filter minder. My friend has a 6.0 and his looks just like my stock one but I can not confirm the part numbers.

Here is what I have for the air filter restriction gauge:

7.3 PSD - 2002 - stock air box (color - blue, red, white) - part # 2c3u-9n622-aa

AIS (color - green, red, white) - part # 2u2j-9n622-aa

The rest button is yellow on both gauges

FYI - I was told by my Ford dealer that they have been having issues with the sensor on the 6.0 diesels. I believe the 6.0 has the same AIS technology that I just installed and have been having issues with.

Hope this helps!

Edited by mike650 (06/03/04 08:51 PM)

coldair
Member
Member # 6488
Reged: 04/25/00
Posts: 2499
Loc: Naples fl
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832904 - 06/03/04 06:16 PM

the AIS is more retrictive and in order to avoid the sensor from defueling the engine just leave the factory sensor pluged into the harness and wire tie it outside the box

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832915 - 06/03/04 06:25 PM

Here I go with another silly question.

What do you mean de-fueling the engine? If the sensor starts to trigger does it tells the computer to back off on fuel to the injectors? If So, by leaveing the stock sensor connected to the harness but not pluged into the box I avoid this? I guess I would also have to plug the AIS sensor into the air box so that no dirt enters the hole where the sensor normaly plug into.

coldair
Member
Member # 6488
Reged: 04/25/00
Posts: 2499
Loc: Naples fl
Re: AIS Problems new
#1832938 - 06/03/04 06:39 PM

mike you are correct. I just leave the new sensor in the box and reuse my old one on the harness.

Daisy096
Member
Member # 40997
Reged: 03/27/04
Posts: 308
Loc: New Jersey
Re: AIS Problems new
#1833038 - 06/03/04 07:51 PM

Quote:

Drivin_Texas

I have a 7.3 PSD so I am not familiar with the 6.0's filter minder. My friend has a 6.0 and his looks just like my stock one but I can not confirm the part numbers.

Here is what I have for the air filter restriction gauge:

7.3 PSD - 2002 - stock air box (color - blue, red, white) - part # 2c3u-9n622-aa

AIS (color - green, red, white) - part # 2u2j-9n622-aa

Hope this helps!




I have an AIS intake and the guage is different as far as the color of the reset button, The AIS is green while the stock one was yellow I asked the ford stealer the last time I have the oil changed and his reply was, "they are different". My gauge works just fine, this one has moved since I installed the box, the stock one never moved in 1 1/2 years, 12,000 miles, although I did change the stock filter in that amount of time, but never pressed the "reset" button.

Dezl_Doc
Member
Member # 425
Reged: 04/05/99
Posts: 1662
Loc: Gallipolis, Ohio
Re: AIS Problems new
#1833276 - 06/03/04 09:54 PM

Could you put one on a flow bench and pull 700 CFM and measure the restriction?? According to some compressior maps that's about how much air a modified PSD can use. More with MM injectors.

Lone_Wolf_87
Member
Member # 37715
Reged: 12/31/03
Posts: 259
Re: AIS Problems new
#1833376 - 06/03/04 11:06 PM

Thank you, Jordan, for taking time out to help. Its hard for most of us to know everything about everything , so when someone that is more expert in one area contributes, its really appreciated. At least by me. Your post a few months ago was VERY influential in my decision to upgrade. Sad thing is, my oem airbox never leaked. Neither has my new AIS. But I feel more comfortable with the AIS. Thanks again, and keep us Ford PSD junkies in mind from time to time.

mike650
Member
Member # 42589
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 492
Loc: Northern California
Re: AIS Problems new
#1833386 - 06/03/04 11:13 PM

Ditto!!

Jflagstad
Member
Member # 33475
Reged: 07/18/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: AIS Problems new
#1834220 - 06/04/04 02:05 PM

Doc,

I did some digging for that data that you were looking for and came across where the new AIS was tested against the element used in the Tymar intake setup. I guess you could say that it was sort of a "Flow Bench Shoot Out". Anyway, the data stopped at 650 cfm so I would have to extrapolate 50 cfm worth of flow data to ball park the restriction at 16"H20 @ 700 CFM (Not Bad ). Incidentally, the Tymar element was yielding 16"H20 clear back at 500 cfm.

Thanks guys for all of the questions and kind compliments. I am on the road today with a painfully slow remote internet connection so I apologize in advance if I don't get all of your questions answered until Monday.

Thanks Again,

Jordan

Dezl_Doc
Member
Member # 425
Reged: 04/05/99
Posts: 1662
Loc: Gallipolis, Ohio
Re: AIS Problems new
#1834456 - 06/04/04 04:53 PM

Thanks for the info, it's great to see someone stand behind there product.
I am very happy with my AIS, even with an upgraded turbo flowing around 700 CFM. I just need to change the filter minder. Would the one off the stock box be the correct one for this amount of air flow??
Again the AIS is a great product!!!

Dezl_Doc
Member
Member # 425
Reged: 04/05/99
Posts: 1662
Loc: Gallipolis, Ohio
Re: AIS Problems new
#1841591 - 06/09/04 02:18 AM

Bump

shamuex2000
Member
Member # 9002
Reged: 10/23/00
Posts: 1140
Loc: Chicagoland
Re: AIS Problems new
#1841741 - 06/09/04 08:31 AM

If a modified truck and a new filter peggs the AIS sensor, that indicates a pressure drop of 25" of water, correct? There was a comment made some time ago about the Donaldson paper filter often used with the Tymar not flowing enough for this application. The pressure drop of this filter was around 12 and the AIS was about 9, but that was at 500 cfm. right? Seems to me that the flow and filtering capacity of the AIS is excellent for a stock truck for which it was designed. But, when truck modifications increase the flow through the filter, the restriction goes up and peggs the sensor indicating a 25" "restriction". What pressure drop would you be satisfied with if you were to make a filter for modified trucks? Dale

Pages: 1



Contact Us TheDieselStop.Com

*
UBB.threads™ 6.3


All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies.
All else is Copyright © 1997-2001 TheDieselStop.Com.

TheDieselStop.Com Privacy Statement
Advertising on TheDieselStop.Com

This site is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company or Navistar International Corporation.