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TwinCreek
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Member # 33123
Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Kentucky
8V92 Detroit
#1925994 - 08/02/04 09:30 AM


Would like to learn the good and bad about 6V92 and 8V92 engines used in Bluebird motorhomes from mid 80's.
thanks
marvin

LMJD
Member
Member # 12336
Reged: 03/25/01
Posts: 3158
Loc: Cody, Wy
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1926082 - 08/02/04 10:40 AM

They can be a good reliable engine. It's a tradition for any truck mechanic and/or truck driver the make fun of Detroit Screamers, but most will also admit (including myself) that they're pretty dependable. My experience is that the 92 series didn't have as many head cracking problems that the 53 and 71 series had. Every "wannabe" will say how bad they leak oil but they don't any more than any other engine. They have 2 air box drains that drip oil but that's not an engine problem, it was designed that way. If I remember right, the later 92's had the drains returning the oil to the pan. Hopefully GoneFishen will give you better info, he's still working on them, but I retired some years back. As far as difficulty, I always thought they were easy to work on for a V configuration truck engine, other that the fuel lines going into the passengers' side cylinder head. Plus if you don't use 3M weatherstrip adhesive to glue the big cyl. head quad ring at the corners you can be in a world of hurt. They don't use head gaskets, just quad rings and fire rings.

TinyBear
Member
Member # 41792
Reged: 04/11/04
Posts: 194
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1926472 - 08/02/04 03:10 PM

I actualy like these motors and find them very intresting. I am just starting in the trade as i am only goin on my 3rd year of my apprentice ship. My start in the trade was at a shop that rebuilt/sold many of these engins. They do leak a bit (i seen mostly the older 71 series but seen a few 92) and there is a humerous saying that states if a Deroit stops leaking its out of oil. They also have many nick names like green grenades (92 usually are painted silver but the 71 were almost all green) as a untrained mechnic (from what i understand) could easily have the engin run itself up in the RPM till it blew. Me and another member (nickleinonen) on the site experianced this first hand in school when we left the infamous buffer (rpm hunting adjustment) screw turned in a little too much as we started the engine it took off sending a shiver down you spine we were lucky we prepared and closed the air flap down and had a fire extiguisher ready.

These engins if taken care of are simply amazing and offer great HP # for the time in a small pakage. Nothing in the diesel worl can rev like the two strokes and nothing will ever sound nerly the same. They are relialbe durable power plants and can be very versitile as there use ranged from tanks, boats,trucks/buses and trains to a world speed record trucks. I unfortuantly do not have as much experiance working with them as id like too but there pobly plenty here that can help you out with more indepth questions.

LMJD
Member
Member # 12336
Reged: 03/25/01
Posts: 3158
Loc: Cody, Wy
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1926678 - 08/02/04 05:40 PM

Quote:

I actualy like these motors and find them very intresting.



Yea, you can strip the block bare, turn it around and put it back together, there's no difference front to rear. In some trucks, cabovers, most of the accessories, power steering pump, alternator, etc, are driven off the back of the engine instead of the front. Some series, maybe all, can be set up to run clockwise or counter clockwise. I think there's still a lot of them around here and there. There's a 8V71 cabover pulling a big fertilizer tank around here that you can hear coming from 1/2 mile away. I saw a 3 53 or 3 71 in a paver yesterday on a highway job.

Yes, you can get in deep doo-doo setting the rack if no one's warned you what not to do. I haven't touched one in years, and retirement is NOT over-rated, but I still have my two little injector height step gauges.

99SD
Member
Member # 40608
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 27
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1927062 - 08/02/04 09:24 PM

The 6V92's were 300 or 350 hp and mated with either an MT654 trans, or an MTB654 trans, and one big throttle delay, which, was usually misadjusted or disconnected after it left bluebird. The 6V92 wanderlodges were not that spectacular.

The 8V92's were rated at 475 hp, and were either DDEC I or DDEc II engines mated with an HTB748/741 or and HT755. Many had Jake brakes as an option - but left the factory with a switch for either Jake Brake or Trans retarder, but not both. Yep you guessed it. This switch often went bad after leaving the factory.

One thing for sure with either of these engines - don't tow a light colored car behind it! Beautiful white tow cars often look like dalmations after a trip!!!

Either will be a nice riding coach. And built to last!!

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1927449 - 08/03/04 01:30 AM

Are you going to buy it? What is it do you want to know? DO NOT RUN THE AIR BOX DRAINS BACK TO THE OIL PAN. Unless you want to buy an overhaul with a crankshaft and block. Ok, it is a 2 cycle, Members stated about right on Horsepower. Engine series you asked about is most likely not electronically conroled. It has a mechanical governor on it. If it is in a motor home [you said it was] it most likely has jake brakes. Low will be R bank and of course hi will be both banks. Make sure that the motor home has been driven recently. Try to get info on maintaince ect. Has it just sit for ??? years and not driven or started? If so, change all fluids especially the engine oil AND coolant. Flush out the old diesel if possible. Do not let the engine idle to much, try to keep it at fast idle when starting and warming up. Note: if your coach does drip from the air-box tubes,[slobber tubes sometimes called] you can do 2 things. Either install or have installed a "air-canister kit". or make one. This will route the drain tubes to a small canister while allowing the drains to flow open at idle. Keep in mind that these tubes are usually equiped with a check valve so they will stop pushing air when you operate the engine or are at a n/l operation. You can add the check valves if not equiped with them. Yes I still work on them. I actually am working on one in the shop now. Ask away questons, I will respond with answers.

Copper
Member
Member # 5010
Reged: 01/26/00
Posts: 984
Loc: Inverness MT and/or Center CO
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1927746 - 08/03/04 09:38 AM

Hey, where are the check valves located? I'm thinking my couple don't have them -

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1929082 - 08/03/04 11:14 PM

There should be 2 used on a turbocharged engine. I hope we are talking Vee engine. Inline only has 1. Look where the air-box drains come off the block. One is usually slightly above the starter bolow the air-box covers. The other one is usually above the oil coolers on the right side. Now for the fun part. If you have the older style block, the drain holes will be 1/8 inch pipe. The new style blocks will be 1/4 pipe. Run a short pipe nipple to a street tee. Plug 1 end. Install the special check valve in the male thread end. You can use any kind of drain hose [cheap stuff] with a #6 female swivel. I like to have the drain tubes extend below the oil pan to eliminate the drain mess. The check valves will allow the air to flow at idle, maybe at high idle. The pressure at any kind of load will close the valves. The air cannister has tubes to have the air-box drains enter it. The air is directed out the bottom of the cannister. There is a tube in the bottom that goes almost to the top of the cannister to catch the residue coming out the drain tubes. There were a couple of motorhome drivers that made several with coffee cans and brillo pads for a catch-all.

TwinCreek
Member
Member # 33123
Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Kentucky
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1974865 - 09/02/04 02:00 PM

Have bought the 1984 Bluebird with 6v92 silver.

Man is to deliver it Sat.

What I thought was a plus I find by checking may be a bad thing.

The coach has had Amisoil multi vescosity syn. engine oil and not

the recomended 40wt.

Is this likely to cause problems?

Has been used for several years, proly 50,000 miles or so.

Coach has 130,000 miles.

THANKS,Marvin

FleetMan
Member
Member # 16015
Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 1167
Loc: Western WA
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1974911 - 09/02/04 02:29 PM

In the mid to late '80's, I had a fleet with about 20 8V92's, green and silver. We switched from 40 wt to 15W40 and saw no significant increase in oil consumption or experienced any lubrication related problems. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

randydupree
Member
Member # 47923
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 55
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1976559 - 09/03/04 04:36 PM

twincreek,i've had bluebirds for over 15 years,all with 92 series detroits.if you need any help with anything on your bird contact me or even better check out www.wanderlodge.org

TwinCreek
Member
Member # 33123
Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Kentucky
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1976739 - 09/03/04 07:01 PM

Thanks Randy.
Sure I will need lots of info. about the Bird, seems to have a lot of different systems.

Firt thing need to decide is wheather to continue with the Amsoil syn. multi-grade or go to the recomended low ash 40 weight.

I should have researched more before purchase I guess, that was one reason I bought the coach was because it had syn. last ten years.
Now i find out it needs a special low ash straight weight and the multi grade may shorten the life of the engine?
thanks, marvin

juggernaut300
Member
Member # 41619
Reged: 04/08/04
Posts: 358
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1976766 - 09/03/04 07:33 PM

Damn right! 2 stroke detroit diesels kick ass, I wish I could swap one into a pickup truck, anyone know if its possible and what size would fit?

Dave Haven
Member
Member # 151
Reged: 10/23/00
Posts: 2802
Loc: Near Flagstaff, AZ
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1976904 - 09/03/04 09:25 PM

Quote:

.....I wish I could swap one into a pickup truck, anyone know if its possible and what size would fit?


It's been done. I've seen a couple of pickup trucks powered by 4-53's. With a turbo, it would probably do quite well.

Stroked550
Member
Member # 35299
Reged: 10/05/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Litchfield, Ohio
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1977053 - 09/03/04 11:00 PM

I've seen a '77 F-250 with a 3-71T, a 70's chevy with a 4-53, and 2 70's chevys with 6v-53's. The 6v-53's were a little more work and the trucks both were 4wd with heavier springs, don't know if a stock 2wd front end would handle it.

randydupree
Member
Member # 47923
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 55
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1977055 - 09/03/04 11:03 PM

put a 4bt cummins in your truck,much lighter,or it you just gotta have a detroit use a 353,it fits better. if you got a good deal on the bluebird it will be fine!

Kenworth
Member
Member # 1796
Reged: 01/07/01
Posts: 5372
Loc: British Columbia Southern Corner of the Westcoast
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1977698 - 09/04/04 01:42 PM

As I said before you should flush the engine good with a higher detergent oil for a short period of time to scavenge up the crap that has built up over the years. Then start running a 2 stroke approved oil myself I don't beleive in synthetic oil why they would use it in a 2 stroke is beyond me. You never can stop a detroit from dripping so using a expensive oil is a big waste of money.

When you do the oil change make sure you do it in a area where you don't mind spilling some oil on. Any engine oil that comes out of a 2 stroke detroit is blacker than black getting any on your clothes never comes out your hands have a nice shade of black for a week.

Jimmy oil works good if you need a coating to put on some wood that is gonna be buried in the ground.

Oh ya one risk of changing oil is you may end up with some leaks once the goo inside the engine starts to release itself. It is pretty hard to keep a Detroit from dripping a contractor I worked for has a 8v92 in one of his trucks first week after the rebuid was good no leaks second week the leaks were back dripped just like it used to.

One other contractor I work for has a 6v92 in one of his trucks when your working under it you go under the truck as a caucasion come out african american

The truck never ever goes to deliver topsoil or gravel to places with nice white clean concrete driveways because the 6v92 drips so bad.



KW

DaveBen
Member
Member # 33518
Reged: 07/20/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Northern California
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1977915 - 09/04/04 05:14 PM

I had a 8V92 in a dump truck and it never leaked. It was not new, either. I kept after it a lot.

Dave

Kenworth
Member
Member # 1796
Reged: 01/07/01
Posts: 5372
Loc: British Columbia Southern Corner of the Westcoast
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1978837 - 09/05/04 01:36 PM

I don't know how you can keep a Detroit 53-71-92 from dripping its oil both the 6v92 and 8v92 leak oil 90% of the 2 stroke powered trucks drip oil.




KW

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1979640 - 09/06/04 02:45 AM

Excessive idling does it all the time. If it is a concern and you don't want to see the drips from idling, install the 'air-box drain kit'. Then just check it once in a while. I installed these on the fire trucks at the airport in town here, light work will cause some leakage also. I have also installed them on low use gen sets.
About the synthetic mentioned, I have seen it used on some off road drill applications from equipment from Alaska and other cold climates. They seem to be all right with the useage. Still it is up to the owner if further use of a synthetic oil is needed. Maybe a personal selecton. I just prefer syn. in the auto transmissions. I have the jury out on the syn. in the engine.

TwinCreek
Member
Member # 33123
Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Kentucky
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1979942 - 09/06/04 12:51 PM

The coach has only 1800 miles on curent oil change. Guess will wait till spring to change, take sample and make up my mind what oil to use. I have always used Mobile One in the engines i wanted syn. in but I notice the Amisoil has less ash , .5 so may be better in the 2 cycle?
And yes has syn. in transmission. Previous oner says he knows DD's are supposed to consume oil, but this one uses hardly none, of corse he only drove it one year and 2000 or so miles between changes.
thanks, marvin

Birken Vogt
Member
Member # 2535
Reged: 08/16/99
Posts: 4431
Loc: Penn Valley, Ca
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1980215 - 09/06/04 05:15 PM

Less than 1.0% is all they say about ash. I doubt much research has gone into synthetics and multigrades in 2-cycles since for the most part they were on the way out 10 or 15 years ago...so any information is going to be at least part speculation I am afraid.

How much do you expect you will use it? I wonder if you would see any benefit from continuing to use a synthetic, or just switching it back to straight 40 dino.

Birken

Kenworth
Member
Member # 1796
Reged: 01/07/01
Posts: 5372
Loc: British Columbia Southern Corner of the Westcoast
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1980306 - 09/06/04 07:04 PM

Lets put it this way if your going to be driving this bus alot better buy yourself a 45 gallon drum of oil or 5 gallon pails. I can't see it being cost effective to run synthetic oil in a Detroit your really not benefiting anything. I sure would be curious if synthetic oil turns as black as dino oil does in a 2 stroke. Like I said "Jimmy Black" is terrible it stains everything if you spill some on the ground its stained black permenantly. I wonder if the engine would runnaway on oil fumes if it ever did happen ?



KW

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1980331 - 09/06/04 07:23 PM

I will agree about the cost of syn. oil in an application where not much useage is done. However your cute comment on leakage is old and out dated. The old engines had a steel ring in the 2 piece piston asembly, this is where the problem came from. Back about 20 or so years they switched to a black made rubber product [can't remember name] to take the place of the steel ring. This indeed worked wonders for the 2 cycle design. However idling and low work useage will allow the 2 cycle to drip from the air box drains. Also if the old style blower seals are still in useage the oil will pass these seals and again weep out the drains. I agree to take along a 55 gallon drum of oil, however take it along only if oil is scarce and you plan on changing it on the road.
If you think the 2 cycle oil is bad and stains, you should come down here and see what the oil is like in the city transit busses on the 4 cycle engines. There are several fleets running series 60 engines and I swear these engines have never had an oil change. This oil puts the 2 cycle oil to shame. 2 cycle oil any day to that stuff.

randydupree
Member
Member # 47923
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 55
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1980417 - 09/06/04 08:41 PM

i have found that most people that talk bad about the 92 series detroits have never owned or driven one.everybody relates a 53 or 71 to a 92.its a totaly different deal.i've had 4 different bluebird buses with 2 6v92s and 2 8v92s.none of which used oil.what i mean by not using oil is 1 gal per 5000 miles.i just got home from a 6000 mile trip and used 1 gal of oil.and i had a camshaft seal start leaking about halfway,that the first time i ever had a drop of oil on my towed car,and its white!oh,the bus has 135,000 miles on it too,i drive it like i stole it and i use 40 weight rotella changing it every 6000 miles or so.i put the oil out of it into my 453 detroit,now it drips!smokes too!

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1982357 - 09/07/04 11:22 PM

Remove the nut with an impact wrench. [1 1/2 socket] take a steering wheel puller and remove the pulley. Never use a bar on a pulley with an electronic engine. Sensor nibs are on the no-see side of the pulley. Remove the woodruff key. Remove the 3 3/8 socket head 12 point bolts and put a pry bar behind either of the 2 flanges and remove the cam bearing. Clean the gasket surface on the backing plate. Clean the gasket off the cam bearing. drive the seal off and clean the bore where the seal fits. glue a gasket on the backing plate, install the cam bearing and torgue the 3 bolts to 35 lbs ft. install the new seal flush with the cam bearing end. Put a new seal ride [spacer] on the end of the cam. Install the removed woodruff key, install the pulley so the key alignes with the woodruff key. Use a new 'star washer' on the end of the shaft. Install the nut and really tighten it. At least 250 lbs ft. Drink a few and enjoy your next trip. Or just drive it over here to town. There are still a few of us who still remember how to work the 2 strokes.

randydupree
Member
Member # 47923
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 55
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1983560 - 09/08/04 06:44 PM

gonefishing,as soon as i get cleaned up from the hurrican i'll do just what you said! thank you!

Copper
Member
Member # 5010
Reged: 01/26/00
Posts: 984
Loc: Inverness MT and/or Center CO
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1984120 - 09/08/04 11:37 PM

Hey, thanks! Okay, my 8V-92's don't have the check valves (will order tomorrow) but my 6-71 does. Also, it looks like it has two slobber tubes, one on either side . Does that make any sense, on an inline?

One other quick question - the 6-71 is in an '88 General, and it appears it had a mechanical tach. But, the cable's missing, and I can't figure out where the heck it drove from! The tach looks OEM, and the engine's original (the thing only has about 130,000 original on it). But I'll be danged if I can find the tach drive. Any Ideas??

DaveBen
Member
Member # 33518
Reged: 07/20/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Northern California
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1985470 - 09/09/04 08:43 PM

I don't know anything about 6-71's. The tach drive will be on the cam somewhere or the IP. These are the only half speed drives on the engine.

Dave

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1985931 - 09/10/04 12:21 AM

Cam shaft turns same as crank speed on the 2 cycles.

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1985947 - 09/10/04 12:29 AM

The tach can be driven from several places. 2 are on the rear of the engine driven by the camshaft, however not likely because there might be an aircompressor and power steering driven back there. Look on the front of the engine on the front cam cover. Most likely there. There should be an adaptor there with an 'angle-drive'. The cam speed is the same as the crankshaft speed so the drive should be 1:1. There is one other place sometimes, look on the blower side, right side of your engine. Follow the blower back and feel behind the flywheel housing in line with the blower drive cover. [metal tube]. There might be a drive there. I have forotten the drive ratio so forgive me on this factor. I will look it up if you need it. Hope this helps.

The above is only on the inline series. The Vee engines have other places

Edited by Gone Fishen (09/10/04 12:31 AM)

DaveBen
Member
Member # 33518
Reged: 07/20/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Northern California
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1987096 - 09/10/04 08:09 PM

YOU ARE CORRECT!!

Dave

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1930
Loc: Lost Wages, Nevada
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1987375 - 09/10/04 11:36 PM

Where abouts in N CAL.? I ran a shop there for about 10 month's.

DaveBen
Member
Member # 33518
Reged: 07/20/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Northern California
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#1987761 - 09/11/04 10:38 AM

Around the Palo Alto area. I don't currently drive any big rigs.

Dave

TwinCreek
Member
Member # 33123
Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Kentucky
Re: 8V92 Detroit new
#2005850 - 09/22/04 11:07 PM


You are correct Randy.

The previous owner said he knew DD's were supposed to use oil but not this one. I was doubthfull untill just made a trip to Dallas and back to Kentucky. Over 1500 miles so far no oil added, plus the oil chand already had 1800 miles.

I just love this old BB pt 40, the miles just melt away. Thanks for all the help everone. I still need to decide whether to continue to use the multigrade syn. oil or go to DD recomended straight 40 weight.

thanks, marvin

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