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FloridaEd
Member
Member # 34027
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 418
Loc: Hernando Beach, FL
Adding gasoline to diesel fuel
#1963919 - 08/26/04 03:51 PM

I'm pulled up to the diesel pump on SR 50 in Hernando County when this guys pulls up next to me with an Int'l wrecker. We get to talking and he says it's a non-turbo 444 diesel, which is the same as the PSD, more or less. He told me has been running wreckers for over 25 years and bought a PSD the first year they came out, 1983 as I recall. He says since 1873 he's only bought wreckers that were PSD or Int'l 444 engines in all this time. The one he was driving had 270K on it, but he said his son drives a PSD wrecker with nearly 500k on it. He says he's never had a problem with them.

Then, he tells me that, every now and then, he pours a gallon of gasoline in the fuel tank of his diesel wrecker. Anyone heard of this?

I've heard some of the old truckers say they put used oil in with their diesel fuel, but this is a new one to me.

Florida Ed

Ford_Forgotton
Member
Member # 26408
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 6070
Loc: I hate New Orleans
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1963937 - 08/26/04 04:02 PM

1873 huh? old codger!!

DO NOT mix ANYTHING with the newer powerstroke engine. VERY bad for the injectors.

Its not uncommon for some of the older IDI diesels to mix auto tranny fluid, used oil, and various other things into their tank.

While it might burn ok, the crap that comes out the exhaust could be (and most likely is) very dangerous. Above and beyond regular emissions.

Wayne B
Member
Member # 103
Reged: 04/01/99
Posts: 5116
Loc: Ashburn, Va. USA
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1964111 - 08/26/04 05:46 PM

First year for the PSD was 1994. In 1983 the 6.9 MIGHT have need around I don't know.

Gas in the PSD injection system will kill the injectors in short order.

Wayne B

FleetMan
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Member # 16015
Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 1167
Loc: Western WA
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1964247 - 08/26/04 07:09 PM

In the COLD,COLD country, adding some gas to the diesel was a common practice to prevent gelling and aid cold weather starting. Adding kerosene or #1 diesel is the better thing to do under those conditions.

PowerstrokeDogg
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Member # 35608
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1520
Loc: Upper pensula , MI
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1964526 - 08/26/04 09:48 PM

tranny fluid is a good detergent for the Ipumps and injectors in the older IDIs

but i wouldn't put any thing other than DIESEL in a Powerstroke

Bigshow
Member
Member # 37950
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1964699 - 08/26/04 11:11 PM

Quote:

In the COLD,COLD country, adding some gas to the diesel was a common practice to prevent gelling and aid cold weather starting. Adding kerosene or #1 diesel is the better thing to do under those conditions.



I have used kerosene many times when hauling from south to north in the winter to make sure fuel wouldn't gel when I was driving long haul - I saw a few guys pouring a bit of gas into their tanks but I was always scared to try this.

riggler
Member
Member # 21346
Reged: 04/27/02
Posts: 130
Loc: central ct.
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1964760 - 08/26/04 11:47 PM

i got one of the first f250 diesels in new england (from what the dealer said).....it was march of 1982 if i remember correctly, havent bought anything but eversince

AudioMechanic
Member
Member # 32714
Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 173
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1968545 - 08/29/04 10:18 PM

Quote:

DO NOT mix ANYTHING with the newer powerstroke engine. VERY bad for the injectors.




Ummmmm.......oops. A while back I had an injector that sounded (and felt) like it was sticking or missing. My friend recommended that I put a little ATF in with the fuel to help lubricate it. So I did and noticed an improvment. The engine smoothed out and didn't shake the truck when giving it gas after shifting into OD at low RPM's. Since then I have put about a quart of ATF in each tank (I have two) ala my friend's instructions about once a month and haven't noticed any problems. Am I slowely killing my injectors? When I stop putting ATF in it for a while, the truck begins to run rough again and loses power (not a lot but then again, it's always bogged a little on the take off since I got it). It's not bad but I can tell when it's idling becuase the idle flucuates up and down and sounds like one cylinder is not firing all the time.

A guess it's time for new injectors? I hope not cause I have 0$

Ford_Forgotton
Member
Member # 26408
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 6070
Loc: I hate New Orleans
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1968573 - 08/29/04 10:34 PM

Quote:


Ummmmm.......oops. A while back I had an injector that sounded (and felt) like it was sticking or missing. My friend recommended that I put a little ATF in with the fuel to help lubricate it. So I did and noticed an improvment. The engine smoothed out and didn't shake the truck when giving it gas after shifting into OD at low RPM's. Since then I have put about a quart of ATF in each tank (I have two) ala my friend's instructions about once a month and haven't noticed any problems.




I figure since Ford SPECIFICALLY mentions it in the owners manual, they must have a good reason for it. I think because they knew that was a trick on older diesels, but the powerstroke injector inst quite like the old injectors.

I guess a good idea would be to send your injectors in to like SWAMP or someone and have them tell you how they look. If he says good to great! then keep on keepin on!

RenoF250
Member
Member # 8531
Reged: 09/22/00
Posts: 2484
Loc: CalEfornia
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1968580 - 08/29/04 10:38 PM

I highly doubt your injectors are damaged. If they were the ATF would not help how it ran. One quart in a 25+ gallon tank does not make any difference. That said it may not be a good idea to purposely add things such as ATF to the fuel. I think fuel grades etc. vary enough that you would not really notice a gallon of gas or some ATF. But, like I daid it probably still is not a good idea to do on purpose.

AudioMechanic
Member
Member # 32714
Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 173
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1968592 - 08/29/04 10:43 PM

Noted. I know a guy who is trying to sell a set of high performance injectors and an HPOP for very cheap (truck got totalled and the insurance covered it so he's parting out some things). I'm trying to get a hold of them. Hopefully he hasn't sold them yet cause if I need a new set, I aint going stock but I can't afford HP right now. At least the tranny cooler I ordered will improve something.

georgehilton
Member
Member # 10852
Reged: 01/25/01
Posts: 395
Loc: Waverly, Ohio
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1968885 - 08/30/04 06:00 AM

I would see this done quite often many years ago. Even the VW owner manual for the VW Diesel engines recommended gasoline mixed with diesel for winter starting purposes.

But there is a really bad side to mixing gasoline and diesel. It is easy to mix the two in such a way that the mixture is extremely explosive. And, more exposive than either one individually. This is because the vapors sitting in the top of the fuel tank can be more easily ignited by static electricity than would normally be the case with just gasoline or diesel in the tank.

B1powered
Member
Member # 34782
Reged: 09/14/03
Posts: 792
Loc: South Central Pa.
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1978678 - 09/05/04 10:27 AM

Gas added to a diesel is a VERY BAD idea. Small amounts KILL the lubricity!!

Wapitibill
Member
Member # 3647
Reged: 11/05/99
Posts: 383
Loc: Central WI.
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1978754 - 09/05/04 11:50 AM

Just a minor point, but the VW owner's manual DOES NOT 'recommend' the addition of gasoline to diesel fuel. The manual does state that gasoline may be added - up to 1/3rd of fuel volume - in an emergency situation. The manual further warns that even the smallest amount of gasoline makes the entire tankful of fuel as dangerous as pure gasoline.

As you said, a mixture of gasoline and diesel fuel makes for a very dangerous brew. Gasoline is volatile. Fortunatly, the vapors produced by the evaporation of gasoline quickly displace oxygen in a closed container or tank. That's why electrical devices such as fuel pumps and sending units installed in a gasoline tank don't pose a fire hazard despite the low flash point of gasoline. (It's also the reason why you cannont make a handy firebomb by partially filling an incandescent light bulb with gasoline.)

On the other hand there's a lot of oxygen inside a diesel fuel tank. Diesel fuel doesn't produce sufficient vapor pressure to purge oxygen from the tank. But the flash point of diesel fuel is high enough to make accidential ignition all but impossible.

Mixing gasoline and diesel fuel brings out the worst of both. You'll have a serving of explosive gasoline vapors combined with enough oxygen to set them off. Thanks to the low flash point of gasoline, a small spark is all that is necessary to start a fire - a fire that will make full use of the higher BTU's of diesel fuel.

Pat Dolan
Member
Member # 16018
Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 3283
Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1979477 - 09/05/04 11:50 PM

In the earliest days of Rabbit diesels (our first ones were all copper coloured '78 models late in the '77 model year) the manual recommended up to 50% dillution to assist with cold starting. Don't remember when that dissappeared from the operator's manual, but it was there in the beginning.

Pat

Wapitibill
Member
Member # 3647
Reged: 11/05/99
Posts: 383
Loc: Central WI.
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1979890 - 09/06/04 12:01 PM

Pat-

The "1/3 dilution, emergency" advice was in the owners' manuals for my '80 Rabbit and '85 Golf. Maybe VW issued different instructions for vehicles destined for Canada. VW may have considered climate as well as the availablility of blended diesel fuel (at that time.) Mixing in 50% gasoline was probably considered the 'lesser of evils' compared to other measures (ether etc.) that may have been taken to deal with cold starts.

hesutton
Member
Member # 25990
Reged: 10/29/02
Posts: 1040
Loc: Kentucky originally, in Toledo, OH now.
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1980253 - 09/06/04 06:01 PM

Quote:

He told me has been running wreckers for over 25 years and bought a PSD the first year they came out, 1983 as I recall. He says since 1873 he's only bought wreckers that were PSD or Int'l 444 engines in all this time. The one he was driving had 270K on it, but he said his son drives a PSD wrecker with nearly 500k on it. He says he's never had a problem with them.

Then, he tells me that, every now and then, he pours a gallon of gasoline in the fuel tank of his diesel wrecker. Anyone heard of this?





Don't listen to this guy. Just because you drive a diesel, doesn't mean you know anything about them. And, he obviously knows little about Ford diesels. The first PSD was produced in '94. The '83 was an IDI 6.9. Mixing gas with diesel in an IDI 6.9/7.3 is just as stupid as mixing it in a PSD. Lord only knows how the truck has made it that long. I feel sorry for the guy in the service shop who keeps the truck running.

You never know what you'll hear at the gas station, just don't believe all that you hear.

Heath.

Pat Dolan
Member
Member # 16018
Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 3283
Loc: Saskatoon, SK
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1981218 - 09/07/04 10:58 AM

Bill:

Nuts, I still have an '85 Jetta TD, but the owner's manual is long since vanished (it already had 360k on it whey I got it). I am surprised that the gas dillution stuff still showed up in your '85, so now I am really curious what was in our manuals for that period (I was out of the business in '81).

Pat

LoNE WoLF
Member
Member # 946
Reged: 04/25/99
Posts: 170
Re: Adding gasoline to diesel fuel new
#1988959 - 09/12/04 10:27 AM

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