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Anonymous
Unregistered
Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!!
#56644 - 03/29/00 01:35 PM

Hi people.

I just found out the wierdest thing: Detroit Diesel, the makers of the famous 2 stroke "Jimmy" diesel engines 53,71,110 and 149 series (ie 6-71) and builder of the Series 60 4 stroke diesel engines resells the T444E as its Series 30 engine !

Let me say it again: Detroit Diesel sells T444es as their Series 30 engine.

Does anyone other than me find this wierd ?

Kim

biglakegenerator
Member
Member # 5400
Reged: 02/15/00
Posts: 98
Loc: big lake, Alaska
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56645 - 03/29/00 07:38 PM

Kim

Thanks for the information. I for one didn't know.

------------------
Kevin Sanders
Big Lake Generator Exchange & Repair
Big Lake, Alaska
www.biglakegenerator.com

Edited to delete off-topic comments

[This message has been edited by SmokeyWren (edited 04-06-2000).]

Tom Pike
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Member # 3585
Reged: 10/31/99
Posts: 1120
Loc: Trabuco Canyon CA
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56646 - 03/29/00 07:42 PM

Kim, Thanks, I wasn't aware of this either.

Lars
Member
Member # 4321
Reged: 12/15/99
Posts: 80
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56647 - 03/29/00 07:54 PM

Lux, Didn't know about the 444/series 30 but read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that the 40 or 50 series Detroit is the IH 466. Lars

Wapitibill
Member
Member # 3647
Reged: 11/05/99
Posts: 292
Loc: Central WI.
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56648 - 03/29/00 09:26 PM

Kim - In this day and age it's hard (no, impossible) to keep up with who makes what brand name. There are plenty of "strategic alliances" and "badge engineering" buisness agreements out there. You can buy a Honda SUV that's really made by Isuzu with a Mexican version of a GM V-6! Weird? YES!

Detroit Diesel has discontinued production of the 2-strokes a few years ago. It is far too expensive for Detroit to redesign all of their engines at once to comply with regs. That left "gaps" and "holes" in their product line.

Oh, for the good old days when a Ford was a Ford and a Chevy was a Chevy!

Anonymous
Unregistered
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56649 - 03/30/00 10:16 AM

Lars:
re:"Lux, Didn't know about the 444/series 30 but read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that the 40 or 50 series Detroit is the IH 466."

Someone emailed me and told me the Series 40 is the DT530, not the 466. I cannot verify this either way.

Kim


White Buffalo
Member
Member # 5823
Reged: 03/08/00
Posts: 122
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56650 - 03/31/00 12:14 AM

Lux, and Lars,

You both are correct..

Detroit Diesel markets the DT444e as the 30 series and the DT466, DT530e as the 40 Series, but only in applictions Navistar does not market in.. Transit Buses are one.. Gillig and Nova are two bus makers that the DT530 comes in.. The DT444e (30 Series) is used in Athey Street sweepers.. http://www.dieselpub.com /catalog/mftrdtl_ad.asp?from=mftr&PageRef=323&qmftr=NAVISTAR&adv=300472&mftrname=Navistar+International+Transportation+Corp%2E
That link puts you on page 323 go to p324, and p325 that will show the DT466 in the list of engines DT466=7.6liter.- DT530=8.7liter..

The 50 series is a 4 cylinder version of the 60 series..

The Two-strokes are still in production, DDC does not sell them for On-Road applictions though...they do make very few, mostly for Government contracts..

BTW: Perkins markets the DT530 series also..

The reason DDC uses the Navistar is because they didn't have an engine in that power and/or displacement, That will be changing..

Hope this helps..

[This message has been edited by White Buffalo (edited 03-30-2000).]

Copper
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Member # 5010
Reged: 01/26/00
Posts: 489
Loc: Inverness MT and/or Center CO
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56651 - 03/30/00 04:54 PM

Okay, now that the 60 series has been mentioned, here's a question for you -
Detroit has a 12.7 liter 60-series.
John Deere has a 12.7 liter 60-series (as was mentioned above).
The question is this - who actually designed/builds the engine? I've been told that Detroit went to Deere. However, that seems a little far fetched, since Deere was using a Cummins in the same general application only a few years ago. Plus, I don't know any of you folks's experience, but up here we aren't too fond of Deere's diesels. (At least not the big ones - we stay New Holland/Cummins or Challenger/Cat). Anyone know the answer?

White Buffalo
Member
Member # 5823
Reged: 03/08/00
Posts: 122
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56652 - 03/30/00 05:33 PM

Copper,
I will let you answer your own question..

Here are two links to John Deere.. one Industrial Engines the other Farm Equipment+ Engines http://www.deere.com/deerecom/_Engines+and+Components/Deere+Power+Sys tems/Engines/Industrial/default.htmI

http://www.deere.com/deerecom/Farmers+and+Ranchers/New+Equi pment/Tractors/260-425hp+9000-9000T+Tractors/default.htm

And here is the link to Detroit Diesels 50/60 Series http://www.detroitdiesel.com/prod/p6050.htm

Notice a difference?

Detroit Diesel also makes the 60 Series in 11.1 liter and 14.0 liter..


[This message has been edited by White Buffalo (edited 03-30-2000).]

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1392
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56653 - 03/31/00 01:26 AM

The series 30 is the 443 WITH Detroit Diesel Electronic's Yes used on the street sweepers. The series 40 is the 530 WITH Detroit Diesel Electronic's. The series 50 is diesel, series 50G is the Natural gas version. The series 60 comes in 3 versions - 11.1L, 12.7L and the new one 14L.

------------------
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bb shimmed,
4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, K&N filter

White Buffalo
Member
Member # 5823
Reged: 03/08/00
Posts: 122
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56654 - 03/31/00 04:49 PM

Gone Fishen,

The 30 series and 40 series still have Navistar Electronics (Navpak).. I work on them everyday..We have over 75 40 Series in Nova Buses DT530e and ten to fifteen in (DT466)Crane Carrier (trash trucks).
DDC does not hold the Emission sticker for either of the engines, So they don't have DDEC.. I wish they did though, Navistar Electronics stink..

whd507
Member
Member # 1969
Reged: 07/03/99
Posts: 4998
Loc: Lincoln,Ca,USA
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56655 - 04/01/00 06:23 PM

what would it take to convert a PSD into a 30G running on natural gas? with all the talk of restricting diesels here in california, I have been wondering this for a while.

------------------
1997 F-350 CC,XLT,E40D,4.10,LB,DRW,look here to see truck Remember to send your donation to www.ford-diesel.com Quack quack QUACK quackQUACK

Gone Fishen
Member
Member # 1001
Reged: 04/28/99
Posts: 1392
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56656 - 04/06/00 12:17 AM

First of all Do NOT even think of the conversion, Heads,injectorspistons rings electronic's air system ect.ect. Oil that costs $18/gal. US. Stop right there, don't even think about it.
The new gillig busses have DDC electronic's on them, The fire dept is trying them also. The bus company is buying new buses and the series 50 cannot hold the build time so the series 40 comes on line. These are all series 40 530 International's with DDC electrtonic's on them. Confused, I am also. I will have to learn these also I guess. Now why cannot I learn my own engine?

------------------
95 F250,XLT, 4WD, Auto Trans,bb shimmed,
4:10 gears ,Truck Trunk ,Nerf Bars ,crome Mud flaps, Aux. trans cooler, K&N filter

White Buffalo
Member
Member # 5823
Reged: 03/08/00
Posts: 122
Re: Detroit Diesel Series 30 = T444e !!!! new
#56657 - 04/06/00 08:30 PM

Gone Fishen,

Are the 40s prototypes? The reason I ask is because a DDEC4 ECM does not have the capacity to fire the 110Volt injectors on a 40 Series.. We have 100 or more Nova Buses with the 40s and 6/8 Pierce firetrucks in surrounding areas with the 40s They are are all Navpac electronics..

We also have 50/60 Gillig Buses with 50 Series.. The best buses made IMO.. We have done almost nothng to them in three years the transit system has had em.. I cannot say the same for the 40 series in the Novas..

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