Archives >> General Diesel (3/01)

Pages: 1
SteveE
Member
Member # 11886
Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Jenks, OK USA
Red Diesel (farm diesel)
#69914 - 03/13/01 08:07 AM

Does anybody know if farm diesel will hurt the engine, I have been told the only difference in the diesel is the dye they put in. I know you are not supposed to use farm diesel on the road, but sometime it just cant be helped. Any stories out there about using it?

FoMoCo
Member
Member # 9906
Reged: 12/11/00
Posts: 131
Loc: South Texas / North Mexico
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69915 - 03/13/01 08:27 AM

The Farm diesel can have higher levels of Sulphur, but not always. Most farmers use the fuel in thier field trucks and have no problems. Rumor has it that there is also a additive you can use to counteract the dye?


UApilot
Member
Member # 6661
Reged: 05/07/00
Posts: 1532
Loc: Conifer, CO USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69916 - 03/13/01 08:40 AM

I have put it in my '86 once, oops. Only 25 cents worth though. Soon after I bought it. I saw the diesel sign then thought, #1, #2, no difference. Well, I would have put more in except the pump was really slow. Weird?

At least I haven't put in gas! And never will

------------------
UApilot

1986 F-250 XLT Reg cab, 8' bed, 6.9L Banks Turbo, rack, box, plow. Fly 172s.

SteveE
Member
Member # 11886
Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Jenks, OK USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69917 - 03/13/01 09:47 AM

anybody know the additive that FoMoCo is talking about?

BKENG
Member
Member # 8627
Reged: 09/27/00
Posts: 180
Loc: Dighton, Ma. USA.
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69918 - 03/14/01 12:59 AM

I have a friend who is a Statie' and he said there is a 'tracer' additive that will show up on a test strip that is included with the dye. He is a ball buster when it comes to big rigs on the highway,(thats his job) so I would think it's true. Have to ask him about that next time I see him.

------------------
Bruce, '93 7.3 IDI soon to be NOT stock, and a muchly modified CJ-7

Kenworth
Member
Member # 1796
Reged: 01/07/01
Posts: 3710
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69919 - 03/13/01 04:29 PM

Here in B.C. diesel fuel is all the same Marked or not. There is no difference in road fuels and stuff for used on a farm or in a logging camp its all low sulpher.

As for removing the red dye from the fuel you can't unless you are really nice to the delivery guy. The fuel doesn't come out of the truck red, the driver adds the red dye afterwards.

I wouldn't run dyed diesel if you are in a area where the DOT is frequently doing roadside checks. For the price difference between the Pump and dyed its not worth the fine.

Thanks
KW

Zill
Member
Member # 9873
Reged: 12/10/00
Posts: 915
Loc: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69920 - 03/13/01 05:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BKENG:
I have a friend who is a Statie' and he said there is a 'tracer' additive that will show up on a test strip that is included with the dye. He is a ball buster when it comes to big rigs on the highway,(thats his job) so I would think it's true. Have to ask him about that next time I see him.

The Internal Revenue Service (that's right, the IRS) also has Diesel Enforcement Agents that check for illegal on-highway use of red-dye Diesel fuel. I've seen what happens when the IRS catches someone with off-highway Diesel fuel on the side of the highway. It is NOT a pretty site, and it can lead to THOUSANDS of dollars in IRS penalties.



Rodney R
Member
Member # 516
Reged: 04/07/99
Posts: 421
Loc: Hamburg, PA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69921 - 03/13/01 07:20 PM

There is absolutely NO WAY to get the red dye out of the farm fuel. Not only that, but the dye leaves a residue, of sorts, that 'stains' the entire fuel system, and 'pollutes' all undyed fuel that you buy for many, many gallons. It's concievable that it could take years to get all of the red dye out of the system. If you get caught with even the slightest trace of red dye.... get your wallet ready. Something like $1000/per gallon of capacity????

It is interesting to note that the red dye is the second color that they have used. The previous color was green/blue, and road fuel was red. There was a dye for that color switch, but not for the red to clear....

IHsodbuster
Member
Member # 4556
Reged: 12/30/99
Posts: 32
Loc: Cisco, IL USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69922 - 03/13/01 10:00 PM

The red fuel is for off-road vehicles only.
Although in the past it had a higher sulfur content, I believe in 1997 began using lower sulfur fuel for off highway applications due to EPA regulations. Even new farm tractors today must pass EPA standards, therefore turning up the fuel screw on the pump of a new tractor could result in an EPA fine.

smokin
Member
Member # 6045
Reged: 03/21/00
Posts: 60
Loc: Tx,usa
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69923 - 03/13/01 11:17 PM

There is no additive that will take the red color out of the diesel. Here in the states the red dye is done at the refinery, not the driver. At the refinery I use to load out of there was actually loading arm(s) for offroad diesel and loading arm(s) for on road diesel. Not so sure about the staining or it leaving residue, I have been checked after running off road diesel in the truck, luckily I had onroad diesel in the truck at the time. Passed, WHEW!! as of 4yrs ago it was 1000.00 fine right off the bat, plus 100.00 per gallon. After I learned what the fine was......screw the red stuff, aint worth it.

[This message has been edited by smokin (edited 03-13-2001).]

Jpshostr
Member
Member # 8529
Reged: 09/22/00
Posts: 169
Loc: Lynn Center, IL
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69924 - 03/14/01 12:57 AM

We keep 500 gallons of farm diesel on hand all the time. Some people say that it has a higher sulfur content, some don't. I think it changes with the season, as does the mix. During the winter months it is a mix of #1 and #2, in the warmer months it is all #2.

Although we do not have a diesel pickup, several neighbors do. If you put only one gallon of it in your tank, it will take 4-6 full tanks of clear diesel to wash out the dye. You don't want to be caught with the stuff either, big fines, no questions asked.

Don't even think about putting that stuff in a on-road vehicle, even though it is a lot cheaper than what you guys are paying for clear diesel, that won't matter when you get caught.

------------------
2000 K2500, extended cab, 4x4, Vortec 5700, 4.10
'93 Diamond D gooseneck livestock trailer

bdog1234
Member
Member # 11517
Reged: 02/22/01
Posts: 253
Loc: Lubbock, Texas
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69925 - 03/14/01 03:48 AM

I am confused here. I don't use the farm diesel or even have access to it, but isn't it legal to use it in your pickup if it is only for farm use? If so, and if the dye stays in for 5 tanks worth of fuel, isn't it possible for them to fine you when you did no wrong? Say for example a farmer uses his truck for farm use only during harvest and runs farm diesel in it. Once the harvest is over he goes and fills up with regular diesel for on road use. Two tanks later he gets pulled over and still has red dye in his system. How can they ticket him?

ducky
Member
Member # 7528
Reged: 07/13/00
Posts: 1183
Loc: ohio, adams county
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69926 - 03/14/01 05:26 AM

You are playing in the grey area. Most government people feel that farm use means it is not licensed for the road if running off road fuel. You can get in trouble just running down the road from one field to another with the off road fuel.

Wonder if they check tractors and stuff on the road running from field to field?

Birken Vogt
Member
Member # 2535
Reged: 08/16/99
Posts: 1794
Loc: Penn Valley, Ca
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69927 - 03/15/01 12:11 AM

Tractors on the road, as long as they do not or cannot exceed 25 mph, and display that orange triangle thing, are exempt from all regulations, except running into cars and pedestrians I would imagine, and driving on the wrong side, etc.

Birken

Rodney R
Member
Member # 516
Reged: 04/07/99
Posts: 421
Loc: Hamburg, PA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69928 - 03/14/01 07:27 PM

bdog1234 - I think you're getting caught up in the terminology here....

I don't know how they run it in Texas, but here in PA we have two different classes for Farm trucks. The truck I drive around on the roads has what we call a 'farm plate' I can use it just like any other p/u truck, except it has cheaper registration, and a few restrictions - I think it's not supposed to go over 300 miles from home, and it should be used for farm business, but I won't tell if you don't. :-)

The other kind is a 'farm permit.' For those trucks we just get a sticker to paste on the door. It's good for 2 years, and the truck is exempt from normal resistration and inspections. However, it must not go over about 20-30 miles from home. It may only be used for driving between farms, fetching supplies, or going for repairs. You can't take it on a date, or drive it across country, or anything remotely similar. These are the vehicles which we are allowed to use the red diesel in. Essentially, these are considered about the same as a farm tractor, and I suspect that is why they let us use red fuel in them. That law just changed the other year, until then we were required to use the clear stuff in them, just like the garden tractor...

Rodney

crashthings
Member
Member # 10691
Reged: 01/18/01
Posts: 175
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69929 - 03/14/01 11:10 PM

1st.. How are they going to find out that you are using it? They can't just search your truck for the fun of it! That is a violation of the cool piece of paper called the constitution! (not including Semi's and other Commercial vehicles)

2nd.. If anyone comes up and asks you if they can test your tank, say NO! It is no different than a cop asking if he can search the cab of the truck. You can say NO!

All these don't matter if they see you putting it in! But they will need probable cause to search! This even includes the IRS and any other Government Agency.

Just my $.02!

BenTowe
Member
Member # 11766
Reged: 03/05/01
Posts: 135
Loc: Lafayette,TN USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69930 - 03/14/01 11:21 PM

Crashthings,it's probably included under some kind of "implied consent" law,sort of like if you have a drivers' license you are giving consent for a cop to give you a breathalizer test(at least here in TN and KY).Sure,you can refuse the breathalizer,but it carries a hefty fine and a jail sentence,and it's probably the same for checking diesel.Anyhow,I'm not trying it,not till I figure out a foolproof way,anyway (I think I have,and I'll share it when I get it completely worked out).

Ducky is right,just running it when off-road won't work,done checked that out.Only unregistered (for on-road use) vehicles can use the farm gas or diesel legally.Didn't know the tractors had to keep it under 25 though,I know one guy around here with a 12 wheeled tractor that can run nearly 40 mph in it.Also know of a guy who put a 454 Chevy in a Super C Farmall and could go nearly 100 miles an hour.He had a cop friend who used his radar gun to clock him.

------------------
Ben Towe
1997 Ford F-250HD
Power Stroke Turbo Diesel
5 speed,2 wheel drive

K&N filter,chip,headers,4 inch exhaust,new downpipe,propane injection,and more to come soon hopefully.

[This message has been edited by BenTowe (edited 03-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by BenTowe (edited 03-14-2001).]

crashthings
Member
Member # 10691
Reged: 01/18/01
Posts: 175
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69931 - 03/14/01 11:57 PM

BenTowe,

The implied consent you are talking about is what you sign when you get your DL. It's on the DL app in the states that I have had DL's in.

I do know that you do not sign away your rights against unlawful searches! (again, this is excluding Commercial)

I used to be a Cop in CA so I do have a little knowledge on the subject. And the US Constitution is over the whole US. So it should not matter what State you live in.

But caution, it will be your word against the Cops and people tend to believe the Cop, whether he's lying or not!

And I can't see a lot of Cops checking the fuel in the 1st place But who know, I've been wrong before And I'm sure I will be again!

So it's always better not to do it But if I had the chance and I knew it wouldn't hurt the engine, I would use it!(I guess the Red is cheaper because not taxed? or what is it about the Red? This is the 1st I've heard of it!) And when you figure a better way, let us know!!!!

Thanks

SteveE
Member
Member # 11886
Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Jenks, OK USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69932 - 03/15/01 08:08 AM

How about a spare tank in the bed with a farm pump on it. Go underneath the spare tank to a valve in front of your filter so as not to leak back in your regular tank. If they check the spare, so what, it is for farm use in your tractor, if they check the regular tank, it is ok. I am not sure what kind of valve you would need, electronic or manual, but would that work?

Jpshostr
Member
Member # 8529
Reged: 09/22/00
Posts: 169
Loc: Lynn Center, IL
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69933 - 03/15/01 05:19 PM

The reason red diesel is cheaper is because there is no road tax paid on it. Since tractors, combines, and such are off road vehicles, they are allowed to burn it. Trucks are on road vehicles, using the roads that the road taxes are used for. It all comes down the place of husbandry (or something to that effect). The governments definition of on and off road vehicles is the same as I wrote above.

You have no say over whether you will be tested or not. In farm country the likely places for trucks to be tested seem to be at livestock salebarns or auctions, places where a large number of diesel trucks tend to be it since lots of trailers are pulled. I have never seen a checkpoint on a road, or actually seen a test take place, but know that almost every diesel owner around here has had a sample pulled.

If I remember correct, you have to have a special tax exemption number in order to buy red diesel, you have to show proof that you will use it as intended. Farmers and construction companies have no problem with this. This also means that they guy that lives in a housing development and happens to have a diesel truck can't buy it. I also know of no station that sells it through a pump, all of it is delivered in bulk right to the farm (as in our case) or to the worksite for construction companies.

------------------
2000 K2500, extended cab, 4x4, Vortec 5700, 4.10
'93 Diamond D gooseneck livestock trailer

SteveE
Member
Member # 11886
Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Jenks, OK USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69934 - 03/15/01 05:37 PM

jpshoster,
There are several stations around here and I have seen some in Colorado that sell it through the pump. I have a farm permit to buy red diesel for my farm equip., but just didnt know the risk on the engine. Dosent look like there are any risks on the engine, only if you are on the road with it.

StrayCAT
Member
Member # 2961
Reged: 09/18/99
Posts: 1691
Loc: FLA (USA)
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69935 - 03/15/01 07:12 PM

There are stations and some truck stops that sell it thru a pump located in various area around the country. You do however have to show a tax permit or have been previously registerd with them.
It is legal to run untaxed diesel fuel in a reefer unit of a big truck. That is the 55 gallon or less tank that hangs under a refrigrated trailer.
All sales of untaxed diesel are logged in a book at time of retail purchase along with all pertinent information of the persons making the purchase. Stations, jobbers and marina's are audited on a regular basis. This keeps the untaxed stuff in check and the states money properly flowing.

------------------
99.5 "SHORTY" 4X4 Goodrich HiddenHitch Hypertech Mag-hytec Extang torklift Air-Lift K&N Edelbrock Fomoto TurboBrake Hellwig Stanadyne Garmin LANCE campers H-D & CHIMMY Happy :) Trails OOIDA Life Member Ford-Diesel

SteveE
Member
Member # 11886
Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Jenks, OK USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69936 - 03/16/01 10:14 PM

Just checked my local station, red diesel is about .20 cents a gallon cheaper than regular diesel. It is currently 1.139 a gallon. Regular diesel is 1.299

BenTowe
Member
Member # 11766
Reged: 03/05/01
Posts: 135
Loc: Lafayette,TN USA
Re: Red Diesel (farm diesel) new
#69937 - 03/16/01 10:31 PM

I work at the Farmers' CO-OP and we sell it thru a pump marked farm diesel.Our regular diesel is $1.399 and farm diesel is $1.029.The Diesel Enforcement guys are working the county over this week,several people have been caught.Only reason I ain't been checked is cause I've not been driving it this week since I dang near broke my ankle over to work Wendsday (stumbled off the steps at the dock),I ain't been able to push the clutch very well.I won't be suprised if I'm checked tomorrow when I go to work and fill up in the morning.

------------------
Ben Towe
1997 Ford F-250HD
Power Stroke Turbo Diesel
5 speed,2 wheel drive

K&N filter,chip,headers,4 inch exhaust,new downpipe,propane injection,and more to come soon hopefully.

Pages: 1



Contact Us TheDieselStop.Com

*
UBB.threads™ 6.3


All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies.
All else is Copyright 1997-2003 TheDieselStop.Com.
All Rights Reserved

TheDieselStop.Com Privacy Statement
Advertising on TheDieselStop.Com

This site is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company or International Truck and Engine Corporation.