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procyon
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Posts: 731
Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ?
#1135796 - 03/22/03 07:58 PM

Anyone know how much treated pine weighs versus rough cut oak of same thickness ? Or aprox. how much heavier a 24 foot long gooseneck trailer would be with an oak floor versus one just like it with treated pine floor ?

guss
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Loc: frankfort ohio
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1135909 - 03/22/03 09:28 PM

it would probly weigh 50 100lbs more,but if you are going to put any weight on it go with oak thats what all heavy equipment trailers have.the pine will break pretty easy.

procyon
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Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136147 - 03/23/03 12:19 AM

One trailer maker told me their 32 footer weighs 1,200 lbs more with oak floor versus pine. That's an unexpectedly high difference but your figures are unexpectedly low. So I still don't know what to think.

AlH
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Loc: SC USA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136339 - 03/23/03 03:17 AM

Oak will be alot heavier. I put a floor in between the steel floor of my car trailer. I wanted oak too, until I saw the price of oak so I went with treated pine.
Dry oak weighs about 1.6 times what pine weighs.

The_Bundo
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Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136366 - 03/23/03 04:13 AM

It would definitely be more than a hundred pounds. But for durability, no comparison. And you could go a little thinner with the material and still be stronger & have more surface durability.

SteveRacer
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Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136403 - 03/23/03 06:14 AM

I disagree.

PT SYP is one of the most durable, strong, and resiliant woods you can buy.

Oak may be denser, but to claim that it is somehow "stronger" needs to be qualified. And pine is naturally more "durable" in terms of rot and insect damage, as it tends to be sappy, acid, young, and usually not kiln dried.

The biggest problem with pine is that it is not dimensionally stable. What is perfectly straight one day becomes cupped, warped, and twisted when the temperature changes or it gets really wet.

However, it's likely to go right back to where it was.

I have PT SYP for my open trailer decking, and it's as tough as nails. It moves around a lot, and some days I have 1/4" gaps between the planks, and other days you can't slip a piece of paper between them. I bolted it down at every cross beam, and it stays in place even though you can tell it wants to shrink and swell and move around.

Treated pine is also about 1/4 or less the price of oak, and that's assuming you can even find oak in standard board sizes thick enough for trailer decks.

I learned what little I know from www.woodadvisory.com , the owner is a racing buddy and assured me that #2 SYP boards from Home Depot was the strongest most cost effective solution for trailer decking. Finding good boards without knot dropouts and bad warps takes some patience and picking, but it's a lot easier than ordering $1000 worth of oak lumber that you can't inspect until it's delivered.

-steve

FleetMan
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Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 1165
Loc: Western WA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136437 - 03/23/03 07:58 AM

Check with an over the road commercial trailer repair shop for laminate floor material. It is dimensionally stable and is offered in different thicknesses and is easy to work with.

procyon
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Posts: 731
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1136463 - 03/23/03 08:38 AM

Fleet,laminte floor material is nice but there's got to be a reason you only see it used on ~enclosed~ trailers. I suspect that reason has to do with excessive wood movement after rain/sun exposure or perhaps glue failure or perhaps the use of shorter boards laminated end to end in the laminate are subject to falling out. I have a laminate hardwood floor in my 1995 Freightliner straight truck which has one "hole" in it where a shorter board fell out of the laminate.


Steve- I tend to agree with what you say about PT Pine being durable. It is the dimensionally unstable bit that is indeed annoying, as I've had trailers where the boards cupped and shrank so much that the trailer just "looked" screwball. And pine does tend to "sag" more when heavy weight is applied between cross support beams. But I never actually broke a board, so it's probably fine in the end really.

Re cost, Kaufman Trailers will install an oak floor for only $200 more (than pine) on a 24 foot (with added 5 foot dovetail) gooseneck....so with that little cost difference oak is still tempting....but not if it also adds 1,000 lbs to the traile weight. I think Kaufman said it would add something like 500 pounds to the weight (the higher figure I originally quoted was from a trailer dealer in FL who sells PJ Trailers of TX).


Joshs1100
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Posts: 306
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1137106 - 03/23/03 07:44 PM

The 24' goosenecks I was looking at when I bought mine weighted about 600 lbs more with oak. I opted for pine since I never haul equipment with steel tracks. Steel tracks will tear up a pine deck in no time.

etue1
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Reged: 10/20/02
Posts: 463
Loc: central ohio
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1137255 - 03/23/03 08:52 PM

Oak is by far more durable than treated syp IMO
Joshs1100 is right. steel tracks syp is useless.

Edited by etue1 (03/23/03 08:55 PM)

SteveRacer
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Loc: Rockland Co. NY ____________________ SCCAHistoricSeries KC2JLJon147.165MHz ____________________ DesignEngineering MachineShopOwner
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1137725 - 03/24/03 02:30 AM

I agree, my opinion was based on hauling things with tires (race cars) and not anything with steel tracks.

SYP is certainly softer than oak, and will gouge and tear, and drop the knots (there are many) from something like steel tracks.

I also haul a lot of equipment, i.e. machine tools and such like Procyon's avatar. I usually roll these on the trailer using roll bar tubing (.125 wall DOM pipe), and then drop them down flat onto throwaway planks with a big Johnson bar dolly.

This keeps the pine from getting dug in and damaged.

Oak would do better, but I'm just not ready to conceed there is a signifigant difference in sheer and tensile. Compression, probably a lot better.

If it's a few hundred dollars, no debate. When I went to replank my trailer, and replace the rotted out kiln dried Douglas Fir, the cost was much different - $85 for a #1 16' 2x10 in oak, vs. $22 for a PT SYP #2 from Home Depot. Despite the DIY effort I figured I could redo it in 10 years and still be ahead money wise.

If you decide on oak, and perhaps you should - make certain all exposed surfaces are coated with a good epoxy or high alkyd urethane paint. I've never seen PT oak available, and insect damage is what killed my first trailer deck, so if you're going to spend the extra money for oak I'd protect your investment with a $35 gallon of paint and some elbow grease.

Best wishes-

-steve

procyon
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Posts: 731
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1137906 - 03/24/03 09:16 AM

Procyon's "avatar" ? What the heck is an avatar ?

For the record my use is hauling machine tools, which are usually set on from the side using a forklift. Sometimes the machines are set on seperate timbers and sometimes direct on the trailer floor...depends somewhat on whether the machine is picked up from the bottom or higher up, whether the bottom has fork slots, etc.

Seems the ideal open trailer floor just doesn't exist...at least not at affordable cost. Teak would be good, but would cost more than the trailer it's screwed to. Seems like PT birch or some other "in between" hardwood of that ilk would be ideal and affordable...maybe poplar or one of the cheaper mahagony species....but PT versions of these hardwoods don't exist as far as I know.

SteveRacer
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Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1138335 - 03/24/03 03:44 PM

Quote:

Procyon's "avatar" ? What the heck is an avatar ?




It's the small gif under your name. "Avatar" is derived from a sanskrit word meaning "an incarnation in human form, an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person"

Yours appears to be a mill, or perhaps a jig bore. Mine is a picture of me racing at Watkins Glen, followed by a smiley driving wildly, followed by a gearhead smiley.

You really should spend less time worrying about work and more time obsessing over and animating your AVATAR.

-steve

P.S. A 4x8 sheet of CDX 11/32" plywood is a cheap investment to protect your trailer surface from machine tool bases. I nail down the corners if I'm getting a tool forked onto the trailer. If I roll the machine on tubing or skates, I'll go right on the deck.


Kenworth
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Loc: British Columbia Southern Corner of the Westcoast
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1138679 - 03/24/03 07:57 PM

All that gets used around here is Doug Fir it lasts the longest you can use Pressure treated its usually Hemlock sometimes fir but mostly Hemlock. Most truck decks are 2x6s T&G Fir it stands up well the decking on my truck has been on the truck for well over 4 years probably longer. My old truck deck has seen lots of abuse it the wood will last another year or two the wood has never been painted it seen a fair share of use old from the scrap iron I have hauled.

If you don't want to replace the decking on the trailer but just want to cover it 3/4" Fir plywood works you screw it down or bolt it what ever you prefer. When the sheet gets all ruffed up and look bad take it off replace it with another one its a cheaper option.

Keep in mind we have the wettest weather here on the West Coast along with the salt air if it doesn't rot or rust in a year you know your doing good.

KW


Believer45
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Reged: 12/17/00
Posts: 2173
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1139065 - 03/24/03 10:54 PM

Just to throw another idea into the pot, when I was in trailer leasing we used Apitong wood on our flatbeds. I do not know where you would get it - I had a source about 60 miles from Cincinnati. You could check with companies that either sell or repair flatbed semi-trailers. That wood is all but indestructable and impervious to weather. It has been a while (10+ years) since I was with AJF so I have no idea what cost would be.

The laminates referred to earlier are great for freight boxes but weather will cause them to delaminate. They were not designed for out-in-the-weather use.

Dave / Believer45

procyon
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Posts: 731
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1139135 - 03/24/03 11:26 PM

A friend of mine in Washington state mentioned that Apitong is popular for trailer flooring in his area too...but I'd never heard that species in my life and I used to do woodworking for a living so I figured he must have the name wrong ! Sounds like a better choice than oak but I suspect whoever makes my trailer will be in GA or NC, so they will not have a source of Apitong...fustrating...

Believer45
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Reged: 12/17/00
Posts: 2173
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1139317 - 03/25/03 02:45 AM

Quote:

whoever makes my trailer will be in GA or NC, so they will not have a source of Apitong




My source was in Washington Courthouse, Ohio. I would check before I gave up. Have the manufacturer contact a semi-trailer dealership and ask for a referral to get Apitong. They should be able to get you a price at least.

CLICK HERE to go to a company that has a lighter weight alternative called TransDeck Flooring.

Click on PDF FILE to go to information on my old source in Washington Courthouse, Willis Lumber.

ANGELINA HARDWOOD is another supplier of Apitong flooring I believe out of Texas.

FONTAINE TRAILER MFG has a dealer locater form you can fill out (their web site dealer locater is under construction) and they will let you know where the nearest dealers are for you. They use Apitong on their flatbeds and should be able to get it for you.

Dave / Believer45

procyon
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Reged: 01/09/03
Posts: 731
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1139424 - 03/25/03 08:11 AM

"Washington Courthouse" ?? Sheesh, that's almost as silly a name for a town as near where I used to live Lizard Lick, NC

Thanks for the Apitong and alternative links, I'll check them out

tool_
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Reged: 02/14/03
Posts: 50
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1139939 - 03/25/03 03:28 PM

If it were me and I could have it at a reasonable cost i'd have the Oak in a heartbeat. It's just a great wood. I've never had that much like with pt anyway. It never seems to last like they claim and pine is just too soft for a trailer deck.

Most of my experience is with stock trailer floors (which tend to not last really long because of the manure, urine moisture etc.) Best floor i ever had I had sawn at a local tree service. it was 3" Maple Now that was a floor! Yes it was heavy though.

Remember that the floor (especially in a stock trailer) is one of the most important components of your trailer. Don't scrimp!

Poplar???? In my experience poplar is gofor (go for some more!) and rots very quickly.

I have no experience with it but I have seen floors made of some type of plastic planking used in stock trailers and manure spreaders. It may be a good alternative. Relatively lightweight, strong and lasts a lifetime. Might be something to look into?

house
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Reged: 06/22/01
Posts: 182
Loc: riverside, ca
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1140078 - 03/25/03 05:09 PM

My favorite setup for trailer floor is pine, but i space them out a bit so that it breathes betters, about .5 to .75 inches between 2x10 planks then cover them with fibergrass reinforced rubber matting. This stuff is tough as nails and can normally be gotton from your local UPS, as they use it for conveyer belting, and are more than happy to give it to you b/c it is considered hazardous waste.

Just my opinion

nickolas

procyon
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Reged: 01/09/03
Posts: 731
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1140696 - 03/25/03 11:05 PM

Quote:


Poplar???? In my experience poplar is gofor (go for some more!) and rots very quickly.

I have no experience with it but I have seen floors made of some type of plastic planking used in stock trailers and manure spreaders. It may be a good alternative. Relatively lightweight, strong and lasts a lifetime. Might be something to look into?




Read my post more carefully, I didn't say poplar, I said PT poplar. Re the plastic flooring, already looked into it...not strong enough for my use (machine tools, forklifts)

tool_
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Reged: 02/14/03
Posts: 50
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1141553 - 03/26/03 02:03 PM

Hmm..... okay I guess pt would be better than not. But personally I wouldn't use poplar of any kind. I hate the stuff. But to each his own.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the plastic type would be like in that kind of application?????

It does get used in floors that see some very heavy loads. And I think it would stand up to gouging and what have you as far well as wood as it seems to be pretty hard material. However I'm not sure about the psi aspect of it when dealing with machinery???? You'd have to check it out with a manufacturer... It would probably depend on your crossmember spacing of the trailer.


Also... what about steel checker plate or simalar??? Extruded metal as used in wagon racks and such could be an option but with machinery and tools it may tend to catch?

MATT BROSS
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Loc: Williamstown, Mo - U.S.A.
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1142868 - 03/27/03 08:52 AM

My 24 foot GN flatbed has an oak floor. It is a 1997. A guy ordered it, and then backed out. I bought it, and have been nothing but happy! I put a fresh coat of Linn seed oil on her every year. She is just as solid today as the day I brought her home. My dad has a 1990 16 foot utility trailer. He just put his 3rd floor in it last fall. He has been using pine and painting it.

There is no comparison! There is not enough weight difference to even worry about.

bgirls
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Reged: 04/08/01
Posts: 305
Loc: Flint Hill, Virginia
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1145938 - 03/29/03 08:12 AM

i did a quick search on google and found that apitong is a malaysian hardwood.

Bigfoot62
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Reged: 12/23/02
Posts: 633
Loc: Hornbeck, Louisiana, USA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1146894 - 03/29/03 10:52 PM

Just my $0.02 worth.
Untreated southern pine or fir is probably fine where many of you are. Down here in the Gulf South, untreated "softwood" trailer flooring will rot off the trailer in about two years. Can you say "mildew"? No disrespect intended, but I see farmers up north or out west leave square bales of grass hay outside all winter. Can't do that down here. We have to use treated pine or oak if we don't want to re-deck our trailers here. Treated pine will last for many years (unless you're hauling track machinery) and oak will usually last for 8-10 years. BTW, oak doesn't necessarily have to cost more than treated pine. I know several people with small portable sawmills.

GG
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Reged: 01/22/01
Posts: 3788
Loc: Mulberry, Florida, USA
Re: Pine floor vs oak floor on equipment trailer..weight difference ? new
#1147203 - 03/30/03 07:28 AM

Like Bigfoot mentioned...treated pine here. Have it in my work trailer.
Built in 95. Have not done much of anything with it to this point.
Pressure clean it out every so often.
Still as good as new yet.

It's an open 18ft.tandem utility.

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