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What does the Turbo sound like just before it fails?

8K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  JoeF350 
#1 ·
hey guys-

I was towing my trailer and bikes this last weekend up the grapevine going to Gorman and the 6L started to lose power when the engine compartment made this super high pitched squeel followed by a loud buzzing sound. Then, a small pop and huge power loss.
Had to crawl at 20MPH up the grade.

Question is does anyone have a Turbo Failure on the 6L that can recall exactly what it was like just before it dumped? When I got back, I dumped the oil and there was powder like metal in the oil. Took to the dealer and told them I believed the Turbo was on it's way out.
They said they did a boost test and all was OK. I said BS, pull it out and put a new one in.

Any idea's, Grampy, what do you think?
 
#2 ·
I had very similar symptoms. Mine never made the pop noise, or drastic power loss. But I did get a high pitched whine and a noticeable power loss. I brought it to Ford last week, they replaced headgaskets and also told me my turbo was fine. I pick the truck up tomorow and see how it pulls the trailer this coming weekend. I'll do my best to try and post back with my results.
 
#3 ·
How do they know the turbo is "fine" without taking it apart and looking at the vains and such? The dealer I am at told me the same thing. I told them to replace it, or eat it when I bring it back and feed it to them after it fails.

Please, do repost after you tow. I was suppossed to go back to SoCal this weekend, but I am so worried about dying hard on the Grapevine, I wont go without a new or recon turbo.
 
#5 ·
Darsey-
I'm in Morgan Hill, West Side.
No Mods. Bone Factory Stock.
Trucks at Ford Store in MH.

See you ride too. D36?
Me CC and Desert.
 
#7 ·
you have any issues like this?
 
#9 ·
There's enough different ways that a turbo can fail that there isn't one particular sound that will announce it's passing... I had one, a long time ago that the owner stated that he thought the transmission was going out... a horrendous scraping noise any time the turbine changed speed. Other failures will make no noise at all....

Everything starts with what happens at the service desk.... How the customer explains the concern - how the service writer interprets it and writes it on the contact sheet... Word of advice at this point.... The contact sheet should contain enough info for the tech to either reproduce the concern or decide if he is going to undertake any particular diagnostic steps (can you smell the disclaimer coming?), if any at all.

If they performed the boost test that I think they did, the engine never exceeds 1200 rpm. This is a pretty good test since it checks VGT operation and other factors but it isn't the be-all, end-all test. Depending on the information I am given on the RO (which, in our store, at least, will have the contact sheet stapled to it - the RO is a pretty terse description of hwat might be on the contact sheet), I might choose to remove the intake ducting and inspect the impeller for signs of damage and check the shaft for "wall slap"... I might choose to road test the truck to see if I could reproduce the symptoms as described.... I might choose to monitor real world boost pressures during the road test... But I do have to be lead there, to a certain degree, by what I have for a description. I need that <something>... be it in description or what I can recreate in a road test...

And here comes the disclaimer.... This is how I would handle it... This is how my guys would handle it... I can't road test everything that leaves our shop, but these guys have never, ever heard me say "that's good enough" - it's either good - or it isn't.

Unfortunately, and this subject is discussed regularly on another venue, not every shop or every tech shares these values or high standards. And the reasons can be many.... inadequate techs is a big one. These engine management systems are complex and, as FordDoctor so eloquently states, they do separate the men from the boys. And I'm not trying to say that I'm anything special.... I spend a lot of time thinking very hard about the data I have.... logic drives every decision. I digress... Inadequate techs... techs that are faced with DPs that don't offer what training Ford supplies - or production numbers that are unrealistic - or wage packages that reward speed over customer satisfaction... and a lot of situations I can't even imagine.

I apologize for the length of this reply and I apologize that it wandered so much off topic... but there is one last comment....

When you sign the contact sheet... read what the service advisor has written... remember that the tech knows nothing of the situation and needs to know the key factors... and if what he/she has written isn't what you said, don't sign it. This contact sheet is the single most important document in the paper trail that will come from this repair (from a customer satisfaction standpoint).

Thanks for reading...
 
#10 ·
yep, It's there now.
 
#11 ·
Thanks again Grampy.
The thing that got me was the metal in the oil. Looked like metal flake paint, but more powder like. Also, the high pitched screem, then the buzzing rattle sound, then power loss and boost loss. This only occured when towing uphill. Oil also had a burnt look to it, more than when I had changed it in the past.

Now the turbo also makes a sound at idle like an air leak sound, and is much louder than before.

My concern about the metal in the oil when I dumped it after the trip. Never have seen that, and I am pretty anal about fluid control and cleanliness of fluids, every 3k.

Does that help a little? Does this description sound like ea turbo issue, and BTW, this is exactly how I described it as well as other info to the Service Manager and Writer on the sheet.
 
#14 ·
Btravelen sounds like a path- but why the metal in the oil then?
 
#15 ·
My truck makes exact same noise when pulling hard up a hill.

I will be on high rpm, high boost, temp starts to climb, clutch fan is on full blast. After about a minute or so of the grade it will suddenly start to whine really loud. If I let off the throttle, engine eases off and whine stops, and then I have to get back on it for a bit for whine to come back.

I also have the infamous turbo surge while cruising towing.

I have started to have what I would consider the Turbo getting stuck. I will turn truck on and have no boost at all. Massive black smoke, and codes related to turbo position being out of range and boost sensor no-op. I can "unstick" it by driving hard and getting the engine hot.

Dealerships have looked at it but dont find anything wrong and cant reproduce it... yet I have it happen all the time. Im about done with this truck.
 
#16 ·
[ QUOTE ]
My truck makes exact same noise when pulling hard up a hill.

I will be on high rpm, high boost, temp starts to climb, clutch fan is on full blast. After about a minute or so of the grade it will suddenly start to whine really loud. If I let off the throttle, engine eases off and whine stops, and then I have to get back on it for a bit for whine to come back.

I also have the infamous turbo surge while cruising towing.

I have started to have what I would consider the Turbo getting stuck. I will turn truck on and have no boost at all. Massive black smoke, and codes related to turbo position being out of range and boost sensor no-op. I can "unstick" it by driving hard and getting the engine hot.

Dealerships have looked at it but dont find anything wrong and cant reproduce it... yet I have it happen all the time. Im about done with this truck.

[/ QUOTE ]
your dealer sucks. or the tech sucks. find a new one of both. the codes should be enough for them to take care of you. good luck man.
 
#17 ·
Had the same issue the the 6.0 06 in my sig.

Ensure you pull an oil sample for independent analysis. And pull the oil filter and retain. What you will likely find is that flakes are Aluminum, and that the burnt color is large carbon molecules.

Did the tech inspect the run out play on the turbo shaft? Also, if possible ensure that the dealer strain the oil with a cheesecloth. My halfwits when told of contamination said "Duh, nuthin on the magnet" No shi.. sherlock - aluminum and carbon are non ferrous.

Likely the intercooler is contaminated as well. 2 major entry points for metal, one is via the intake, the other via oil return line for the turbo. Consider what metal particles will do for the service life of your engine.....

After much to do with F&^% and BBB and Lemon Law - I decided to dump the 06 as I lost faith in the engine after the contamination.

I now have a 06 Dge 3500 6 speed Cummins.

Good Luck.

CH /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
#18 ·
Coolhand-
Sorry to hear about your 06.
What did that thing sound like just before it went on you?
Yeah, it was aluminum in my oil. Like powder.

I dumped the oil myself and brought over the sample. I replaced the oil/filter right away, and will do so again after the service. They are replacing the turbo assembly today.
I am a little worried about the metal, but have done worse on old fuelers where metal was in the oil system but after inspection, bearings had no marking or gall.

My biggest concern was that the turbo did fail, and they are taking care of it.
I'll keep a close eye on the oil (strain it myself after every change 3k) so hopefully I wont see any more but a particle here and there.
 
#19 ·
It's been my experience that if there is metal in the oil on one of these engines, it probably didn't come from the turbo...

Most often, I find the high pressure pump has failed, or a lifter is coming apart.

If a high pressure pump fails, then there is the possibility of shooting metal into the high pressure system - the injectors don't like that one bit.

If a lifter fails, then the metal generated is usually larger and ferrous - so that's probably not the case with your truck.

Any metal in the system will cause some issues - the screen in the oil pickup has a rather loose weave, so it won't stop anything much smaller than a bowling ball. The first stop for this contaminated oil is the low pressure pump and it's regulator. There are some pretty tight tolerances here, and galling of the front cover and regulator bore will cause problems. If you are lucky (or is it unlucky?) the low side regulator will stick in the full pressure position. Add a high RPM event, and the result is a blown apart oil filter. Now we've got unfiltered oil going everywhere in the motor...

And this could cause a turbo failure.

Make sure the root cause of your problem is addressed before putting the truck back into service....
 
#20 ·
Well, I drove it this weekend, didn't hook up the trailer since it was only myself going to the track without my buddies. I did cruise at a consistant 85-90 MPH there and back (about 2450 RPM), EGT's didn't go over 820, boost stayed right around 8-9 PSI while cruising, and will push just about 34 PSI when wide open. The whine is gone and the truck runs great! No more smelling burning coolant in the cab. Lets just hope the thing will last!
 
#21 ·
When my turbo went south pulling my 5th wheel trailer, it was a loud pop and then huge amounts of acrid white smoke started coming out the exhaust.

Ford replaced the turbo, turbo shaft, egr cooler, and something else to do with the egr. $1900 total repair bill that Ford picked up.

Joe
 
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