I deleted a thread down in 94-97 because a member was performing a service for a fee for members. It is standing policy that the forums may not be used for such purposes.
Keep it all in email and private websites and don't discuss it in the forums and there is not a problem. Posting a thread that publicly thanks the member for performing the service and explicitly mentions a fee will get the thread closed.
Kevin, i never initiated any of those posts. All were written by people satisfied by their IDM and telling others.
If i were to try XYZ companies product and told everyone about it, would the posts be deleted? This is the same thing except i do not work for any company.
What argument could possible come up with to jsustify the deletions. None except this is a private website and if you don't like, too bad.
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'97 PSD CC 4x4 Chip, propane, intercooler, Stage II injectors, IDM mod, dents, cracked winshield, pizza cutters.homepage?
Standing policy is that if you charge a fee for a service, you are a vendor. Part of your advertising has come on the forums - that is where people know of your product. We don't allow that on this site. If you want to talk about your product, you have to become an advertiser.
Having others talk about it is an interesting twist. Still, it boils down to using the forums for the purpose of selling something. Only paid advertisers can do that.
The example you bring up proves my point, though. You are in effect saying that you should be treated like any company that is out there selling stuff. Fine and dandy. We require them to become paying advertisers to sell their product on this site.
Maybe you ought to rethink your example? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Even the posters in the thread realized the verboten nature of the topic. The last one said "the cops are here. Maybe if we are really quiet he will go away." Sounds like everyone was in on the game.
Your IDM mod shows up in your sig, it is something you are selling - that makes you a vendor advertising on the forums.
I can see both sides of the fence on this one except for a few things:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Having others talk about it is an interesting twist. Still, it boils down to using the forums for the purpose of selling something. Only paid advertisers can do that.
The example you bring up proves my point, though. You are in effect saying that you should be treated like any company that is out there selling stuff. Fine and dandy. We require them to become paying advertisers to sell their product on this site.
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It almost sounds like you are saying Joe put the others up to talking about it? Probably a bold assumption on your part if you did. Also Joe's example did not prove your point (go back and read it again ... it is the same example I gave in one of the GSP posts). If I as a member give an endorsement of a product, how do you know if I'm associated with them in any way (you don't)? If I as a memeber give a big thumbs down to a product, how do you know if I'm associated with a competitor (you don't)? How do you guys tell if someone is using the so-called "twist" above? It is beyond my talent. To me (using the logic above) it seems that if you make any product for these trucks or repair them for a fee, that you may not be a member on this board (well, unless you pay to advertise). You could never say a word about any of it, but if some other member happened to give you an endorsement in a post (through no wanted action on your part), you could be banished from the site. Moderators may have to delete any mention of any vendor's name in all posts (unless they are paid advertisers) and any mention of endorsements, etc. Sound ridiculous (it does to me!)?
Don't get me wrong, because the rules are there this is the great site it is. The moderators do a fantastic job in tough situations (like this one). Cheers!
Nope, I never said he put people up to talk about it for him. Never even thought it. But the rule is there because in the past, that has happened. If a rule is only applied now and then, then someone could rightly say that they were unfairly singled out. And we have had situations in the past where others HAD been put up to making endorsements. I don't think that has happened here, but by your own logic, I don't know that it hasn't.
Any member can do stuff for a fee and still be a member. However, they can't advertise or put a link in their sig to a product they sell. It really is advertising at that point and not allowed. He is a vendor, not just a member, when he is selling a product. Consequently, he gets treated differently. You cannot use the forums to talk about your for-sale product if you are a vendor and Joe not only rec'd endorsements, he replied and thus kept the thread alive, which is a way of keeping the conversation going. That also crosses the line.
No one is talking about banishing someone. That is your interpretation and not something that has even been mentioned until you just did, so I think you are over-reacting a tad.
His mod is listed in his sig, he charges others to perform the mod, his website offers the service as well. Makes him a vendor.
The only reason I posted this thread was because I thought the users as a group might not understand the policy. So there ya go.
As I said in my original post, keep it entirely in email and off the forums and it is not a problem. But the forums cannot be used by vendors to advertise their product, apart from the technical merits, without becoming a paying advertiser here.
Your points are valid and I agree with them. I'm just having a hard time understanding some of this. What would happen if I (a member) had a widget for the PSD that I sell, but I make absolutely no mention of it on the site (posts, signature or anything else). Yet the membership likes it and all of a sudden the posts start piling up asking for info. I can't make a post asking everyone to email me, or asking them NOT to post about it, because I would be keeping the thread alive. I couldn't do anything (except maybe privately email them?)! I'm really not trying to be a pain, just confused. I haven't seen any mention of deletion of any of the "other brand" (don't want to mention any names) modified injector posts, so how are they different? Maybe an explanation on the way they are handled would further clarify this? Cheers!
First, if you truly don't want it discussed on the forums, and ask people not to discuss it, I doubt you'd mind if we enforced your wishes by deleting the thread, eh?
Also, I think that if you are making a good faith effort to comply with the rules and make such a statement, I personally would cut you a bunch of slack, make a post admonishing the members, and lock the thread. I mean, you are doing what you can to cooperate and comply with the rules so I'm not going to beat you up about it. Private email, as you noted, is the way to handle this, off the forums and out of sight. If it is visible, it must be reacted to. If it is not....
You could email members as they discuss these mods and ask them if they are interested in you performing this service. Then, if you are doing your part by keeping it sub rosa, if someone starts a thread on it, it is not an issue. We just lock it down, no big deal.
I don't know what you are referring to on the injector stuff. I don't normally hang around on the 94-97 forum. Sorry.
I'm very glad you asked that question, Patrick. There is a ton of info on this site and some extremely smart, talented folks like you, Snoodick and Joe Servo who can provide these services to those members, like me, who can't do this type of work. Nobody wants to shut that off - it is part of what makes this site great, a wonderful place for technical knowledge to be exchanged. But it has to happen in ways that do not potentially cause problems for the site. So I started this thread to answer that very question.
Hope that helps. Gotta hit the sack. You take care, eh?
I didn't see any threads started by Joe about the IDM mod.
"Having others talk about it is an interesting twist. Still, it boils down to using the forums for the purpose of selling something. Only paid advertisers can do that."
I don't think Joe had anybody post just to promote the IDM mod.
If members can't post about mods they have and like or don't unless it comes from a paid advertiser, then the "Upgrades and Aftermarket" forum should become the "Paid Advertiser" forum.
If Joe was in violation just delete his post not the whole thread.
I guess you should delete all the 10k resistor threads because they promote Radio Shack.
"I think you're in violation from viewing your website. JMHO."
I see nothing on Joe's site about selling IDM's.
[img]graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] Only that he's wanting IDM's. Does that make him a vendor?
But then Dale I's thread was shut down because he had pictures of his mods on his site. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
I think most of the time the moderators do a great job and I thank them for it. But this is starting to get kind of silly.
Just my .02. Jason thanks for the place to vent.
Scott
Added in edit: Do to slow typing, some of the above post were not here when I started. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Only that he's wanting IDM's. Does that make him a vendor?
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When he runs a service that, for a fee, makes mods to them, it surely does.
And when Radio Shack starts posting in the Upgrades and Aftermarkets section about their products, I'll delete their threads as well. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
See you in the morning. Can't wait to see how popular I'll be then. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
I guess what I am saying is that there is no mention of a fee or service on his website. So what does his site have to do with anything?
You know if you come down into the REAL TRUCK forums and start deleting threads, your going to get beat on. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Rest well. I think your going to have a busy day. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
You give me far too much credit! I am an engineer (mechanical by degree), but most of my expeience is with mechanical naval shipboard piping and systems, nuclear testing, and now aeronautical telemetry (how does that relate to the other two ... it doesn't [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] ). I could never come up with some of this stuff. I do love to tinker, though. I haven't even done a lot of mods to the old truck. I peruse the site to help me keep the thing running as well as to help others (where I can). Take care as well!
I think Keith just answered the question in the "Business Venture" thread. Why don't you folks write it up for an article submission? That way, the mod is on the site for all to see and you can just point the readers to the article for information. Sounds like a very good compromise to me!
Is a member who is also a vendor, allowed to be a member, as long as he doesn't participate in ANY threads or discusions of his or her own products? I guess what I'm saying is, if Joe would have never once posted in any of the IDM mods, and people who had them just discussed them, would that be allowable?
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