Smokey,
With the greatest of respect, how can you reconcile your roll as a moderator and participate in discussions in an obviously partial manner. You seem to want the veto power of a moderator and yet hold on to your right to inject your opinion into areas that are obviously contraversial. Technical opinions are one thing, political and public policy items are entirely different. I notice Jason exercises more control and confines himself to technical comment and forum policy. You are in the position of a judge. You can't be the judge, the prosecutor, the defendent and promoter at the same time. They are mutually exclusive. As valuable as your contributions are, sooner or later it will arise as an issue. Maybe Administrator is not your me'tier. It wouldn't be mine. You walk a tight rope.
Frederick
Fredrick- I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at. At least three administrators regularly post their opinions on politics, gun control, etc...They are alowed a little fun, too, are they not? Let's not take this place so seriously that we cannot share our opinions freely, including the administrators.
Jason is an extremely busy man and has historically posted only on truck related threads and forum housekeeping. The Moderators/Administrators were set up as volunteers that helped Jason keep the peace and control the forums. Their soul purpose is to make sure the posts are posted in the correct forum, that they are of relatively inoffensive in their language, that we do not make personal attacks in our posts, and that links that Jason does not approve of are posted. That's about it.
Quit dragging up mud and allow this to be a peaceful place.
With power comes responsibility. The Admins have the power to lock a thread down, or change the course of the debate by posting an admonitory message. The activities of participating and policing seem to be, if not in direct conflict, then dangerously close. Frederick is expressing a concern I share as well. I don't think they should absent themselves from a debate, necessarily, but should realize that they can no longer be viewed as "just another poster on this site". They bear much more responsibility with their posts.
Absolutly and unequivocally YES
We'er not writing laws here or deciding the fate of nations. We're talking on one site out of a billion. You guys need to get out into the real world every once in awhile.
------------------ NRA Life Member00 F-350 PSD CC XLT 4X4 Manual Trans and hubs 99 F-250 XL 4X4 manual trans and hubs w/extras for sale
With all those hats, do you sometimes get confused and come home wearing the wrong one? Maybe when the Mrs. asks you to go get a loaf of bread from the store, do you feel the urge to tell her "check the archives. that has been discussed before" or some such? Just wondering!
(on edit - Smokey had stated in a previous reply in another forum, just prior to moving this thread here, that he would put on his moderator's hat, lock and move the thread, then take off his moderator's hat and reply to the question.)
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Kevin
[This message has been edited by kreynol2 (edited 01-21-2000).]
No one is saying the moderators should not participate. At least I am not. All I am saying is that when the people who police a forum show up in a discussion, they have to be careful not to squelch the discussion. How are we to know when the poster is speaking as Admin or as normal joe? And if as poster, one of these says "hey, that's not appropriate" in a discussion, is he or she speaking officially or personally? Make someone else mad on the bbs and you get flamed. P*** off an Admin and you might get thrown off the board. The possibility exists.
That is why, in my line of work, the Hatch Act curtails my freedom of expression. I am a Federal employee. When I start giving my opinion to the clientele, they have a reasonable fear that if they don't agree with me that I will retaliate somehow. After all, I am in a position of power over them. Now, they don't know me, or else they would laugh at the absurdity of the very thought. But they don't know me. And you know what, we don't really know any of you folks either. So it is a concern.
I have corresponded with Smokey in the past and like him personally. I think he is doing a marvelous job professionally. I think all the admins are doing a fair, balanced job. However, if none of you ever thought about the power you hold, you should. That is my point. (I knew I had one around here somewhere!)
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Kevin
[This message has been edited by kreynol2 (edited 01-21-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fyoung: Smokey,
With the greatest of respect, how can you reconcile your roll as a moderator and participate in discussions in an obviously partial manner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi, Frederick -
Sorry to be so slow in responding. I had to catch a couple of winks.
Moderators in BBS forums is not a new concept for me. I've watched some very good ones over the years. And I've watched some lousy ones, too. I try to emulate the very good ones.
A moderator is sort of like a policeman or an IRS agent. They have a job to do. But when they take off the badge, they're just another one of the neighbors at the football game, in church, at the PTA meeting. Would you bar those folks from participating in community activities just because of their job?
I've had some training in being a "policeman". In addition to some of my qualifications included in my profile, I'm also a Certified Internal Auditor, with over 10 years experience actually working as an internal auditor within multi-billion-dollar activities. That job required me to kick butt and take names during the day, but then I could meet those same folks after work at the club and talk about the Cowboys vs. the Giants. Those folks recognized me as the auditor (i.e., the "Admin" title on all my posts), but they could also tell when I was not wearing my auditor hat and was just one of the guys.
The software we use at this site does not allow me to change my title from Admin to Member and back and forth, depending on which hat I'm wearing. And it doesn't allow me to change my signature, depending on which hat I'm wearing. So to help you know when I'm wearing my moderator hat, I post my name and Moderator title at the bottom of any "official" post - and omit my usual signature. If you don't see "Moderator" at the end of my post, then you can bet I'm just one of the boys participating in the discussion.
For any of my posts that does not include the Moderator title at the end of the post, you're welcome to argue and disagree with me. In the public forums. Just like you and I have been doing for several months now.
But if you do see "Moderator" at the end of a post, and if you want to argue or disagree with any action I take as a Moderator, then do it via e-mail. Never in the public forums. If you want me fired as a moderator, then send an e-mail to the WebMaster asking him to fire me. He can. He might even agree with you.
>>>You walk a tight rope.<<<
I agree. Somebody has to do it. The site has grown so much that even someone as bright and dedicated as our WebMaster can no longer keep up with it all by himself. So he's appointed a few Jason's Elves. I didn't ask for this job. But I also couldn't say "no" when he asked me to help him - I owe him a lot for providing an avenue for me to have so much pleasure over the last few months - so I spend a few minutes a day helping out.
I hope you and everybody else can distinguish the difference between an Admin doing the job of moderator and when he's just offering an opinion on overloading or which options to buy. As Jason mentioned in an earlier post, if I have the choice of being a moderator that can't participate on the site, or a member that can't moderate, then I'm going to choose to be a member that can't moderate - because my goal in life of getting you to buy the right truck for your load is still not accomplished.
[Below this sentence, you will not see the word "moderator". So you're welcome to reply and argue to your heart's content! ]
------------------ Ford-Diesel.com is a member-supported website, for more info: Click here. ........ Ole retired guy in west Texas with Darling Wife and Sierra Blanca - the white mountain of a '99.5 F250 diesel-powered CrewCab.
[This message has been edited by SmokeyWren (edited 01-21-2000).]
__________________
My Sierra Blanca is a '99.5 PSD CrewCab hot-rod Towing Machine! BTS tranny; TurboRamAir intake and 4" stainless turbo-back exhaust; DP-Tuner tunes flashed into an Edge Evolution tuner; ISSPRO EV gauges and TTM; AIC; SP-Diesel exhaust brake and torque converter controller. I special-ordered it new and plan to drive it until it quits.
I have historically done the same thing that Smokey does. It usually ends Like this.
Keith Anderson
Ford-Diesel.com
Moderator
That is the Blue's clue as to what hat I am wearing!!!!!
If I am not mistaken most of us do this.
__________________ Keith Anderson
More than 3000 Americans were Massacred on September 11th.
Their Deaths Should Not Be In Vain.
Please Remember To Do Whatever You Can To Help Kill An Al-Qaeda.
If this was a venue where more was at stake, I would agree with Frederick and say the moderators should just moderate and not participate. But what's at stake here? This is just a great place where a bunch of folks can get together and jaw about most anything.
So far, the moderator's have a great track record when it comes to wearing two hats. As near as I can tell, they are fair to everyone, and until they prove otherwise, they should be allowed to participate.
Mike
[This message has been edited by mhardin (edited 01-21-2000).]
Smokey,
I have little argument with your reasoning, And as Jason said in a post, we can't be all wise and all knowing. But when you have a post zapped and then the moderator defends the original post and disputes the statistics you quote in his e-mail, then it stops being moderation and becomes biased involvement.
On the whole I have no complaint at the moderation done here even though I realize that it is a strange situation to be running around on the soccer field blowing the referee's whistle and exacting penalties and then kicking the ball when you get a chance, no matter how well you play or how much you love to play. The referree can't be part of the game other than as a referee.
But let's set that aside.
Even a judge has to recuse himself if he is known as having a stated opinion on a case in which his opinion has relevence. While we are discussing, jawing if you will, about technical things and truck operation, I admit it isn't of much importance that the Moderator stay out. But when it comes to Politics, Society in general, Morals and Ethics, you are on different ground. It is in this area that the Moderator has to be very self disciplined. The simplest solution from what I can see is to eliminate the political, societal and what not from the arena. We could then function better as a happy family, and discussing ones siblings habits and boy/girl friends would not disturb the family environment. The alternative has been seen and it's not very pleasant. Eliminating Political and political organization plugging on signatures would also go a long way. Put it in your profile instead of an in your face statement as many are. It's not political suppression, just subject confinement within the rules.
I've been happy with the way things have been moderated on these boards. I've had my fingers hit with the ruler a few times, and while none of us likes it, it does serve a purpose.
I don't think any of the moderators or administrators have crossed the line when it comes to, "agree with me or I'll lock you down." Haven't gotten to the point where we have to say, " taken it off boss" and despite the gun talk no one has been shot yet either.
Keep up the good work folks and lets not get too serious. Life is too short lets have some have fun.
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2000-PSD F350 LARIAT SC LWB 4X4 6SPD MAN., 3.73 DRW, BLACK/HARVEST GOLD, ALL THE FORD OPTIONS & FISHER PLOW W/TURN OVER BALL 5TH/WHEEL.
__________________
2000-PSD F350 LARIAT SC LWB 4X4 6SPD MAN., 3.73 DRW, BLACK/HARVEST GOLD, ALL THE FORD OPTIONS & FISHER PLOW W/TURN OVER BALL 5TH/WHEEL.
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