Tired of reading about "snake oils" and magic potions

[DIESELSITE]

Smokey,
That was really not very cool.

Please read these posts;
This is what started the whole thread.

forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000702.html

forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000091.html

forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000044.html

Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[This message has been edited by JLester (edited 05-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SmokeyWren (edited 05-25-2000).]

[DIESELSITE]

Does anyone know how to make these links work? The first one will show the post that got me to check mine.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[SmokeyWren]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kreynol2:
Smokey, what does that mean about my Dana 80 rear axle - it is not "Ford design", or am I reading too much into it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know. My various booklets that came with my '99.5 is confusing when it comes to the Dana 80 rear axle. Owner's Guide says the Dana 80 holds 8.3 pints of 70w90 synthetic, with a note that says it needs to be changed - see the Scheduled maintenance Guide.

But my Scheduled Maintenance Guide doesn't even mention changing the rear axle lube in anything - until you get to the back of the book under "exceptions". When you get back there, it says that "rear axles containing synthetic lubricant ... are lubricated for life". No mention of any exception to this rule for the Dana 80 - which has syn lube but the 70w90 instead of the good stuff which is the 70w140.

Maybe your 2000 Scheduled Maintenance Guide is different?

[Johnboy2]

One thing that bothers me on this sight is the division of how people use their trucks and how that affects their beliefs. Half if not more of the people here only use their trucks for basic transportation or towing their camper around once in a while. They cannot compare or even imagine the difference in the matainance needs of people that actually work their trucks.

I have never found Bob to be a pushy salesman or trying to sell me something. I value his opinion as much as the next guy. Just because Bob changed the oil in his truck and believes that it made an improvement doesn't mean that he is trying to sell or advise anyone that drives one of these trucks ,because they want one not because they need one, to change their oil. He is merely relating his experiences just like everyone else here does.

Sometimes it sure feels like there are quite a few self righteous folks here. Just because your views or beliefs are different from another's doesn't mean that they are wrong.


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1997 F-250 Heavy Duty SC 4x4, psd, auto., 4.10 gears, 285-75 16's, propane injection, shimmed, resistered, cat dead, exhaust brake, K&N, 4" exhaust, 3" downpipe, intercooler ordered

[Carpentractor]

How often does a rattlesnake need it's oil changed anyway?

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Keith
1994 F-250, PowerStroke Diesel, 5 Speed, SC, LB, 4x4, with a 4.10 Geared Limited Traction Differential, Warn Premium Manual Hubs and a Happy Driver.
NRA Life Member. Click Here For Keith's Diesel Page

NorthEast Rally Page

[Tom Pike]

&lt;&lt;How often does a rattlesnake need it's oil changed anyway? &gt;&gt;

Its in the owners guide, and there is to be no deviation. A few of us guys opened up the snake and saw deposits, cleaned them up, changed the fluid. Nobody who opened the snake said it was clean and attractive inside. Most of us who got involved with this snake have no financial interest in the oil, just sincerely trying to help others based on what they saw.

[This message has been edited by Tom Pike (edited 05-25-2000).]

[DIESELSITE]

I wish I could get those links to work. The first one was a long time ago when several people had changed rear fluid because of burnt, black fluid. I then said I better chack mine.
At least it it will show were my intentions were.
Smokey, or one of moderators could make them work, I'm sure.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[SmokeyWren]

Jason and I were both in there at the same time trying to edit Bob's links. I couldn't fix them, but Jason did. Thanx Jason. How did you fix them? I couldn't se anything wrong with them.

[DIESELSITE]

Thanks guys.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[Shawn]

*whips out the marshmellows to roast by the nice toasty flames going on in here*

Got to love these oil debates!

(Nothing constructive to add... )

SP

Here is an example of a post that bugs me:
http://forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/u...ML/001680.html

I am not complaining about the poster, just the method of solving the problem.

Now if I could only get Texaco Premium Diesel up here in Canada, I would be set...

(For those that might have missed my sarcasm: I can get it up here in Canada.)

Kim

It is good that everyone is sharing information and I have personally learned a lot about diesels and trucks by participating.

I personally thank you for creating this website.

I have no quams about this guy posting what he did, but what bugs me is that we keep going round and round and round on issues that we shouldn't even have to worry about.

This site has essentially become the support site for owning one of these trucks.

Let me explain: I grew up on a farm. We had lots of diesel engines and lots of big, heavy equipment: trucks, tractors, combines, earthmoving equipment, etc.

I bought this truck because I thought it was a get in and drive truck, like other diesel equipment on the farm: change oil in it, fill it up with fuel and drive it, just like we did with diesels on the farm. Stuff on a farm never gets babied. It gets taken care of well, but it gets worked: tractors pull to rated power all day long, day in and day out. Oil gets changed at 100 hours and you don't worry about it in between. Air cleaners are checked when the indicator starts moving and that is the end of it.

No worries, no problems, no breakdowns, no nothing: Just maintain it and DRIVE !

Our 1480 combine had a DT466 with 4,000 VERY HARD hours on it when we traded it in. Many a day (and night) it spent grinding away on big, wet swaths of wheat, with a dirty radiator on diesel fuel trucked in a slip tank in the back of a dusty half ton.

We never looked at that engine once ! (Well, once we took the pump off because the govenor was sticky and we thought the engine might overspeed. Cost: $100 and about 2 hours of labour.)

My experience with these trucks and others by the looks of it has been very different:

I have had diff problems and Bob Riley tells me the oil is shot in his differential: should I change it for synthetic ? Should I get it tested ? How are WE going to fix it ? WHERE THE HELL IS FORD ON THESE ISSUES ? My differential has been apart several times: did anyone think to do an oil analysis ?

My engine cackles. Last summer it had no power. After 3 visits to the dealer they found the filter assembly was leaking fuel into the rocker valley.

My hydroboost pump started whining. That got rebuilt. My transmission grinds shifting into 2nd. Someone says I need to change the oil in it to a synthetic ATF.

My neighbour comes over last night: he is mad because pulled his 5th wheel on the weekend and he had no power. I was showing him how to park a 5th wheel the other night: he doesn't have any power steering when you step on the brakes, but I didn't tell him that.


The pattern is the same:

a) things don't work properly on these trucks

b) Ford doesn't do anything about it or doesn't know what to do

c) we sit around these forums trying to solve the problems ourselves.

d) we come up with all these stupid work arounds for stuff that should have worked properly in the first place:

- to save your automatic transmission, put on a second cooler

- to fix the drivers side convex mirror, tear it apart and move it

- to fix the driver door rattle, replace the plastic rivets with real ones

- to fix the cackle, use XXYY fuel

- to ensure the rear diff doesn't blow seals... we are still working on that one

- when you don't have any power, start with filters, then check the fuel pressure and oh, what about the 3 TSBs on the shifting of the automatic transmission ?

- change the oil in the transfer case because it will be black and smoked in 10,000 kms

- watch your differential oil

The thing that really bothers me is stuff that we idly accept as standard practice to make these things run right: lets discuss the transmission cooler issue.

It is now common knowledge according to some that if you are going to pull big loads you need to run special transmission fluid, put on a second transmission cooler, a guage and sometimes a bigger pan. As far as I am concerned, this should not have to be done !

Example: we have a IH 1900 series truck on the farm. It was a single axle Coke delivery truck with a DT466 when my dad bought it. He spliced in a TANDEM axle frame, put on a 20 foot box and hoist and wala we have a grain truck. It has an Allison 5 Speed automatic with a DT466. The truck now operates at about 20,000 pounds over its previous GVW. It has a transmission temperature guage. The transmission does not overheat because it is pulling a bigger load. The transmission does not fail. The engine works a lot harder: on a soft gravel road with 500 bushels of wheat that DT466 smokes and runs wide open the full trip. Did I tell you it has about 5,000 hours on it. It doesn't cackle and it pulls the same ALL THE TIME ! That is a SUPER DUTY truck: get in and drive. No problems. Don't worry about the right oil ! Don't worry about wrecking the transmission ! It has good power for the engine it has. It has never been to the International dealer. It has been run on 20 types of fuels and never hickuped.

Just get in and DRIVE: it is always ready to go !

That is a truck worthy of the Superduty name: it does everything you want it to; it doesn't act up; it acts consistently from day to day and you don't have to know anything special to own one.

The same cannot be said of the Superduty trucks manufactured by Ford.

Maybe my expectations are out to lunch, but I though Superduty as defined by Ford meant superduty like I knew on the farm.

I am saddend to see people sharing little secrets, potions and snake oil recipes to keep a truck running that should run just fine without any special attention, or oils or fuel, for that matter.

Another case in point: http://forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/u...ML/001682.html

It is really great that someone on this site knows more than the dealer and tells the owner he probably has an injector O Ring probem.

I'll also bet if we didn't know about the injector O Ring problem, someone would have told this guy to buy a special air filter or use a special oil to fix his problem.

I will now keep my peace on this issue and several others that I have been venting about lately.

Kim

BTW: the only two things I want to consistently haul with my truck is our 9500 pound 5th wheel and my butt to work. The heavy truck example was to illustrate Superduty work ethic, not capacity.




[This message has been edited by lux (edited 05-25-2000).]

[DIESELSITE]

Lux,
Now I'm really confused. You have been defendind Ford all along and talking to me like I'm trying to fool people. But all along your actually angry with Ford! If Ford is dragging it's feet (we beleive) in fixing some of our problems, were do you get off getting on me or anyone else for that matter trying to take things into our own hands and speed up the process. I'm sorry, but that is the real purpose of a site like this.
If we didn't share info cause we didn't need to or didn't want to, we would only need just one big OTHER forum.

P.S. If you read those links I posted, youd see the diff problem was brought to my attention and I followed up on it. Shoot me for that if you want, but don't take your anger out on anyone here for trying to fix what Ford hasn't.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[kreynol2]

HEY!! One big OTHER forum - sounds GREAT to me! We can have as many threads on gun control, politics, theology, philosophy, history as we want to!! And believe you me, I WANT to!! Too cool!!

Can we, can we please, huh, Jason, oh please, can we, can we, pleasepleaseplease, huh, huh, can we Jason?



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Kevin

Bob:

I don't hate you; I am not mad at you; I respect you; I think your oil expertise is valuable; this website is really valuable and I like the level of discussion we get into.

I am not getting on your back because of the information you shared.

My issue with you was this: I don't think that someone who sells oil should be telling people to change all the oil in their trucks, certainly not without a huge disclaimer.

I know what you found with your oil was relevant information and I thank you for sharing that with us. I don't know if the medicine you recommended fit the illness, nor do I like the fact that you are both the doctor and the pharmacist.

My other (related) issue is with some people for whom the acceptable solution for the problems with these trucks is a special oil, a special fuel or some other treatment which should be totally unessesary for a "superduty" truck.

These trucks should work with all oils of suitable specification and all generally available fuels. If they don't work with a regular oil, fuel or maintenance schedule, then something ELSE is wrong, not the oil.

I don't think that we should ever see a post stating: "I had a problem and it went away if I used this special treatment, but it still exists if I treat it like a regular truck: ie: don't give it the special treatment."

I didn't buy a creampuff: I bought a SUPERDUTY. I don't want to have to baby it or worry about it or search for special remedies.

For example, the transmission cooler: it is a SUPERDUTY truck: it should not need a second transmission cooler to save the transmission.

As you saw from my previous post, I have a big issue with Ford ! I was defending them during our discussion because I don't think the oil is the source or the cure for the problem with the rear differential. I think there are other issues, unfortunately, at hand and the longer we talk about the oil, the less time we will spend getting to the root of the problem.

You might argue that a special oil solves the problem. I would argue that that virtues of the special oil or fuel or whatever are not that different from the standard product and that the problem will probably return because we have not eliminated the cause, only treated a symptom.

I acknowledge your efforts with the differential oil and thank you for sharing your findings.

Kim