Tired of reading about "snake oils" and magic potions

[DIESELSITE]

Lux,
Point taken. Take into consideration that this grouping of individuals is not the standard vehicle owner out there. Most people have no idea what most of the things we discuss here are even about. We want more out of them than the average truck. Yes, we bought a Superduty, but that does not mean it is a tank with the reliability of a bicycle. Reality is average maintenence and care will tend you average life. Average life was fine when trucks costs were in the low teens, but they cost way too much to last 100,000 miles. Also, the changes to become more fuel efficient, more comfortable, more powerful, etc, has rendered them with more inherent problems. Trucks with carburetors, vynil seats, no power anything, mechanical fuel pumps, cables, and speedos, etc lead to a more reliable truck, but we continue to evolve(personally I like it) and we will have to become more involved with general care.
My point earlier was if your problem was with Ford, don't be mad with people trying to fix it themselves. If people find a synthetic helped the shifting by smoothing it out, how does that not justify posting for someone else? Why is that a symptom only? If that was the complaint, then it was fixed.

Why no one did a sample on your diff? Couldn't tell you. If you had asked me, I would have told you to get one. The dealers are hiring kids to run shop by cutting costs on labor rates. The good mechanics can't afford to stick around. How I know some fluids are the fix is by doing several samples on different applications. This is why I posted the results. I didn't want to just spout off without data. Also, that was not my truck- did that on purpose. I have a kit sent to someone else already.

You asked for a BIG disclosure- How about the BIG banner on this site?
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

Good reply, Bob.

I guess powertrain stuff bothers me most: those old trucks had engines, transmissions and differentials and they didn't (seem to) give any trouble. Maybe I didn't notice.

I can't disagree with the synthetic oil in the transmission either: I almost bought some today to see if it cures my grinding. It makes sense that it would: my grinding happens when the truck is cold and when it is cold outside; synthetics have lower pour points than conventional oil.

I guess I am giving in to my Crea... I mean Superduty's special needs.

I didn't realize you were a Amsoil dealer, actually. There is a lot of stuff that goes on on this site that I don't pay attention to. I read pretty fast, skimming most stuff because I visit between tasks during the day.

Hypocritical statement: thanks for supporting the site and I hope it works out well financially for you !

Kim

[Carpentractor]

Could someone direct me to the drain plug on my snake? I cant seem to find it.

BTW Bob I got it in the mail today thank you very much!!!! I have a bunch of stuff to ask you so be prepared for a plutherer of e-mails and questions.....

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Keith
1994 F-250, PowerStroke Diesel, 5 Speed, SC, LB, 4x4, with a 4.10 Geared Limited Traction Differential, Warn Premium Manual Hubs and a Happy Driver.
NRA Life Member. Click Here For Keith's Diesel Page

NorthEast Rally Page

[Troutly]

Guess when I want answers to oil stuff I want to hear from guys like Bob and Oil Man (Kevin). When I want transmission stuff answered Mark and others fit the bill. When I want in-depth research and tech answers to most of lifes problems, Frederick is there! . My point is, I want to hear from folks who have knowledge in the field, as long as it's fair, true and unbiased as possible. I think most members on this site give that kind of info. As I said before, I think the I can seperate the good from the BS .

[DIESELSITE]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Troutly:
Guess when I want answers to oil stuff I want to hear from guys like Bob and Oil Man (Kevin). When I want transmission stuff answered Mark and others fit the bill. When I want in-depth research and tech answers to most of lifes problems, Frederick is there! . My point is, I want to hear from folks who have knowledge in the field, as long as it's fair, true and unbiased as possible. I think most members on this site give that kind of info. As I said before, I think the I can seperate the good from the BS .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Would love to meet you and Fredrick some day.
Bob


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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

Would love to meet you and Fredrick some day.
Bob

As our Aussie friend in Perth might say "Naow bladdy wuay Maite

Frederick

[mhardin]

Ditto what Troutly said.

Mike

[Ray Freeman]

Carpentractor,you found that plug yet.You want to make sure you are holding its head while you are looking .Some of the snakes we have here would not take looking for thier plug to kindly.
Fred,thats a dreadful accent you have there. I would be interested to hear your voice.A bit of Scowse and a bit of American?


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97 F350 drw.sc.E4OD.4.1 Synthetic ATF.Fuel Reg.shimmed.Banks Git Kit fitted.No Roof Rabbit.
http://users.wantree.com.au/~plb/plb.html

[Jeff Hunt]

Well, I haven't posted in almost a month and swore I'd never get involved in any fluid related discussions, but here goes:

Let me start off by saying that synthetics certainly have their place and I don't doubt their superiority to dino oils. However, they are not the be-all and end-all of every lubrication application, either. But maybe I can restate part of Kim's beef on this as it is similar to mine.

Its not hard to imagine that a company that sells their products like Amway or Avon(must be something about the letter "A") and has limited resources might want to manipulate the internet to sell their goods when most companies in the same business are large multi-national companies with large distibution networks and advertising budgets. I certainly don't fault them for wanting to use the internet to their advantage.
What bothers me is that I suspect that either the company endorses, or a few of their salesman have taken it upon themselves to try to manipulate people's opinions on their products by posing as the average Joe that is just advocating how wonderful Brand X is from their personal experience. I also suspect that it is fairly successful with many folks just from watching the genesis of how some of the ideas(not necessarily oil related) take root on these forums. I have seen at least one case and suspect several more of Joe Blow's advocaton of brand X turn into Joe Blow the Brand X salesman. Unfortunately, it is impossible to tell who is selling and who is just trying to be helpful, but if you watch them long enough they usually reveal themselves. I would suggest that folks always keep in mind that this website is probably considered a very target rich environment and the minute someone says how good a certain brand of something is they may be selling it. The thought has also gone through my mind when advocating certain brands that someone may think I am selling. Please note that I am not talking about any person in this thread as I plead ignorance to the details of this particular case.

On a personal note, I will say this:

I was barely aware of Amsoil before I discovered this website. I find it incredible the number of times it is mentioned here compared to the amount of it I suspect that is sold. I take personal offense when people insinuate that folks who don't use it are idiots who are too stupid to realize how good it is(the flip side being how smart they are). I will never spend one nickle of my money ever on any Amsoil product. This is not due to any lack of merit the product may have, but only because of the negative feelings it has created in myself from the rhetoric generated when people here start talking about how good it is. I really don't like being manipulated and always feel like someone is trying to whenever I read anything here about Amsoil.
With that being said, I have no hard feelings against any individual selling it, and feel thay have a perfectly good right to be here as long as they represent themselves honestly. I have even seen some good information presented here by at least one person from Amsoil (Wayne, whose username is Amsoilman which pretty much eliminates any doubt about where he is coming from).
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95 F250 Supercab, 4X4, 5 speed, 4.10's Red and White



[This message has been edited by Jeff Hunt (edited 06-05-2000).]

Lurchdog: The squeaky wheel gets the grease, brother !

I too have learnt alot on this site and several times the stuff I learnt came from what started out as other people's complaints.

The site is great, no questions about that.

I don't buy the multi use theory: one could take an International 4900 and use it for everything from a tow truck to a (smaller) highway tractor. A PSD SD shouldn't have any difficulty handling the groceries up to 20,000 pounds, day in and day out, recreation or construction use without special oils and treatment.

Kim

[JGblkLand]

I tend to agree with Lux on the issue of these trucks needing to be babied. We also have a lot of diesel powered equipment on our farm and it doesn't get special treatment, just the regular maintenance called for by the manual. We never had any breakdowns on account of not using the right additive in the fuel, or not using synthetic lubricants in every sump or any other reason that people worry about with these trucks. In this part of the country when we harvest corn it's usually the hottest time of the year. We just make sure everything has coolant in it, drain fluids when they need it and just go. This is a diesel engine it should be able to work and not have to be treated like a cream puff.
My dad has a 84 F150 pickup that he bought new. It's probably never had the auto trans drained, the differential has never been opened, and it's still going. He used it for years pulling water tanks, trailers, and general farm use. It just kind of bothers me that our trucks seem to have to be treated special just to get the life out of them that some older trucks got easily.Well, that's just my view on this.

[DIESELSITE]

I wouldn't say they need to be babied. These trucks are not tractors though. My grandfather had a farm with all kinds of old tractors and machines. Most took very little maitenance, but times have changed. People want comfort, convienences, and beauty, and have the carefree, low maintanance tractor. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I will gladly take the leather and power windows to have a little more maitenance and care. Look at the transmissions; we have electronic 4 wheel drive. Where do you think all that electronic equipment rests? In place of gears and clutch plates. The trans case is the same size as previous ones, except as more electronics are utilised for "conviences", the smaller the clutch packs become making room. The extreme opposite of what I'm talking about is the old 2-speed powerglide. It had two gears, no electronics and could take 600 hp slamming into it at 3000rpms. I personally would not like to drive a truck with a transmission out of a tractor or large truck even if it lasted longer.
Now, engines are another issue. Auto manufacturers are still brainwashing us into the "100,000 miles, better trade it in" syndrome. That's how long the General manager at Auto Nations in Fl. told me my PSD was good for before I'd trade it in. They don't have the want or need to produce the vehicles to last 500,000 miles. That isn't what sells today. Leather, heated seats and mirrors, gps's, home theater sound stereos, etc sell cars today. Nowhere in any sales commercial do auto manufacturers brag of engine longevity or durability anymore. It's options and how nice we can make the drive. Ever see the Toyota commercials anymore either? Remeber the ones with peoples testimonials about how they got 300,000+ miles?
The last issue is with EPA rulings. This is throwing a whole new wrench into the program. The EPA has set out guidelines on new emmissions laws. They care not how it's done, just do it. To make this short, I'll show a few problems associated with this. Saturn now has a ring sticking problem at about 30,000 miles, it starts consuming oil like a two stroke. The diesels will start to have to eat there own soot instead of spitting it out the tailpipe.
Sorry for the length, but just got rolling.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com

[Lurchdog]

In response to this debate...this is a free country. You have the right to voice your opinion just like others have the right to listen or ignore. I frequent this site daily and in the past 5 months I have learned more about my truck than anybody can imagine. When my truck arrives, I will have a good idea of what is going on with it. When something goes wrong, I will have in my corner a plethora of possible solutions. Believe me, I much rather have more than one option for a possible fix. Also, I now have my salesman calling me and asking me questions about things that I have learned on this website.

To those that sell or market items for our trucks, I welcome your expertise in the field. It is because of these knowledgeable people that we have options. If I feel that something is being forced down my throat, then I will just quit reading. Nobody is holding a gun to my mouse clicking finger

To Lux: I sympathize with your situation, but in your examples of reliable machinery, you bring up tractors, and heavy grain trucks and so forth. Can you do 80 mph in those vehicles comfortably? Do you go and pick up your children in them? Are those vehicles enviromentally friendly? My point is, those type of vechiles are designed for one purpose and therefore do it well. Our trucks are bought by many thousands of people and used for just as many purposes. Therefore Ford had to make compromises and not all people are going to be happy. Those that aren't happy, they have the right to complain, and they also have the right to buy something else. Question you must decide is, what are you going to do? Complaining obviously has only gotten you so far. Why keep doing it?

re:"I wouldn't say they need to be babied. These trucks are not tractors though."

I thought they were "Superduty" ?

re:"My grandfather had a farm with all kinds of old tractors and machines. Most took very little maitenance, but times have changed."

They sure have: tractors have become MORE reliable. Take combines: compare a Massey 510 to a IH 915 to an IH 1480 to a 2188: each year they get more powerful, they have more accessories and they give LESS trouble.

A 510 wouldn't run around the field without breaking down and it had no capacity. A 914 would go a day or two without any trouble. A 1480 would go a week and a 2188 will go the whole season without any difficulty.

We used to complain that the fuel tank on the 1480 was too small: we had to fill it up every 12 hours or so. It was the ONLY time that machine stopped.

re:"People want comfort, convienences, and beauty, and have the carefree, low maintanance tractor. Sorry, it doesn't work that way."

Why not ? It has in cars. It has in tractors. It has in highway tractors. It has in Dodge trucks... what is wrong with the SD line ? Go over to the Engine and Drivetrain forum: there is a lot of trouble there.

re:"I will gladly take the leather and power windows to have a little more maitenance and care."

There is no reason for these trucks to need a little more maintenance and care. Other brands are just as luxurious and do not need the extra care.


re:'I personally would not like to drive a truck with a transmission out of a tractor or large truck even if it lasted longer."

There is no reason for the 4R100 or the ZF6 to be failing or needing extra attention. BTW: rumor has it that the ZF6 is used in European army trucks. It shifts pretty nice for a HD transmission.

re:"Now, engines are another issue. Auto manufacturers are still brainwashing us into the "100,000 miles, better trade it in" syndrome."

I totally agree with you on that ! I don't know how many people I have heard say "Thats OK, I will just trade it in when it is off warranty." I think that is a waste of $$$$.

I totally agree with you on the durability stuff.


re:"The last issue is with EPA rulings. This is throwing a whole new wrench into the program. The EPA has set out guidelines on new emmissions laws. They care not how it's done, just do it."

I don't think they are being unreasonable, especially with the over 8500 GVW trucks and they are even more lienient with diesels. If Ford was serious about fuel mileage, these trucks would have 7 speed double OD transmissions in them.


re:"To make this short, I'll show a few problems associated with this. Saturn now has a ring sticking problem at about 30,000 miles, it starts consuming oil like a two stroke."

How is this related to EPA, Bob ???


re:"The diesels will start to have to eat there own soot instead of spitting it out the tailpipe."

Soot is NOT a problem in a diesel engine if it gets enough air and the combustion temperatures are high enough. I think that Ford needs to go to 6 litres to make the engine work harder and get the combustion temperatures up when driving around empty.

I still don't buy any reason why these trucks should be cream puffs and require special treatment.

Kim

[JGblkLand]

Tractors these days are not getting less complex, on the contrary they are getting as much electronics as new pickups. Still, they don't require any special care compared to yesterday's machines.I think that's what gets me disgusted about our trucks, they are not tougher than the old ones. I remember when I was a teenager if someone bought a 3/4 ton pickup, it was a hoss. It would pull anything you hooked to it, haul whatever you could put in the bed, and the 4 wheel drive ones would go anywhere without problems. They didn't cost 35K either. With all these problems people are having these cannot be called Super Duty trucks truthfully.