Im really not interested in disabling any device on my truck,but... perhaps the moderators would consider an "OFF ROAD" section of TDS. It sure would make many here happy and I wouldnt have see all these "LOCKED" threads and deleted post. I gettin afraid to post sometimes becuz i dont know all the rules. What do ya think Mods [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
If you recall, you and I had a discussion about this a while back (Funny thing is, at that time, not only were our roles reversed, our positions on the topic were apparently reversed as well!). According to the EPA, any device listed in their regs and/or any device so labeled by the manufacturer as an emissions control device is in fact, an emissions control device. Ford has labeled the EGR as an emissions control device (and it's even covered under their emissions warranty), so by definition, it is an emissions control device. Thus, tampering with it would be in violation of the site rules.
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The point others are making is that if you are correct "tampering with emissions devices" is not legal (which it clearly is not) then....are you ready......look real close......tuners, go fast boxes, bigger injectors, bigger turbos, nitrous injection, propane injection, etc. etc. devices sold HERE are also not legal. Repeat Also not legal. This is not a gray area, they are devices that tampers with the emissions SYSTEM and renders the emissions SYSTEM non-effective which is illegal. So having 2 entire sections devoted to illegal devices but at the same time getting bent about modifying an EGR is.......well not really consistent. More to the point....what is possibly different with welding the EGR shut or simply unplugging the EGR when you can but a tuner HERE that renders the EGR shut by programming? So closing the EGR by mechanical means VS closing it by computer is somehow different?
Reality check: Without the hundred or so "illegal devices" advertised and talked about in the 6.0 aftermarket or the 7.3 aftermarket section.....money would cease to come in to the site and the site would effectively cease to exist. Can't have it both ways!
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Too much junk/toys to mention, ever changing due to too getting bored too quickly. I need a 10 step program!
Want to call? I'm in the book. Want to argue....First explain the square root of negative one....lol
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You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
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Disabling emissions control equipment is against the law. I also believe that that is noted in your truck's owners manual.
Regards,
Jay
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Quote: "Disabling emissions control equipment is against the law. I also believe that that is noted in your truck's owners manual."
Absolutly correct.....So is installing a go fast box, tuner, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, nitrous, propane or any other non-approved item.
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Too much junk/toys to mention, ever changing due to too getting bored too quickly. I need a 10 step program!
Want to call? I'm in the book. Want to argue....First explain the square root of negative one....lol
I agree with roofeditor that if these rules are applied equally to their logical end to all aftermarket products discussed on this board then this site will cease to exist. But I guess I'm a black and white type person when it comes to rules. When the site makes a strict rule and then allows many gray area exceptions there will be grief from members. Either change the rule to allow the exceptions or stop the exceptions. Character does not allow it to be both ways.
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So is installing a go fast box, tuner, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, nitrous, propane or any other non-approved item.
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Can you cite sources for this? I've found stuff applicable to vehicles under 8600 GVWR, and certain restirctions in various states, but nothing concrete.
If you recall, you and I had a discussion about this a while back (Funny thing is, at that time, not only were our roles reversed, our positions on the topic were apparently reversed as well!). According to the EPA, any device listed in their regs and/or any device so labeled by the manufacturer as an emissions control device is in fact, an emissions control device. Ford has labeled the EGR as an emissions control device (and it's even covered under their emissions warranty), so by definition, it is an emissions control device. Thus, tampering with it would be in violation of the site rules.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point others are making is that if you are correct "tampering with emissions devices" is not legal (which it clearly is not) then....are you ready......look real close......tuners, go fast boxes, bigger injectors, bigger turbos, nitrous injection, propane injection, etc. etc. devices sold HERE are also not legal. Repeat Also not legal. This is not a gray area, they are devices that tampers with the emissions SYSTEM and renders the emissions SYSTEM non-effective which is illegal. So having 2 entire sections devoted to illegal devices but at the same time getting bent about modifying an EGR is.......well not really consistent. More to the point....what is possibly different with welding the EGR shut or simply unplugging the EGR when you can but a tuner HERE that renders the EGR shut by programming? So closing the EGR by mechanical means VS closing it by computer is somehow different?
Reality check: Without the hundred or so "illegal devices" advertised and talked about in the 6.0 aftermarket or the 7.3 aftermarket section.....money would cease to come in to the site and the site would effectively cease to exist. Can't have it both ways!
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Thanks Roof,
You helped make my point that cat delete is ok because the supporting vendors sell a cat delete.No egr delete available yet,so it's off limits.
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You helped make my point that cat delete is ok because the supporting vendors sell a cat delete.
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As noted above, this is not "OK." We remove those exact same posts/threads when we see them, and have asked the sponsors not to mention them here. I'm unsure why folks still maintain this false notion? I don't know how much plainer we can make it, twice even in the same thread? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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You helped make my point that cat delete is ok because the supporting vendors sell a cat delete.
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As noted above, this is not "OK." We remove those exact same posts/threads when we see them, and have asked the sponsors not to mention them here. I'm unsure why folks still maintain this false notion? I don't know how much plainer we can make it, twice even in the same thread? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
- Jay
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6.0 Upgrade Section...
Every post talking about EGR is locked.
Every post about exhaust either directly mentions cat delete or a specific brand of exhaust which has no provision for a cat. see any locks?
So am I understanding correctly that I can freely post and discuss about tuners that change the stock epa certified program to a non epa certified extreme tune?
If you recall, you and I had a discussion about this a while back (Funny thing is, at that time, not only were our roles reversed, our positions on the topic were apparently reversed as well!). According to the EPA, any device listed in their regs and/or any device so labeled by the manufacturer as an emissions control device is in fact, an emissions control device. Ford has labeled the EGR as an emissions control device (and it's even covered under their emissions warranty), so by definition, it is an emissions control device. Thus, tampering with it would be in violation of the site rules.
[/ QUOTE ]
Until someone can cite paragraph and verse in an actual governing document such as the Clean Air Act or a US Code or US Regulation the last time I looked non governmental entities such as FOMOCO, CAT, whoever can say whatever they want and it won't effect my opinion in this. A lot of those regs are written for LDT trucks and cars and per the law might not apply to us since LDT is under 8500 GVWR.
I'm just not going to argue this since it's really OBE since we have the word that discussion of messing with CATs, EGRs and Street Racing is not allowed so for me that is the end of this discussion whether I agree with that or not.
I really think it's quite funny for folks to try and expand the stated "VORBTEN" areas to other areas of discussion. but each to their own.
Larry
__________________ <font color="green">MY PICTURES - Look around ... lots of good stuff </font>
2001PSD(PCM:HPI2)SD E-350,Dk Emerald Grn,4.10LS, <font color="blue">Mustang dyno - 183.9/400.4 stock</font> [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], BTS w/Schaeffer's ATF[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] , ITP 3.5"/4" exhaust w/Magnaflow & Aeroturbine,Dieselsite 203* T-stat/Zerex G-05,F.Pwr, Ext/Int. Upgd. pkg,R. Bds,AIC,Tow Pkg, Rear & Slider windows,<font color="red">AMSOIL air, oil-bypass & rear end 75w-140 fluid ,<font color="blue">3/8" fuel sys w/10µ Dieselsite DAHL100 & fuel manifold/sight glass</font>,6 way dr. pwr. seat, Magnefine trans/P.S. filters</font>, husky mats,<font color="red">5 gauge A-pillar ISSPRO EVs w/Grn mkr illum. + air & fuel restriction gauges</font>,Dieselsite coolant filter and zinc electrode, manual GPR switch & GP LED, blinking security LED, weathertechs, a few other "Gadgets" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], & a 1981 26' Prowler TT(26Y)
3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use;
I thought a bunch of stuff was 'offroad use only' anyways.......Does that part violate the rules? Just wondering [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
__________________
2000 Black Excursion,PFC 2 piece rotors,Tipton tuned,BDP stage 2 singles, BDP H2E, AFE stage 2, Spearco 7.3, ITP Reg. return fuel system, Evans, BTS, 186,000 miles....And still goin' strong! Thanks Beansdieselperformance.com and Puredieselpower.com for all your help
I would like to know how many Moderators still have there cats on, and EGR devices still hooked up? Oh wait, don't answer, that could be a violation, right? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] I really don't care what others do, I'm just presenting a question. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]
__________________ 95 F350 Crewcab4X4: TE Twin Turbo(BB fed by a Turbonetics TN76 from BWD), DDP BD Injectors, DIIC with custom stainless 3" piping, <span style="color: red">Terminator HPOS</span>, DI headstuds, BTS tranny, TruCool 40GVW cooler, <span style="color: blue">DP LIVE TUNED F5 with Extreme ICP!</span> , Custom fuel system, MagHytec diff cover.
01 F350 Regcab4X4: soon to be sold.
97 F350 Regcab4X4: Project(everything to make power).
We are not in the business of trying to regulate what members do to their trucks....... We are in the business of keeping the content of this site within the guidelines laid down by Jason.
What modifications any member (including the moderators) may have done to their truck is of no concern to us, provided they do not discuss any that violate the site rules....
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers.
Are big injectors violation on emissions? I don't see how a truck blowing black smoke could pass a test......It seems like there are a lot of grey areas in the rules and some are trying to see what the limits are.-If it's hampering with emissons equipment or just EGR and cat related threads.
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2000 Black Excursion,PFC 2 piece rotors,Tipton tuned,BDP stage 2 singles, BDP H2E, AFE stage 2, Spearco 7.3, ITP Reg. return fuel system, Evans, BTS, 186,000 miles....And still goin' strong! Thanks Beansdieselperformance.com and Puredieselpower.com for all your help
2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 
Linear Mode
