50,000 Physicists don't agree with Al Gore

[roofeditor]

DailyTech - Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

Also 31,000 plus engineers and other scientists don't agree with AL

List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here are the signers. Home - Global Warming Petition Project

I don't see me listed yet but I did sign!!! so now it's 31,001

[UTAH]

There is a certain irony, though, in ascertaining the obvious - that most who've dismissed Global Warming have claimed its bad science. Now, of course, we'll see the stance taken that the scientists are "right."

Personally, I think legitimate scientific debate is always a good thing. I don't see a problem with it.

Bill

[action4478]

History is the best indicator IMHO ,,, been going in cycles for eons,,,This is a big planet ..How can there be such a strong opinion based on the lenght of time it has been recorded or studied ...Not long ago (80's),,there was talk of a coming ice age ...

I'm not buying it ,anymore than I was buying the end of times as we knew them at the turn of the century (Y 2K) ...it was supposed to hit the fan....

[chuckster57]

cbs13.com - Former Vice President Al Gore Seeks 'Moonshot' Goal On U.S. Energy

[MackE7]

Originally Posted by action4478

I'm not buying it ,anymore than I was buying the end of times as we knew them at the turn of the century (Y 2K) ...it was supposed to hit the fan....

The science of global warming is just a little bit different than Y2K ! And so are the potential effects.

[checkthisout]

Originally Posted by MackE7

The science of global warming is just a little bit different than Y2K ! And so are the potential effects.

I agree! Investment Banks couldnt' speculate on Y2K bugs but they sure can on Carbon Credits.

Steal my rights to combustion and sell them back to me at an inflated price.

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

cbs13.com - Former Vice President Al Gore Seeks 'Moonshot' Goal On U.S. Energy

He has toned down the global CO-2 warming and makes a point on energy costs going out of our hands to others running this country into the ground.

Where he falls on his a$$ is that he doesn't bridge the gap between making all our power from wind and solar to eliminating importing oil for gasoline.

As is not there is no viable technology that can put a solar panel or windmill in the tank of your car or F-350.

Someone with some bal-s needs to point out to him that solar power can't run a car and wind power can't run a truck.

The T Boone Pickens plan which diverts much of our oil used in heating back into the gas tank, and much of the natural gas into the gas tank is at least viable.

As is not no one has come up with an alternative plan that could actually work in the car/truck.

The roofeditor plan which is in the hands of several politicians again and again.

1. Conservation
2. Hybrids that can plug in and go 40 miles.
3. Eliminating the F-250/350 for CAR use by a strong tax.
4. Bribing the use of Honda Diesels, VW Diesels and any one else willing to make the investment, by a strong tax credit.
5. Conversion of ALL homes that have oil heat to ground source HEAT PUMPS.
6. Tax Credits for high E windows, insulation, high seer AC etc.
7. 60 mph speed limit with $100 tickets given for going over and the $100 goes to ONLY a fund for alternative energy. No mark on your license!!!!
8. Congress taking hold of of fuel and emission standards and fuel formulations as a national issue ONLY even if it takes a constitutional amendment. 5 States forming their own cars and fuels is nonsense.
10. Giving Detroit a strong incentive to develop small diesel/hybrid combination cars and trucks.
11. Diesels in theory are 30% more efficient compared to gassers. Adding hybrid to a diesel could result in a 60 mpg car and easily a 30 mpg truck. The technology is there on the shelf right now.

12. A train is by most experts 10 times to 20 times more efficient hauling large heavy loads. Sorry 18 wheel guys!!!

13. Texas yesterday passed bills that will bring on line 5,000 megawatts in addition to T. Boone Pickens 1,200 megawatt investment. The claim is this will eventually (and not 10 Obama years) power 4.4 million homes.

14. France is powering 80% of their country with nuclear power. 1/2 of the cost of building a reactor is fighting the legal battle. That has to stop. There are methods to seriously reduce reactor waste.

15. Honda as we speak has a natural gas car that can be filled up from your own home if you have natural gas. They claim is will go 200 miles on a fill-up and is the cleanest car in the world!!! I think it costs 25K.

16. We will have a Prius in our garage in about 6-10 months. It will be unique and we are working with SE Toyota. It will be a plug in that can go 40 miles on electric ONLY and be able to reach 60 mph on electric only. That is old news. OURS will have our own dark blue solar panels that are thinner than a book of matches. The panels have release paper on back and stick down. The panels will make about 350 watts and on a dark blue Prius you will not even notice it until up real close. The panels have a 25 year live. The idea is for the local commuter, you drive 20-30 miles or so to work on electric power only, AC and radio working just fine and park at your job. During the day the 350 watt AGT panels are charging your Prius and you drive home using ZERO gas and ZERO electric from the grid. This is not on the 10 Obama years plan is will happen in less than a year and the install on the Prius will be less than a grand.

17. Oil. Hmmmmm the elephant in the room. Well we do have major oil in Florida, California, Alaska, and lest also think about the Russians laying claim to the arctic.

18. Coal....another elephant. Coal is abundant more therms than Saudi has oil therms. Coal can be burned cleanly.

19. Shale oil. 2 trillion barrels....not billion trillion!!!!!! thats a billion with 3 zeros on it!!!! As SMOKEY says the shale slag left over is a problem.

20 Garbage. My home town is making 5 megawatts of electric power from methane garbage gas. WHY is this not happening every place!

21. Taxes on imported energy, tax credits on home grown energy!!!!!

22. OK now the Roofeditor (Obama years) plan for solar-algae-biodiesel-plan. in 10 years we will be driving a car/truck with algae based biodiesel. Uh 10 years isn't that far away, if you (we) don't start NOW 10 years will be never!!!!

Search solar power in Spain on the GMC/Opel plant. We are installing our panels right now. 12 million watts.

Search wind power in GeorgeC's area. Well close. 350 (million watts) of wind power on "Tug Hill". Right NOW. and the 100 residents (Farmers) EACH get $1700 a month rent for their land and still grow crops! A win win!!!

Got to go for a appointment and I'm taking my 40 mpg harley! beats the PU by a mile, beats the Accord by 10 mpg and it's FUN!

RE!

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by roofeditor

Search wind power in GeorgeC's area. Well close. 350 (million watts) of wind power on "Tug Hill". Right NOW. and the 100 residents (Farmers) EACH get $1700 a month rent for their land and still grow crops! A win win!!!RE!

Altamont Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Windmills on Altamont Pass

I used to drive through there when I worked at an airline back in the '80s. there has been many legal battles about the birds being killed. Wind power is not new by any means. For the record I am PRO wind/nuclear power.

[Beast]

The only way to get many of these altenatives up and running is to change the environmental laws so the extreme environmentalist can't hold up the projects in court.

[action4478]

Originally Posted by MackE7

The science of global warming is just a little bit different than Y2K ! And so are the potential effects.

I'm aware of the differences ,,,all the hype is the issue for me ...

Does anyone know how big the hole in the ozone layer was 5-10,000 years ago ?...How about a 100 years ago ...

How has the climate changed throughout history ,,Other than ice borings ,,there isn't much of a record ..

When Saddam lit the oil wells in Kuwait ,,there was talk of the smoke blocking out the sun ,,,


Speculation turned to fact ... (like in Y2K)...JMO....

[kude]

If the north pole melts away, like the glaciers, we can pretty sure believe in global warming. The argument is over attributing global warming to man made sources. A solar cycle can just be responsible as well.

I just read an article saying that pollution control devices have made the air clearer, therefore more sunlight/IR hits the earths's surface and heating up more. It seems, from the article, smog reflected a lot of incoming radiation.

Maybe out of pure necessity and cost, and not global warming, we are looking for alternatives.

I met with a farmer friend and explained to him the algae thing. He had heard about it and thought it made more sense than using soy beans or corn for fuel. I explained an idea for harvesting ponds of their algae and a method of doing so.

[NBhunter80]

haha, I'll jump in on a totally non-truck related debate.
First off, I will say that I am an environmental biologist and I am currently working in the nuclear health-physics field. I will also add another vote to the group of scientists that don't agree with Al Gore's global warming theory. Before I start my rant, I want to make it clear that in NO WAY am I saying that human activity has no negative impact on the environmnent. I believe that we humans will totally ruin any chance of sustainability of the earth if there is not a complete overhaul of the way things are currently being done in the very near future. With that being said, let me begin with a few statements that reflect my somewhat educated opinion on the subject:

1st: Global warming IS happening at this moment; however, it is not primarily caused to human activity. In case Al Gore didn't realise, we are coming out of an ICE AGE! Obviously it is alot warmer than 50,000 years ago, because back then, most of the planet was covered by ice. This is nothing new. As said before, the earth has had been going through cycles in global temperature for billions of years. Temperatures are currently on the rise; however, they will fall and we will plunge back into another ice age again in the future. Just look back to the times of the dinosaurs if you want to see how temperatures will cycle. Global temperatures were far warmer when dinosaurs ruled the earth than they are now. In fact, are current temperatures are sitting below the average temperature of the earth since the beginning of time. Al Gore and many other scientists are so anthrocentric that they only take into account the trends in temperature since humans have been around. We have arguably only been around for 50k-200k years, which is only at most 10% of the average lifespan of a species. My point being, yes, the earth is getting warmer right now. Is this anything new? No. Is this anything to worry about, No...it is inevitable.

The main thing in Al Gore's global warming theory (which is also shared by many other so-called "scientists") that I do not agree with is the statement that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is the cause of global warming. That is total B.S. in my opinion. First, CO2 is by far the LEAST abundant major compound in the earth's atmosphere (making up less that 0.04% of the earth's atmosphere). Second, CO2 is a greenhouse gas that actually has a net COOLING effect on the earth. This cooling effect occurs because atmospheric and aqueous CO2 undergo an endothermic reaction (requires the input of heat from the surroundings) with Calcareous rocks to produce Calcium Carbonate. This Calcium Carbonate is quite insoluble and therefor weathering of these rocks causes the CaCO3 to sink to the bottom of the ocean. Proof of this can easily be found by examing the layers of CaCO3 that are accumulating at the bottom of the ocean. This means that the available CO2 on earth (not only atmospheric) is actually decreasing over time. So what? you might ask. Well, for every mole (100.09g) of CaCO3 that is produced by this reaction, 61.99 kJ of energy is soaked up from the surroundings. The point is to show that CO2 is a "greenhouse gas"; however, due to the endothermic reactions that occur between CO2 and other materials, the net warming effect of CO2 is MUCH less than that of other greenhouse gasses such as Methane and even Water vapour. Global warming will happen at a GREATER rate if the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is reduced. An even more scary scenario is presented if the pCO2 in the atmosphere becomes too low: the death of all plants. Since plants are the major suppliers of free Oxygen in the atmosphere, if plants die, so does everything else. This is the most likely scenario of the end of the earth as we know it: CO2 levels decline due to the loss of free CO2 to the oceans in the form of Calcium Carbonate. Plants begin to die off because not enough CO2 available to support photosynthesis. Oxygen levels drop due to less O2 produced by plants. We suffocate and die, along with all Oxygen breathing organisms. The death of O2 breathing organisms stops the production of CO2 by cellular respiration, leading to even greater decline in CO2. Eventually, the earth is scorched and become uninhabitable and the extreme temperatures cause the photolysis of all free water on the earth. The hydrogen escapes and the earth remains a dry desert with no life for the remaining ~2billion years until the sun burns out and our whole solar system dies. Sounds like an pretty brutal end. Also, since we humans love to clearcut rainforests and destroy the vast majority of plants on earth, much less filtering of the air by plants is occurring today than ever before, and this only accelerates our problem of a polluted atmosphere.

Well, to end my rant I will say this. There are far greater problems in this world than global warming. Population density, pollution, and nuclear war are just a few of the factors which pose a far greater danger to the earth than increasing CO2. I just wish people wouldnt hear something and immediately jump on the band wagon and promote a cause before they first research whether their cause is legitimate or not. Just my $.02 I guess.

[macmaniac1]

gore only wants the co2 tax because he is set to become a billionare almost overnight. I came across a presentation out on you tube in which he is telling fellow oil investors to invest in green tech and get out of oil like he did. He said that he has a plan to get a co2 tax passed. Which will force the common person to invest in green tech. and pay a smaller amount of the tax or don't and just pay more. Al has made him a win-win situation. The tax money collected is supossed to go and help pay for the upstart and maintainance of these businesses(his investments) as he makes money from the sales of the products from them by making his co2 tax law. He is pro-green alright. Only the green that ends up in his wallet.
I believe that a "true green" politician will use tax incentitives and breaks to encourage people and businesses to "go green". This will go over a lot better than having the population scramble to find more money to pay for this tech and pay yet another tax.
Speeking of increased taxes, can anyone tell me how can obama tax our already financially strapped economy back to prosperity and fix all of our problems in all in about ten years? hear is my idea. he waits for the next administration to fix his mess. Just like bush has been dealing with the clinton era. I get this reasoning from a political professor that pointed out that business cycles last typically somewhere around 8 years. the longterm policies put into effect by one administration can take up to a full eight years to be fully realized. This means that the policies that bush and his administration has come up with now to deal with the economy will be seen way down the road. well that is my .02 for what it is worth for now.

[macmaniac1]

I couldn't of said it better nbhunter80.

[drcampbell]

The real irony is that the American Physical Society didn't say that.

Climate Change
(Adopted by Council on November 18, 2007)

Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.

The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.

Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.