Changing to diesel could save us

[roofeditor]

Or at least increase what we get from a gallon by about 15%.

Gasoline has 115,000 btu per gallon
Bio-diesel has 133,000 btu per gallon
Ethanol has 75,000 btu per gallon.
#2 diesel 140,000 btu per gallon

Ethanol contains less energy than gasoline. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, gasoline has approximately 115,000 Btu/gal, and ethanol has approximately 75,500 Btu/gal. Therefore, ethanol contains 66 percent of the energy of gasoline. Consequently, gasoline, 90/10 and E85 have different energy contents. The energy content of 90/10 is 96.6 percent of gasoline’s energy content, and E85 has 70.8 percent of gasoline’s energy content.

Simply switching form Gas to diesels just by BTU's only would yeild a 15% reduction in imported oil. That alone is worth looking at.

Not to mention our affinity with the F-150 or Suburban as a car being simply retarded and outdated.

New Honda Accord (diesel) a 5 person fuillsize car claims they will get 50 mpg.

New Honda Pilot (diesel) coming in 2010/2011 is reported to get 35 mpg.

If Honda can make a Pilot that can carry 8 passengers and still get 35 mpg, imagine the fuel demand effect if they sold 900,000 of them a year. the 900,000 number is what Ford sold in 2005.

[UTAH]

You summarize the differences between diesel and gas well, Richard.

Let me throw in a variable that concerns me - and that's the one of market pressure. I think diesel is becoming a victim of its own success. For, as more people make the switch, the more the demand - and resultant price points. We end up with a scenario wherein the energy efficiencies are offset by cost.

Bill

[roofeditor]

Diesel prices are way out of whack but I think the change over to ULSD had a lot to do with it. All refineries are still not on line with ULSD.

Same for gasoline, 20 or so different formulations because many states and even cities have formed their own private EPA. That is retarded and say Denver for instance can't buy gas on the open market from say a Florida load because it doesn't meet Denver standards.

California in my not so humble opinion started all this "private country" crap.

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by UTAH

You summarize the differences between diesel and gas well, Richard.

Let me throw in a variable that concerns me - and that's the one of market pressure. I think diesel is becoming a victim of its own success. For, as more people make the switch, the more the demand - and resultant price points. We end up with a scenario wherein the energy efficiencies are offset by cost.

Bill

According to projections made last year by the Paris-based energy watchdog, OECD demand for diesel is expected to rise 22 percent between 2005 and 2012, a time period when much of the world is consistently cutting back on sulfur content in diesel.

That compares to a projected increase in gasoline demand of just under 3 percent over the same period, also made before the global economy began slowing.

So you are more correct that you might have imagined. Diesel is on the rise and we for some stupid reason export a lot of diesel. The stupid reason being $$$$$$$ obviously.

[roofeditor]

Organisation Economic Co-Operation and Development is located at Château de-la-Muette in Paris. I better get over there and straighten our those Frog relatives of mine!!!

https://www.oecd.org/image/0,3453,en..._1_1_1,00.html

[Packard8]

Originally Posted by roofeditor

Diesel prices are way out of whack but I think the change over to ULSD had a lot to do with it. All refineries are still not on line with ULSD.

Same for gasoline, 20 or so different formulations because many states and even cities have formed their own private EPA. That is retarded and say Denver for instance can't buy gas on the open market from say a Florida load because it doesn't meet Denver standards.

California in my not so humble opinion started all this "private country" crap.

They charge disproportionately more for diesel mostly because they can.....

The average Joe or Jane has the option of parking the car and taking the bus, carpooling, walking or riding a bike. Joe Diesel driving his OTR truck, Ag tractor, tugboat, road-grader etc doesn't have that option. It's shut up and pay or shut down your business.

As I understand it, diesel (even USLD) is much less refined than unleaded and should by all accounts be cheaper.

[macmaniac1]

I saw an intetesting thing on the history channel quite awhile back. They were showing the history of oil and gasoline. This program stated that the refineries have the ability to crack diesel or heavier molecules down to make gasoline or combine gas or lighter molecules and make diesel. Essencially they can make up for shortages on on either of the fuel demand equation. They should be able to make more oil into diesel if that does become the predominate engine of the future.

[MackE7]

A barrel of crude has a fixed number of btus in it. If you make it all into diesel, which has more btus per gallon, you get less of it. You can't change how many btus you get from a barrel.

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by MackE7

A barrel of crude has a fixed number of btus in it. If you make it all into diesel, which has more btus per gallon, you get less of it. You can't change how many btus you get from a barrel.

That's a good point. I wonder how much energy it takes to refine diesel vs Gasoline? I don't know!

[Packard8]

Originally Posted by MackE7

A barrel of crude has a fixed number of btus in it. If you make it all into diesel, which has more btus per gallon, you get less of it. You can't change how many btus you get from a barrel.

Then why, with the exception of the last few years has a gallon of diesel been historically priced at anywhere from 25% to 50% less than gasoline? The laws of thermodynamics haven't changed in the past few years, rather the suppliers have come to realize that they have the diesel users by the short & curlies.......

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by Packard8

Then why, with the exception of the last few years has a gallon of diesel been historically priced at anywhere from 25% to 50% less than gasoline? The laws of thermodynamics haven't changed in the past few years, rather the suppliers have come to realize that they have the diesel users by the short & curlies.......

My answer ULSD was the beginning of the rise of diesel over gas.

[toalpi]

For the sake of argument, lets forget about the price difference from the past and assumtions about past and present costs to refine gas vs diesel and all other variables. When you go to the pump, you are buying energy. Diesel fuel does have more energy than gasoline, therefore it stands to reason that diesel fuel would be more valueable than gas and would sell for a higher price. The variables such as getting the sulfer out and making/transporting/mixing ethanol and a whole host of complex other issues including that big one called "supply and demand" make it impossible to figure out the diesel vs gasoline price difference. In the big picture, one gallon of diesel fuel is more valueable than one gallon of gasoline because of the difference in energy provided. From that point we can add in all of the many variables.