Dialysis for Immigrants Drive Hospital Into Debt

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't answer my question.

Just as with any low wage, it only produces a profitable result if the production can be maintained or increased in addition to the raw materials remaining the same.

So, yeah, it might increase profits. Might just allow a company to remain competitive against overseas competition on the open market in addition to being taxed more heavily in the US vs outside. If they are paying the immigrants standard wages because of fraudulant ID's and SSN's, then there is no savings.

Don't forget about the risk of knowingly hiring illegals...That's a cost. Would certainly negate any profit.

I guess you're against immigrants?

I know you like minimum wages. What should the living wage be mandated as, AK?

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Don't forget about the risk of knowingly hiring illegals...That's a cost. Would certainly negate any profit.

What cost? How many companies have you ever heard of (out of the total who do it) that have been fined for hiring illegal aliens?

I guess you're against immigrants?

Don't your legs get tired making these absurd leaps? I'm against "illegal" immigration. However, I am also smart/honest enough to know that they have contributed mightily to our current standard of living. I don't know about you but, to me it's kind of nice not paying $5 for a head of lettuce.

I know you like minimum wages. What should the living wage be mandated as, AK?

I don't really know and am not afraid to say so. It would take a whole lot of number crunching, as well as an arbitrary...'minimum standard of living' to determine that.

And then the question becomes.................who gets to determine 'minimum standard?'



Wait, I have a great idea!!!!

Why don't you tell us what hourly amount you would need to maintain a 'minimum standard of living?'


.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

What cost? How many companies have you ever heard of (out of the total who do it) that have been fined for hiring illegal aliens?

Not sure. You should supply that as you are the one that is saying that companies are hiring illegal immigrants. If the government, with all its regulations that you say are in your interest, is not prosecuting or fining, then there must not be any.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Don't your legs get tired making these absurd leaps? I'm against "illegal" immigration. However, I am also smart/honest enough to know that they have contributed mightily to our current standard of living. I don't know about you but, to me it's kind of nice not paying $5 for a head of lettuce.

I don't eat lettuce, so I don't know if that's a good deal or not. Even then, you're right, I really haven't heard of any companies being fined for those illegal immigrants either. So, it must be based on market based wages then.

Regardless, the individuals working have decided that, at whatever wage, they are willing to work for that price. Value for value.

What do you define as illegal, AK? Is it just because they are from another country that you'd like to restrict their status? And what has the current administration done counter and following along with the previous administrations?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

I don't really know and am not afraid to say so. It would take a whole lot of number crunching, as well as an arbitrary...'minimum standard of living' to determine that.

Well, that's a cop out, and I don't believe you can come up with an answer anyway. Is current minimum wage high enough? Should it be $20 an hour? You should be able to pull that poverty level number out and come up with your answer, I would expect.


Anindividual makes the choice on what they are willing to accept. Similarly, a company, big or small, has to make a decision on what they are willing to accept for skills and pay, value for value. Or the can do many things. Close up shop, go in debt, move jobs to other places where the skills and/or market value is different.

How much does an illegal immigrant dialysis worker make?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

And then the question becomes.................who gets to determine 'minimum standard?'

You say that government will do that as you do not believe that corporations or the individuals that represent then or the individuals that actually work can make those rational value for value decisions for themselves. Isn't that a good thing in your opinion?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Wait, I have a great idea!!!!

Why don't you tell us what hourly amount you would need to maintain a 'minimum standard of living?'

Value for value.

Really depends upon what I'm doing. Some consulting I charge at $105 an hour. I'll do part time stuff for $10 an hour. Really depends upon the value for value opportunity that I'm trading with another individual or company. Am I being duped? Or do I need government regulation to tell me how much I should be making?

Maybe I should get into dialysis in Vegas if it is really as great of a thing as you believe. Are you going to put some money into it as an investment for your personal profitability?

[Super_Dave]

I'm coming up with the individual poverty rate at $10,830.
Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to this page, in 2004, American's worked and average of 1777 hours a year. Working time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pretty nice, really. With no weekend hours and holidays that's a hair over 7 hours a day.

Put that together and that makes $6.09 a hour.

But the actual average paid by those evil profit driven companies that need so much intervention is just under $18 an hour, page two.
NC BL 08/00/2006 NCS: Occupational Wages in the United States, June 2005 - Bulletin 2581
Right around 35 hours a week also. Those people haven't ran out of money yet as it also shows that the government folks are making an average of over $23 an hour.

Looks like the part time privately employed people are still over $10 an hour.

What's the purpose of minimum wage then? How much do you make in dialysis?

[fddriver2]

Taco Bell anyone???????

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by fddriver2

Taco Bell anyone???????

Boooong!!!

I'm a number seven...no lettuce on the crunchy taco.

[fddriver2]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Boooong!!!

I'm a number seven...no lettuce on the crunchy taco.

I got you covered..... You too AK.....

You and AK are like watching professional Ping Pong, fast and entertaining.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by fddriver2

I got you covered..... You too AK.....

You and AK are like watching professional Ping Pong, fast and entertaining.

And don't forget, I am a PSD owner. AK is just here to stir.

[fddriver2]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

And don't forget, I am a PSD owner. AK is just here to stir.

Then after Taco Bell, you and I will go out for beers.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by fddriver2

Then after Taco Bell, you and I will go out for beers.

Bah, we should just get everyone to meet at the Port Orange Steak House down your way. Not sure when I'm going to hit Daytona again though.

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Not sure. You should supply that as you are the one that is saying that companies are hiring illegal immigrants. If the government, with all its regulations that you say are in your interest, is not prosecuting or fining, then there must not be any. I don't eat lettuce, so I don't know if that's a good deal or not. Even then, you're right, I really haven't heard of any companies being fined for those illegal immigrants either. So, it must be based on market based wages then.

You are pulling my leg right? You actually think that illegal immigration is not a huge problem in the USA?

What do you define as illegal, AK? Is it just because they are from another country that you'd like to restrict their status?

That's such an easy question to answer, you disappoint me that you would set yourself up like this.

‘Illegal’ = Breaking the law.
‘Illegal alien’ = An alien who is present in a country (which is foreign to him/her) unlawfully or without the country's authorization may be called an illegal alien of that country.

Your statement leaves me no choice but to believe that you either personally employee, or approve of, illegal immigrants working in the United States

And what has the current administration done counter and following along with the previous administrations?

NOTHING!!! And THAT is the problem!!

Well, that's a cop out, and I don't believe you can come up with an answer anyway. Is current minimum wage high enough? Should it be $20 an hour? You should be able to pull that poverty level number out and come up with your answer, I would expect.

Per your own link in your next post, a single person needs to make $10, 830 a year to stay above the ‘poverty line.’ A family of 4 would need $22,050 a year.

Your assertion that the average working hours a year is 1,777 doesn't count holidays and vacation/sick days. The actual number of hours is 2,080 (40 hrs per week X 52 weeks).

Therefore a single person would need to make $5.20 per hour and a person with a wife and two kids (with only one person working) would need to make $10.60 per hour.

Since the minimum wage right now is only $7.25, that is barely enough for 2 people (with one working) to stay above the poverty line.

Anindividual makes the choice on what they are willing to accept. Similarly, a company, big or small, has to make a decision on what they are willing to accept for skills and pay, value for value. Or the can do many things. Close up shop, go in debt, move jobs to other places where the skills and/or market value is different.

And that is what has happened. In the name of ‘profits,’ companies have shipped a lot of our work overseas to countries whose citizens are willing to work for $10 a day. Which is why 70% of our economy is now based on buying things….....…instead of making them.

How much does an illegal immigrant dialysis worker make? Maybe I should get into dialysis in Vegas if it is really as great of a thing as you believe. Are you going to put some money into it as an investment for your personal profitability?

What does that have to do with anything? I think you have failed to read/understand the original post. It is talking about a hospital going out of business because it is providing dialysis to illegal aliens who won’t/can’t repay them. Now how long could YOU stay in business if you weren’t paid?

You say that government will do that as you do not believe that corporations or the individuals that represent then or the individuals that actually work can make those rational value for value decisions for themselves. Isn't that a good thing in your opinion?

I believe the government should write laws (and enforce them) that protect American citizens. Obviously you don’t and believe that companies should be left on their own and will do the ‘right thing.’

You do realize that the whole reason unions came into existence in the first place is because of this type of thinking…..don’t you?

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

And don't forget, I am a PSD owner. AK is just here to stir.

And that gives your opinion more credence because......................??????

FWIW - I originally joined this site in May of 2003 (edited upon research) when I owned a 6.0hno PSD. (see my photo's)

If being a PSD owner is the sole requirement to contribute to discussions here, then show me where it says that and I'll let you try to bully those who may not want to put the time in to show you where you are wrong.

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by fddriver2

I got you covered..... You too AK.....

I was down your way (Coral Springs) a month or so ago when my wife's younger brother unexpectedly died.

Wouldn't have mattered anyway because she doesn't like Taco Bell but..................I love it!!

[drcampbell]

Originally Posted by fddriver2

You and AK are like watching professional Ping Pong, fast and entertaining.

More like watching a grandfather clock pendulum. Predictable, pedantic and not going anywhere it hasn't already gone numerous times before.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

You are pulling my leg right? You actually think that illegal immigration is not a huge problem in the USA?

Immigration problems have been caused and developed by policy that has not protected individual rights. Those rights to property and liberty have been taken by government through taxation and other strange budgetary concerns and policies that give the work of hard working people, by force, to illegal immigrants. Get rid of the feeding trough, most problems will go away.

Self responsibility is an outstanding cure.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

‘Illegal’ = Breaking the law.

Sure. And at one time it was legal to have slaves. Democrats really pushed to keep things that way. So, the morality of law is certainly in question. They are not equal.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

‘Illegal alien’ = An alien who is present in a country (which is foreign to him/her) unlawfully or without the country's authorization may be called an illegal alien of that country.

Yes. Statutory regulation.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Your statement leaves me no choice but to believe that you either personally employee, or approve of, illegal immigrants working in the United States

You "believe"? Honestly, you appear to be trying to channel some kind of mystical knowledge. I don't employ any.

If you'd like to reduce the illegal immigration problem, in addition to many others, decide that your work is your work and that you do not advocate the force taken by government to take from others to give to others in the pursuit of altruistic and political gain.

I already made my statement about immigration. Nothing more is necessary.


NOTHING!!! And THAT is the problem!!

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Per your own link in your next post, a single person needs to make $10, 830 a year to stay above the ‘poverty line.’ A family of 4 would need $22,050 a year.

No, they don't need to. Families are not generated by spontaneous combustion. They are generated by individuals. If they bring individuals into the world, they must be responsible for them.

They have no right to place their responsibilities upon the rights of others.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Your assertion that the average working hours a year is 1,777 also counts holidays and vacation/sick days. The actual number of hours is 2,080 (40 hrs per week X 52 weeks).

Not my assertion. That is the government data. You do support government data, correct?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Therefore a single person would need to make $5.20 per hour.

So, you're saying that minimum wage is over 35% too high?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Since the minimum wage right now is only $7.25, that is barely enough for 2 people (with one working) to stay above the poverty line.

Two people working for two people at minimum wage for 1777 hours a year (35 hours a week), would be over $25,000. That's above the poverty mark for four people. It's well above the poverty mark, twice as much, for two people.

Either way, those people should go out and get some skills, get a better job (as you read the data that showed the average hourly wage as about $10 more than minimum wage), and wait until their financially responsible to be responsible enough to have a family. You have a choice to dip the wick.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

And that is what has happened. In the name of ‘profits,’ companies have shipped a lot of our work overseas to countries whose citizens are willing to work for $10 a day.

Less than that. I deal with an industry where a company in Massachusetts pays their workers $20 an hour plus benefits. They are the only one really left in the US for their size of production. Their competition outsources production to India and Pakistan for $0.80 to $2.20 an hour. Don't forget that the US has a punitive corporate tax rate for the "evil" businesses.
The Tax Foundation - U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes
You would know that because you own a business and employ people?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

What does that have to do with anything? I think you have failed to read/understand the original post. It is talking about a hospital going out of business because it is providing dialysis to illegal aliens who won’t/can’t repay them. Now how long could YOU stay in business if you weren’t paid?

Well...LOL!...how long would it take you to decide not to offer a product made in the USA if you could make it elsewhere for less because there are people that think that businesses are bad and must pay for the cares and concerns of others? Who's money is it? How long before an individual stops looking for a job and just takes the unemployment? Why work, after all, if he does, he'll be working through August just to pay for the various forces of your government anyway.

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

I believe the government should write laws (and enforce them) that protect American citizens.

Then you support my opportunity as a citizen to reject the force of government to remove Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid from my pay check as that protects me. Or are you going to be the one that decides for everyone under some kind of collective authority that only you have knowledge of? Or are you abdicating that to some academic?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Obviously you don’t and believe that companies should be left on their own and will do the ‘right thing.’

What is "right thing"?

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

You do realize that the whole reason unions came into existence in the first place is because of this type of thinking…..don’t you?

What is "this type of thinking"?


The place my dad worked is gone. Union. So, that kind of thinking didn't work did it? Why are Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Honda, and other car companies successful in the US while GM and Chrysler are not?