Optima Batteries made in mexico

[NYB]

First of all, who ever said that Odyssey batteries don't have a vent doesn't know the facts. Odyssey batteries DO have a vent. You just can't see it very easily. It is a hidden rectangular opening, about 3mm tall by 9mm wide, between the side and top of the case. I own two Odyssey batteries. Absolutely the best batteries I've ever owned, by the way.

Second of all, even with a vent, the Odyssey battery is still spillproof, because there is no free acid inside the battery; all of the acid is kept absorbed in the glass mat separators. Visit the Enersys website to read the FAQS for yourself. ODYSSEY Batteries - FAQ

Third of all, Odyssey batteries are Made in the USA. Warraenburg, MO, to be exact.

To some people, this isn't important. The Moon, or Mexico, no matter. But to others who are willing to vote with their pocketbooks to keep their brothers and sisters employed, it DOES make a difference. And the Odyssey battery provides like minded individuals the opportunity to make that vote of choice.

When I bought my Ford truck, I refused to buy one with a "3" in front of the VIN. I held out for truck with a "1" in front of the VIN. "3" means made in Mexico. "1" means made in the USA. Same truck, same price. So why not support my countrymen and women? Nothing against Mexico, I'd just rather have employed people living next door to me, rather than an unemployed and desparate middle class slipping into destitution, despondency, and ultimately depression.

There are two models of Oddessy batteries that are made in the UK (England)... the very smallest, and the very largest. Neither of those two sizes properly fit a Ford truck of any type, so you can be assured that any Odyessey battery you buy for your Ford (or Chevy or Dodge) will be Made in USA.

Fourth of all, the Sears Die Hard Platinum P4 is an Odyssey battery. Make sure that it isn't just a "Die Hard" nor a "Die Hard Gold." It must be a PLATINUM. The batteries are identical electrically and in construction. The only difference is the color of the plastic case and the label. I re-verified this fact today by calling two different departments at Enersys. You can read the announcement of this distribution deal here: News Release=


Fifth of all, OPTIMA brand batteries, that are now made exclusively off shore or over the border, have gone downhill for YEARS. Maybe the guy that used to work for them will get his tongue gouged out for spilling the beans, but I don't have any relationship with ANY battery company, so I'm not afraid to speak. Unlike Odyssey, which uses pure virgin lead, Optimas at some point reportedly began using recycled lead. I don't know if this began when JCI (Johnson Controls) took over in 2000, or when that Swedish company bought Optima back in 1994 or so.

Recycled lead doesn't hold up like virgin pure lead. But it sure costs less.

Up until at least 1993, Optima's were using pure lead, and they were the best battery available at the time. The technology spiracell used in Optima batteries was protected by patent, and that patent was owned by a subsidiary of the Gates Corporation, which invented this battery back in 1967. This same group, through a series of sales, acquisitons, and spin-offs is now part of Enersys Corporation, as the Odyessy group.

The Optima brand was sold twice, and the brand that made a solid name for itself in the '70's, and even more so in the '80s, was leveraged by each buyer to capitalize on the consumer's awareness and perception of quality, with cost cutting measures to generate more profits. The end result is what we have today... the Optima battery that still enjoys a lingering "mystique" of being "the best", while suffering the malignment of being built like the worst.

The Optima's former stellar reputation has been supplanted by stone cold reality. Optima's are NOT the best. They are a sucker's battery, riding on a tailwind of an illustrious past, and not worth the price they fetch at Sam's Club, much less the premium they charge at the speed shops.

Finally, that Kinetik brand? They are a marketing company. They don't manufacture anything. I recognized one of their power supplies as the same powersupply for the 12V converter/powersupply that my motorhome came equiped with 10 years ago. I know Kinetik doesn't make that powersupply, because I've had to call the real manufacture when I wanted to upgrade a charge control circuit to my motorhome.

As for the Kinetik batteries, they are not capacitor banks. They are Absorbed Glass Mat batteries. Only they are reportedly manufactured in China, by a private labeler called B&B. That information came from an insider in the industry whom I called today as a result of this thread. It has not been verified by me. And I'm not flying to China to do so.

Want a good quality, USA made, spillproof, maintenance free, high ampacity, 4 year guaranteed replacement, 2 year non-charged shelf life battery that is manufactured by the same USA company that supplies batteries to our Miltitary Aircraft and tactical vehicles? Try looking here: EnerSys Home

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by NYB

First of all, who ever said that Odyssey batteries don't have a vent doesn't know the facts. Odyssey batteries DO have a vent. You just can't see it very easily. It is a hidden rectangular opening, about 3mm tall by 9mm wide, between the side and top of the case. I own two Odyssey batteries. Absolutely the best batteries I've ever owned, by the way.

Second of all, even with a vent, the Odyssey battery is still spillproof, because there is no free acid inside the battery; all of the acid is kept absorbed in the glass mat separators. Visit the Enersys website to read the FAQS for yourself. ODYSSEY Batteries - FAQ

Third of all, Odyssey batteries are Made in the USA. Warraenburg, MO, to be exact.

To some people, this isn't important. The Moon, or Mexico, no matter. But to others who are willing to vote with their pocketbooks to keep their brothers and sisters employed, it DOES make a difference. And the Odyssey battery provides like minded individuals the opportunity to make that vote of choice.

When I bought my Ford truck, I refused to buy one with a "3" in front of the VIN. I held out for truck with a "1" in front of the VIN. "3" means made in Mexico. "1" means made in the USA. Same truck, same price. So why not support my countrymen and women? Nothing against Mexico, I'd just rather have employed people living next door to me, rather than an unemployed and desparate middle class slipping into destitution, despondency, and ultimately depression.

There are two models of Oddessy batteries that are made in the UK (England)... the very smallest, and the very largest. Neither of those two sizes properly fit a Ford truck of any type, so you can be assured that any Odyessey battery you buy for your Ford (or Chevy or Dodge) will be Made in USA.

Fourth of all, the Sears Die Hard Platinum P4 is an Odyssey battery. Make sure that it isn't just a "Die Hard" nor a "Die Hard Gold." It must be a PLATINUM. The batteries are identical electrically and in construction. The only difference is the color of the plastic case and the label. I re-verified this fact today by calling two different departments at Enersys. You can read the announcement of this distribution deal here: News Release=


Fifth of all, OPTIMA brand batteries, that are now made exclusively off shore or over the border, have gone downhill for YEARS. Maybe the guy that used to work for them will get his tongue gouged out for spilling the beans, but I don't have any relationship with ANY battery company, so I'm not afraid to speak. Unlike Odyssey, which uses pure virgin lead, Optimas at some point reportedly began using recycled lead. I don't know if this began when JCI (Johnson Controls) took over in 2000, or when that Swedish company bought Optima back in 1994 or so.

Recycled lead doesn't hold up like virgin pure lead. But it sure costs less.

Up until at least 1993, Optima's were using pure lead, and they were the best battery available at the time. The technology spiracell used in Optima batteries was protected by patent, and that patent was owned by a subsidiary of the Gates Corporation, which invented this battery back in 1967. This same group, through a series of sales, acquisitons, and spin-offs is now part of Enersys Corporation, as the Odyessy group.

The Optima brand was sold twice, and the brand that made a solid name for itself in the '70's, and even more so in the '80s, was leveraged by each buyer to capitalize on the consumer's awareness and perception of quality, with cost cutting measures to generate more profits. The end result is what we have today... the Optima battery that still enjoys a lingering "mystique" of being "the best", while suffering the malignment of being built like the worst.

The Optima's former stellar reputation has been supplanted by stone cold reality. Optima's are NOT the best. They are a sucker's battery, riding on a tailwind of an illustrious past, and not worth the price they fetch at Sam's Club, much less the premium they charge at the speed shops.

Finally, that Kinetik brand? They are a marketing company. They don't manufacture anything. I recognized one of their power supplies as the same powersupply for the 12V converter/powersupply that my motorhome came equiped with 10 years ago. I know Kinetik doesn't make that powersupply, because I've had to call the real manufacture when I wanted to upgrade a charge control circuit to my motorhome.

As for the Kinetik batteries, they are not capacitor banks. They are Absorbed Glass Mat batteries. Only they are reportedly manufactured in China, by a private labeler called B&B. That information came from an insider in the industry whom I called today as a result of this thread. It has not been verified by me. And I'm not flying to China to do so.

Want a good quality, USA made, spillproof, maintenance free, high ampacity, 4 year guaranteed replacement, 2 year non-charged shelf life battery that is manufactured by the same USA company that supplies batteries to our Miltitary Aircraft and tactical vehicles? Try looking here: EnerSys Home

They have a pretty good rep in the Harley world and the boat world.

[drcampbell]

Originally Posted by TonkaThunder

So how do PHCA's work? What are they?

It's just another way to test batteries.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) is the current at which a battery will sustain a terminal voltage of at least 1.2 Volts per cell for 30 seconds at -18 degrees Celsius.

Cranking Amps (CA) is the same test, at 0 degrees C.

Pulse Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA) is the same test, at 25 degrees C, and for five seconds instead of thirty.

[444-4D]

Originally Posted by drcampbell

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) is the current at which a battery will sustain a terminal voltage of at least 1.6 Volts per cell for 30 seconds at -18 degrees Celsius.

I thought it was 1.2 volts. Was it once 1.2 volts?

[PRDATR]

Originally Posted by rmcgraw351

Its official now. I have worked at Optima Batteries for 11 years. In 2000, Johnson controls bought Optima and immediatly began construction of a plant in mexico. We were told that our U.S. plant could not produce enough product so the plant in mexico would be to supply Europe. Slowly but surely, our product lines began being transferred to mexico. Then the week before Thanksgiving, we were told that the U.S. plant will be closed Jan.24 2009. Just thought you all would like to know.

cbs4denver.com - Aurora Battery Maker Moves Operations To Mexico

Really sorry to see them doing thta, but JCI has always been about profits. Back when they closed down the panel shop in Ohio and moved production to Mexico, and closed down the valve plant in Wisconsin, and moved it to Mexico, and when they moved transformer manufacture to again Mexico.
Lots of people lot jobs each time. We are talking good jobs where many people worked for years and years. They also went branch to branch across the country a few years ago laying off many people, targeting lots of "lifers" and changing job descriptions and handing out paycuts to those who stayed on while secretly hiring and training people to take the positions left vacant of people, some who had worked for 20+ years, to do the same job for far less pay and minimum benefits. Ironically a few short months later they announced the were purchasing York. Coincidence?

[drcampbell]

Originally Posted by 444-4D

I thought it was 1.2 volts. Was it once 1.2 volts?

Right you are.
Much as I would love to write it off as a typographical error, it was actually a brain-o-graphical error.

[CDX825]

Odyssey must have fixed the swelling issue but like I said about 4 years ago it was all over the place.

I'm going to stick with Deka! They don't cost a small fortune and have been around allot longer than Odyssey. They are also made here.They make batteries for the following as well. Carquest, Napa, Exxon, Sunoco, Gulf, Taylor-Blackburn Systems (TBS), Wonch, and several other brand names.

[rmcgraw351]

Originally Posted by 444-4D

For those of you that are thinking about Odyssey batteries, Sears has what appears to be the same battery in a group 65 for under 200 bucks.

You are correct! Once sears discovered JCI's policy of quantity over quality they replaced the optima's with the odyssey's.

[rmcgraw351]

Originally Posted by NYB

Fifth of all, OPTIMA brand batteries, that are now made exclusively off shore or over the border, have gone downhill for YEARS. Maybe the guy that used to work for them will get his tongue gouged out for spilling the beans, but I don't have any relationship with ANY battery company, so I'm not afraid to speak. Unlike Odyssey, which uses pure virgin lead, Optimas at some point reportedly began using recycled lead. I don't know if this began when JCI (Johnson Controls) took over in 2000, or when that Swedish company bought Optima back in 1994 or so.

Recycled lead doesn't hold up like virgin pure lead. But it sure costs less.

Up until at least 1993, Optima's were using pure lead, and they were the best battery available at the time. The technology spiracell used in Optima batteries was protected by patent, and that patent was owned by a subsidiary of the Gates Corporation, which invented this battery back in 1967. This same group, through a series of sales, acquisitons, and spin-offs is now part of Enersys Corporation, as the Odyssey group.

All of this is correct with slight differences, When the Swedes owned optima, they paid us well and quality was foremost of all at all cost. JCI is the company that KILLED optima batteries, we always had 99.99 pure lead until JCI bought optima. The first thing they did was: fired all of the on staff scientists, then fired all of the PHD's, then fired the chemists, then dismantled the chemistry lab, then dismantled the prototype lab, then got rid of the pure lead and replaced it with lead with higher tin content, then JCI brought in their genius engineers and re formulated the lead acid paste, then replaced the AGM paper with lower grade paper, ex cetera, ex cetera. All of this was done within the first 2 years of their ownership! We had to fight like hell to prove that what we had when they purchased us was superior to what they had done.
we finally convinced them to begin returning to some of the successful methods Gates had originally designed, but only after making them think that it was their idea. When the U.S. plant shut down, we were using pure lead, similar to original paper and similar paste formula, however, there were many, many other changes they had made in the manufacturing process that negatively affected the optima but produced higher volumes. In my opinion, the Enersys Odyssey is, by far, the very best battery on the market today. I am aware of some of the mfg practices being used specifically on the optima in mexico, and they are not conducive to quality!

[PRDATR]

rmcgraw351,
When did the warranty change from 5/7 to what I think now is 3/5? Was that when JCI took over?

[LMJD]

This same group, through a series of sales, acquisitons, and spin-offs is now part of Enersys Corporation, as the Odyssey group.

rmcgraw351, I have a question also, if you don't mind. Are the Oddsseys the spiracell type construction like the Optimas? I have two Optimas in my F250 that will be six years old next month, so I'm about due for new batteries. I've been real happy with the service I've had from the Optimas, but after reading this thread, sounds like they're not the way to go anymore.

[rmcgraw351]

Yeah, JCI took over in 2000, and the warranty schedule started to be revised shortly after they re-rated the batteries.

[rmcgraw351]

Originally Posted by LMJD

rmcgraw351, I have a question also, if you don't mind. Are the Oddsseys the spiracell type construction like the Optimas? I have two Optimas in my F250 that will be six years old next month, so I'm about due for new batteries. I've been real happy with the service I've had from the Optimas, but after reading this thread, sounds like they're not the way to go anymore.

LMJD,
No the oddessey's are flat plate, but, they were one of the gates spinoff companies along with optima. The battery chemistry is the same. I wouldnt have said this when I was employed @ optima, but the spiral shaped cell actually has less surface area for energy production than a flat plate does, a flat plate battery has substantially more surface area. The main idea for the spiral shaped cell is for vibration resistance, and originally, to alter the footprint configuration, but be carful not to bang the radius of the case, (it doesnt take much), because that shorts the plates inside and greatly reduces the battery life. The flat plate AGM battery of oddessey is basically an original chemistry optima un rolled, so to speak. The cells are much better protected from shorting and technology has increased to the point where they can compress the plates so efficiently, that vibration resistance is comparable, but with the added bonus of more surface area. Some of the engineers that were displaced by jci when they took over optima, went to oddessey. Based on my experience at optima, with their engineers, scientist, PHD's and chemists, as well as with other people that I became friends with that had been involved with the invention and development of the gates battery chemistry, (GEP), my choice of batteries is very clear, I will choose oddessey.

[LMJD]

I thank you for the quick reply and good information. I've never had any batteries last as long as my current Optimas, so since the Oddesseys are even better nowdays, I'll go that route.

[Domenic]

Well my truck has been a slow cranking this winter with the two-year old yellow top Optima’s, so I went to Sears and purchased two Die Hard Platinum batteries ($189.99 each) What a difference, starts like a new truck again. Thanks for posting this thread, great timing!