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Call or write to your congressional rep and ask that person if they are going to give up their personal health insurance plan for the government plan that is coming out. Their answer will tell you what they think of this current effort to enslave all of us.
DF..Do you have any kind of medical ins. that YOU (yourself) actually pay for?
My family has had both insurance that we paid for out of pocket and insurance that we paid for by having our employers write the check and reduce our salary. Ultimately, we paid for both but I do realize that the "group" discount of "employer provided" insurance can provide discount rates (and is currently not taxed as income).
I am not defending the current system. It is far from perfect. Personally, I would like to see greater responsibility (and freedom) on the shoulders of the people. I would like to be able to purchase a cheaper policy that covers only the "very large, unexpected health problems", with a very high deductible. I would write a check for all routine checkups.
That is what I have on my homeowner and auto insurance. I have the maximum deductible allowed, pay for all routine issues and even small to medium "emergencies" out of pocket but enjoy a much lower rate. Imagine how high our homeowner's insurance premiums would be if that insurance was expected to pay for repainting, new windows, appliances and carpet, remodeling, etc? Why do we expect our health insurance to pay for even the smallest routine procedure? Get the insurance companies (and heaven help us, the federal government) out of 100% of these small transactions and market pressures would force prices down.
Make no mistake: If we make the proposed move to "universal" health care, it will be at the cost of increased wait times, rationed services and reduced choices for consumers. To borrow a phrase I read recently from Mark Steyn:
Quote:
It's ridiculous for grown men and women to say: I want to be able to choose from hundreds of cereals at the supermarket, thousands of movies from Netflix, millions of songs to play on my iPod—but I want the government to choose for me when it comes to my health care.
Most of us have grown up in this great country where freedom is taken for granted. The fact that it can be lost is beyond comprehension for many. But again and again we are voting to lose bits of freedom in the name of some supposed benefit. It is easy (and sometimes tempting) to move in this direction, but once freedoms are lost, they are can be exceedingly difficult to regain.
... you are often required to have LIABILITY insurance because your car is capable of doing great harm to life and property of others. You are free to not pay for coverage to pay for damages to your own life or car. ...
As opposed to, say, a busboy or dishwasher walking around with undiagnosed tuberculosis?
We have a public health crisis which the private sector has proved incapable of solving. A fifth of the country has no access to health care. Three fifths are being bled dry by insurance premiums and are still at risk of being entirely ruined by a serious illness or accident. It's time to put results ahead of ideology.
What's mandated, and why, also varies from state to state. Maybe what you say is true in Texas, but Michigan's mandatory "No-Fault" law requires medical coverage for yourself to be included in vehicle insurance policies, but does not permit you to recover the cost of damage to a vehicle from the other driver.
It's not about any logically consistent philosophy or Constitutional framework, it's based on whatever insurance corporation lobbyists can get away with. It's long past time to slap their hand and put a lock on the cookie jar.
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Originally Posted by DirtFarmer
... I would like to be able to purchase a cheaper policy that covers only the "very large, unexpected health problems", with a very high deductible. I would write a check for all routine checkups.
So who's preventing you from doing just that? Oh, right: For-profit insurance corporations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Steyn:
It's ridiculous for grown men and women to say: I want to be able to choose from hundreds of cereals at the supermarket, thousands of movies from Netflix, millions of songs to play on my iPod — but I want the government to choose for me when it comes to my health care.
Eloquent oratory, but it's red herring which has nothing to do with any of the current proposals. None of them -- not even H.R.676 -- would limit anybody's choice of health care. (Unlike for-profit medical insurance plans, HMOs and PPOs, which often have an "in-network" list of approved providers)
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Douglas Campbell
November 5, 2008: The fat lady sang. Back to actually working for a living.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles. Hella headlights, (highly recommended) DOT C-2 back end. (also recommended) R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. 4.1:1 rear axle converted to 3.4:1.
9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation due to rust.
Not affiliated with the Campbell Soup Company.
Last edited by drcampbell : 07-21-2009 at 08:55 AM.
One proposal // HOME PAGE // - HR676.org Certainly hard (for me) to piece together current news reports, comments, speculation being made on reform. I do believe we need health care reform, but how to actually do/pay for remains to be seen?
btw..good thread. We can agree/disagree or agree to disagree, but one's things for sure..change has started..more is coming for better/worse. JMO!
DF..Do you have any kind of medical ins. that YOU (yourself) actually pay for?
I'm not DF but before I joined the army, I paid for my own insurance coverage for about 7 years. If it wasn't for having a wife and kids, I probably never would have had health insurance. If you were to look at who actually used our coverage, it would be 99.9% my family. I don't get sick very often and not enough to visit a doctor or pay for coverage for myself. Why should I be penalized and have money that I work for taken away because I don't need or want something?? This is not about whether or not the current system is working or broken but about individual rights being trampled on and taken away. I have talked to people from Canada, Germany and other countries with socialized medicine and almost all of them will tell you that it is horrible. Trying to get what we consider routine medical care in the United States in those countries borders on insanity. Think about who is wanting to take our money and give it to someone else but do you honestly think they will give up their perks to help anyone of us??? I think not.
One of two things is happening: Either President Obama is becoming a deficit hawk, or he's laying the groundwork for torpedoing any meaningful health care reform plan.
Looking at his past and current spending priorities, I'm not putting any faith in the former.
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Douglas Campbell
November 5, 2008: The fat lady sang. Back to actually working for a living.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles. Hella headlights, (highly recommended) DOT C-2 back end. (also recommended) R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. 4.1:1 rear axle converted to 3.4:1.
9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation due to rust.
We have a public health crisis which the private sector has proved incapable of solving. A fifth of the country has no access to health care. Three fifths are being bled dry by insurance premiums and are still at risk of being entirely ruined by a serious illness or accident. It's time to put results ahead of ideology.
Here's some more "fifths" for you:
Of the uninsured:
One fifth are not US citizens.
Two fifths are young and choose to use their money on things other than health insurance.
One fifth are older, make over $75,000 per year and chose to not purchase health insurance.
Leaving one fifth who are US citizens that would like health insurance but currently do not have it. That's unfortunate, but the problem isn't as big as it is commonly portrayed.
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Originally Posted by drcampbell
Three fifths are being bled dry by insurance premiums and are still at risk of being entirely ruined by a serious illness or accident.
I read that 78% of those currently insured are satisfied with their health insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcampbell
Eloquent oratory, but it's red herring which has nothing to do with any of the current proposals. None of them -- not even H.R.676 -- would limit anybody's choice of health care. (Unlike for-profit medical insurance plans, HMOs and PPOs, which often have an "in-network" list of approved providers)
I think that it definitely does apply. It has been made clear that there will be rationing of services. Given the reduced profit potential for doctors and a planned for increased number of people being pushed through the system, the quantity and quality of care will decline for most unless the US govt has managed to suspend the laws of supply and demand.
You often knock for-profit insurers. They are currently helping to prop up medicare and medicaid. When those programs force doctors to accept artificially low rates, the doctors turn around and charge private insurance more to make up the difference. If this were not the case, for-profit insurance rates would be lower. Additional government intervention into medical care will make this situation worse until private insurance is prohibitively expensive and more move to the "public" option. When the private insurance industry dries up, the medical providers will be left in a very bad place. This will certainly not help them provide more and better care.
Here's an interesting stat that you surely will not see in the MSM: In one survey, 70% of Americans without health insurance were nevertheless "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with their health care!
Insurance companies used to make money y investing your premiums in stocks and bonds.
Ever since the stock market started tanking in 2000, for-profit insurance is no longer practical because there is no more investment income for the insurance company. All profit must now be taken from either the doctor or the client making their existence parasitic.
Deregulation of insurance and securities in 2000 allowed insurance companies to insure debt and thus be looted by Hedge Funds and Investment Banks like Goldman Sachs.
Personally I don't trust the government to do a good job with Universal Health Coverage. Like Ted Kennedy said, they will end up rationing.
However, the article points out we are already paying for UHC but really not getting it. For the amount of money we spend, we could have UHC without raising taxes.
We already have rationing. Read the "pre-approvals", "pre-existing conditions", "limitations", "covered conditions" and "in-network/out-of-network" paragraphs in your insurance policy - if you even have an insurance policy.
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Originally Posted by DirtFarmer
I read that 78% of those currently insured are satisfied with their health insurance.
That'd probably be the 78% who never had a serious incident and never did the math to figure out what they've been paying vs. what they've been getting. And just how much is being siphoned off the top. And reporting that they're "satisfied" to a pollster doesn't mean they're not being bled dry by premiums or still at risk of being entirely ruined by a serious illness or accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR
Here's an interesting stat that you surely will not see in the MSM: In one survey, 70% of Americans without health insurance were nevertheless "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with their health care
That's more a statement about declining expectations than it is about health care or health care funding. I've seen a survey (probably originating with Barbara Ehrenreich; I don't remember) that there are a substantial number of homeless people who self-identify as "not homeless" because they have access to a car to sleep in.
__________________
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Douglas Campbell
November 5, 2008: The fat lady sang. Back to actually working for a living.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles. Hella headlights, (highly recommended) DOT C-2 back end. (also recommended) R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. 4.1:1 rear axle converted to 3.4:1.
9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation due to rust.
Not affiliated with the Campbell Soup Company.
Last edited by drcampbell : 07-28-2009 at 01:41 PM.
Personally I don't trust the government to do a good job with Universal Health Coverage. Like Ted Kennedy said, they will end up rationing.
However, the article points out we are already paying for UHC but really not getting it. For the amount of money we spend, we could have UHC without raising taxes.
What do you guys think.
Good article Kude. I'd sure like to see us get more for the money we are paying, whether it is for health care, education, etc, etc.
We already have rationing. Read the "pre-approvals", "pre-existing conditions" and "limits" paragraphs in your insurance policy - if you even have an insurance policy.
You are right Doug. I just think that there will be fewer options if we go to a single payer option. If my current ins company does me wrong, then in theory, I can switch to another. If the health care price-setting-czar denies me coverage under a "public" option, I will have little recourse.
From what I've read and heard, it's the aged that are going to get the brownest end of the stick with the new plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcampbell
That'd probably be the 78% who never had a serious incident and never did the math to figure out what they've been paying vs. what they've been getting.
Could be some truth to that. Statistics, and even worse, polls should always be taken with a grain of salt.
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