stimulus watch

[Pappy19]

But you do remember that it was a Demoncrat congress that made it happen. Another mistake where a Republican President tried to "work together" with a Demoncrat Congress to get things done. Just look at the Bush's; they got screwed by a Demoncrat Congress when the President tried to work together, non partisan, for domestic tranquility. It has always backfired. Like I have said before, show me where a Demoncratic thrust or legislature, has helped private industry to excell and add jobs, which in turn, adds taxes. All they have done is to add EPA crap to the automotive industry and put them in a situation where the government and labor unions own GM and Chrysler. Well, we'll see how that works out. Did you hear that the Post Office is bankrupt?? I figure in a few years we'll have one (1) US, privately owned auto industry and it will be Ford. The other two will be owned either by China, Japan, or gone.

[checkthisout]

Originally Posted by Pappy19

Regarding power in Idaho, most of it comes from hydro facilities along the Snake River. And I pay for it every month, and it's a privately owned entity, but government regulated.

What private company owns the Dams, and how much yearly profit do they make? How does your rate per Kilowatt Hour compare to the rest of the country?

Originally Posted by Pappy19

You all say that there isn't much difference between the Demoncrats and Republicans.

There isn't. Republicans bailed out large investment houses because republicans see it as simply giving back some of the taxes that were unjustly thrown upon those honest, hardworking dervatives traders.

Democrats validate bailing out the banks because they thought it would help the population by preventing a depression.

The real truth is that both the Democrats and Republicans (sans some holdouts) helped the banks because both parties are full of cowards who are weak-willed and easily corrupted with money.

Hey though, they are working for a profit because that is the only reason to do anything right?

[checkthisout]

Originally Posted by Pappy19

But you do remember that it was a Demoncrat congress that made it happen. Another mistake where a Republican President tried to "work together" with a Demoncrat Congress to get things done. Just look at the Bush's; they got screwed by a Demoncrat Congress when the President tried to work together, non partisan, for domestic tranquility. It has always backfired. Like I have said before, show me where a Demoncratic thrust or legislature, has helped private industry to excell and add jobs, which in turn, adds taxes. All they have done is to add EPA crap to the automotive industry and put them in a situation where the government and labor unions own GM and Chrysler. Well, we'll see how that works out. Did you hear that the Post Office is bankrupt?? I figure in a few years we'll have one (1) US, privately owned auto industry and it will be Ford. The other two will be owned either by China, Japan, or gone.

EPA was created under Nixon. I don't feel like researching this much but I will put the same effort into the things I am saying as you are from now on.

NASA employs lots of private firms to do it's work. In turn, several countries have paid us to put their stuff into orbit.

The Interstate Highway System allows goods to be moved with great speed and efficiency and thus makes it easier for companies to market their goods to a wider range of people while keeping shipping costs low allowing more profit.

Cheap electrical power courtesy of BPA allowed a now defunct aluminum industry to thrive in Washington, Oregon and Idaho.

Lets see, the National and State Park Systems keeps areas of the country preserved for recreation allowing camping gear manufacturers to thrive and of course the RV's, snowmobilers and towns outside the parks.

Of course, all that would have happened if we would just cut these darn taxes on these large investment houses and had freer trade.

I mean after all, if Republicans have taught us anything, it's that if we are critical of the behavior of someone who has more money than us, it's out of nothing more than simple jealousy, not because we are concerned about the damage they are causing to environment, country or the economy.

[Pappy19]

Don't snitch on me Bro.

White House bashed for health care 'snitch' program


and it gets better-


YouTube - Glenn Beck: Cars.gov allows government to takeover your computer

[BobR]

Originally Posted by drcampbell

From World War II through the Carter years, the top federal tax bracket was 70% or more. (it was 94% of incomes over $200k in 1944) Government spending was also at a maximum during those years - remember the Cold War, the Interstate Highway System, the War on Poverty, Viet Nam and NASA? Not coincidentally, the economy was also at its most productive during those same years, and the very highest productivity was during WWII, when the government exercised very strong control.

You should add the 2009 US economy to your list of economic success stories. We're regulating, taxing and spending like no time in world history and the economy has taken off like a rocket!

[drcampbell]

You are entitled to your own opinions.
You are not entitled to your own facts.

The top marginal federal income tax rate is currently half what it was in the 1970s, and less than half what it was from 1936-1970. That is a true fact.
History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

[drcampbell]

Originally Posted by Pappy19

... All [the Demoncrat Congress has] done is to add EPA crap to the automotive industry and put them in a situation where the government and labor unions own GM and Chrysler. ...

Most of the improved emissions regulations (and research to make compliance technically feasible) came from the California Air Resources Board, not Congress. The US EPA followed along later.

Although new emission regulations took effect with the 2007 and 2010 model years, the last time the Clean Air Act was significantly changed was 1990. Say again, who was controlling Congress and the White House then?

All vehicle manufacturers, not just GM and Chrysler, must comply with EPA and CARB regulations equally. Why aren't all carmakers equally bankrupt?

The manufacturer's cost of emissions compliance is less than $200 per car. It didn't make or break any corporation's bottom line. As a side effect, we get engines that last twice as long and vehicles which use half as much fuel as they used in 1970.

The main reason GM collapsed is that their business model relied on always selling more cars and always having more employees than they did the year before, not external forces. It's an unsustainable model, but they kept with it.

[checkthisout]

Originally Posted by drcampbell

The main reason GM collapsed is that their business model relied on always selling more cars and always having more employees than they did the year before, not external forces. It's an unsustainable model, but they kept with it.

And they had debt holders holding money at 7.5% when money is going for 4.5%.

[kude]

Where the heck did the the silly term trickle down come from? Why would money trickle down to people who don't participate in the economy? This is just a jab at capitalism by silly people.

Well the economy is a heck of lot better with capitalists creating jobs and wealth than government spending money they don't have.

All I see coming is when I do make some capital gains, a big chunk is going to to Washington, instead of getting invested locally. Go ahead and tax some more and see the jobs go offshore some more.

I still believe a great economy does more for more people than government spending ever will. Now I feel sorry for poor people, but they better get with the program rather than wait for a government hand out that really is trickle down.

[checkthisout]

Originally Posted by kude

Where the heck did the the silly term trickle down come from? Why would money trickle down to people who don't participate in the economy? This is just a jab at capitalism by silly people.

Well the economy is a heck of lot better with capitalists creating jobs and wealth than government spending money they don't have.

All I see coming is when I do make some capital gains, a big chunk is going to to Washington, instead of getting invested locally. Go ahead and tax some more and see the jobs go offshore some more.

I still believe a great economy does more for more people than government spending ever will. Now I feel sorry for poor people, but they better get with the program rather than wait for a government hand out that really is trickle down.

How do Investment Banks create wealth?

If they create wealth with all the tax breaks they are given, then why did they have to buy off our politicians and loot the treasury?

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by kude

Now I feel sorry for poor people, but they better get with the program rather than wait for a government hand out that really is trickle down.

Not to say that there aren't some who want a handout but, that is a pretty simplistic view on why there are "poor" people and doesn't take into account the multitude of other reasons that poverty exists.

A big one being the people who, have worked hard all of their lives but, have had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com


"This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

[BobR]

Originally Posted by drcampbell

The top marginal federal income tax rate is currently half what it was in the 1970s, and less than half what it was from 1936-1970. That is a true fact.
History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

If the only component of taxes was the top marginal tax rate, the tax code would be one page long. There's more to the picture. For instance, during the 80's, the tax rates were cut significantly, but also a number of tax loopholes (shelters) were closed and tax revenues went UP.

Then there's the corporate tax, where the US currently shares the lead with Japan for highest tax on the planet.

Plus, some of Bush's tax cuts are set to expire soon and in their place, we're trying to add BIG TIME taxes and regulation in the form of cap and trade, new laws to bring more of our economy under the control of the unions, and also the attempted takeover of the health care industry.

On top of that, we will, before long, have to face the music of trillions of dollars of debt. Punishing taxes can't be too far down the road.

I do not believe that this will deliver us a strong economy.

But your statement:

Not coincidentally, the economy was also at its most productive during those same years, and the very highest productivity was during WWII, when the government exercised very strong control

tells me that you believe that "strong government control" and "very high productivity" go hand in hand. If this is the case, the US economy should soon be taking off.

We'll see if this is the case.

[drcampbell]

Originally Posted by BobR

... some of Bush's tax cuts are set to expire soon and in their place, we're trying to add BIG TIME taxes and regulation ...

If your hypothesis is correct, the country will begin entering a recession after those are enacted.

[kude]

Originally Posted by AK_Gandy

Not to say that there aren't some who want a handout but, that is a pretty simplistic view on why there are "poor" people and doesn't take into account the multitude of other reasons that poverty exists.

A big one being the people who, have worked hard all of their lives but, have had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com


"This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

So 1.5 million people get free health care every year while someone else pays the bill. Hmm that's 1.5 trillion dumped on the rest of us [at an average 100,000 per claim].

Hey I didn't have coverage and I got burned by a hospital bill, but I paid it back because that's the right thing to do. The hospital saved my life and its not fair to dump the costs of my life on someone else. But that's me.

Okay, maybe the government should provide automatic gap insurance until you get reemployed, but they better be on your butt about finding a job. I'd go with mandatory insurance to prevent these bankruptcies.

[AK_Gandy]

Originally Posted by kude

So 1.5 million people get free health care every year while someone else pays the bill. Hmm that's 1.5 trillion dumped on the rest of us [at an average 100,000 per claim].

Where the heck did you get the 1.5 million people get free health care at $100K per claim?

The article referenced that out of 1.5 million bankruptcies every year.......60% were due to medical bills.