1990 F-600 Diesel Dump (Cummins/ Ford Venture) - Diesel Forum

earthsurfing · 10-17-2009, 11:23 PM

Hi All,

I'm looking at getting my first dump truck for our farm. There's a 1990 F-600 with 145k on a Cummins Ford Venture for sale nearby. Looks in great shape- haven't been able to run it yet, or the hoist, etc.

Any known issues I should look out for? Recommendations for or against?

Other info on this truck or motor?

Thanks much!

Keep Truckin',
K

navistar45 · 10-18-2009, 10:18 AM

first make sure it's a cummins. not positive, but i'am thinking ford didnt start useing the cummins till 92. if it's the ford diesel, thats ok to. ford had a 6.6 and a 7.8 diesel, both were fine little engines, and i have had both in that application. only problem is finding replacement parts or another engine should the need arise. wouldnt be quite as easy as is the cummins. ford used the 5.9 and the bigger 8.3 in the same app. for daily work like the contruction trade, i wouldnt want another 5.9 powered one unless it was cheap. for farm use it will do fine. no real issue's with the trucks or the drivetrains. as for the bed, i prefer my dumps to have their own subframe. if this one dosent, make sure the truck is atleast a double frame model. chk for things like a twisted/broke frame, and bent hoist's. any questions, ask away. on edit; also look for thing like rust. in regions that use a lot of road salt, look for rusting of the suspension. also look for issue with rust between the double frame, if it has one . major rust can be a big problem.

earthsurfing · 10-18-2009, 11:12 AM

Hey Navistar,

Thanks for the response. Do you (or anyone) know any way I can tell if its the Cummins or not- or even just what engine it does have? Edit: It seemed like a 'straight 8' type.

The absence of rust is one of the reason's I'm attracted to this truck. Although- the cab is literally 100% rust free, the frame is a little rustier. Doesn't seem to have a 'double frame', nor a subframe for the dump bed.. I'll have to take a closer look.

I'm in Vermont, which eats vehicles alive. This ruck comes from Mass- so its a 'southern' truck. But that doesn't mean it hasn't seen its share of salt. In, fact I believe it was originally carrying a sander, so... probably most of its use was on snowy roads. Or maybe it was the one putting the salt out there!

Anyway, thanks for all of your help. Glad to find the forum.
K

nevrenufhp · 10-21-2009, 09:19 PM

Easy way to tell: The Fords will have the injector pump on the pass side, and the Cummins will be on the drivers. There's also the data plate/emissions sticker. The Fords will also have a Ford script on the slanted valve cover. Being a 90, it'll likely have a Ford engine.

earthsurfing · 10-21-2009, 10:48 PM

Thanks Nevrenuf,

Makes me suspicious of the seller- to be honest, who says:

"ford diesel, (cummins / ford venture) 145k+/- runs & wroks good, body is newer, no rust on cab"

Hmm..

I hope to drive it later this week.

Also an F800 in my area that looks interesting, low mileage, but seems to have some hoist/ hydraulics issues...

navistar45 · 10-22-2009, 10:43 AM

as neverhp stated, the pumps on the passenger side of the ford engines. also a even quicker way, the early cummins engines will have 6 individual valve covers. in a medium truck i would prefer the ford engines from a power standpoint, and likely a reliabilty standpoint. the cummins is a solid pickup engine, and light equipment engine. however from what i have witnessed, when the hp goes up, and the work[ like a medium is subject to] starts, the 5.9 cummins is not that impressive. to be quite honest, i have seen many 210hp 5.9 engines in mediums, replaced at low miles. lower hp engines seem to hold up better. for a farm truck, either will serve you well, if they chk out ok. btw; when ford cummins did their so called venture, the 5.9 was called a 1060 engine by ford. the engine data plate will show this info as well as build date of the engine. also, if you really want a good solid truck, with a good drivetrain, give the internationals a look. the dt466 engine they use is second to none. i have owned over 20 medium trucks over the years, gas and diesel. bottom line, i have concluded the the international is the best for the dollar.

earthsurfing · 10-22-2009, 12:44 PM

Thanks again, Navistar.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for an International- although most I have seen so far have been outside my budget (5k or so- ideally less).

I'll mostly be hauling rock and gravel, some compost and fill, etc. I do a (very) little bit of excavation work on the side with my Tractor/ Loader/ Backhoe, and this will probably see a little more use than the average 'farm dump'. I'll also want to be able to tow my tractor.

Any thoughts on how this 1990 F600 would compare to a 1987 F800:

87 F800 dump 32K GVW 29K original

(I mean mechanical reputation- I realize no one out there on the interwebs can compare the actual two trucks- which is the most important, of course!)

navistar45 · 10-23-2009, 09:30 AM

the bigger truck will likely have the bigger engine, and possibly even more tranny. many of the 600's simply came with 5sp manuals, or 4spd auto's, quite often juice brakes also. specs can/do vary from truck to truck, but this is a good rule of thumb. the 800's generally got 6 spd manuals/5sp auto's, and airbrakes[which i prefer]. although the dump box may be the same size on both trucks, you will have more suspension under the bigger truck, likely tires [size] also. if you have a tendecy to load/pull heavy like i do, go with the bigger truck if it's a sound one. thing's to consider, that you cant change. will you possibly need the higher gvw truck, cant gain or loose the trucks capacity on paper, if you need the gvwr's, lean that direction. the truck will hold up better, be safer, and likely perform better. if you want to stay under the radar with the d.o.t, go with the lighter truck. [keep in mind other circumstances come into play here also]. some ford trucks back in that era and earlier, had a funky brake system[juice over vacume i think], it was good till it broke. then it was contrary and a bit expensive to fix. research this some more. do you know what engine the 800 has in it?

earthsurfing · 10-23-2009, 07:50 PM

OK,

So, I got to check out and drive both trucks today. The F600 is a Ford Engine Family: LFM07 8EPC7

Model: 165.

Its nice- took a while to get it jumped. Felt like it wasn't shifting, but maybe I just didn't have the space to get the RPMs up.

Couldn't get the dump to dump because the cables were stuck.

The other- the F800 with only 29k was surprisingly rusty, and made me appreciate even more what good condition the F600 is. While the frame and sub-frame of the dump bed seemed good, the inside of the bed is very rusty, and the cab is literally rotting!

This one dumped fine, but then he says it takes about a day to go back down!

I realize both of these are probably minor issues- but I'm wary to get another 'project' as my first dump, and with a bunch of stuff I'm trying to do with it before winter's here full on.

The 600 is an auto (and might have the vacuum over juice brakes you mention) definitely not air.

The 800 is manual, air brakes, and would require a CDL unless all use was "personal".

I didn't write down the name of the motor on the 800, '205' maybe?

I appreciate your thoughts, Navistar, and see the benefit of going larger (just like barns and greenhouses, right- you'll need a bigger one as soon as its done?)

But this particular truck paled in comparison to the 600. ALthough I'd really like to see it dump!

Thanks for any thoughts.

nevrenufhp · 10-23-2009, 08:28 PM

The F600 has the 6.6 litre Ford. The 800 has the 7.8 in it. As you say, the bigger one sure would be better, and it has the specs to be a great work rig. If you dont use it all that much, and can live with the 165hp(which can be adjusted up), then the F600 should do you just fine.

navistar45 · 10-24-2009, 08:49 AM

sounds like the 600 is the one to go with[i hate rust], and this could be a expensive issue down the line. chk that auto over with another test drive, likely it's a 545 series allison. [solid unit] anyway it should shift firm and solid, and yep you gotta give it a fair bit of fuel to do so. question; what kinda wheels/tires does it have? this aint a deal breaker, but if it's got split rims on it, do not be supprised if you have issues getting a tire shop to do tire repairs. could give you a bit of haggleing power on the price though!

earthsurfing · 10-25-2009, 08:52 PM

Thanks again for all of your time helping this farmer/ builder into his first dump!

Navistar- I'm not sure if I know what you mean by split rims. Oddly, it did have matching tires for the duallies on the passenger side, but the drivers side rear duallies didn't match each other, nor either of the other sides!

Frankly, that's the least of my concerns.

As I may have said: it didn't dump! Seller claims this is just a stuck cable and easy fix. I'm inclined to believe him, but if its such an easy fix- why would you try to sell a dump truck that doesn't dump??

(Seller owns a tractor dealership, and seems to have dozens of random trucks and other vehicles on this lot that he scored at auctions, in trades, or whatever... This old truck doesn't seem like its worth his time.)

Also- no glow plugs or block heater... ?

Also, I guess, normal?

But my truck, tractor, and car all have glow plugs- I guess I though you needed them- especially in Vermont!

And lastly, seemed to be leaking fluid from a hose in the front. ATF, maybe? But not from the regular ATF resevoir. There were more resevoirs than I could make sense of- but it didn't seem to be power steering.

I won't have time to get back to the truck this week, but I'm pretty sure its not going anywhere, and hopefully next week or weekend I can get back down there and get it up to speed on the open road and feel it shift.

I don't think I'll be going back to see the F800. even with the bigger truck, and only 29k, I think its just too rusty. Also an air leak.

Anyway.. I thought I might have my mind made up after the weekend... But I want see this baby dump before I drop a few months pay!

Thanks again.

navistar45 · 10-26-2009, 04:19 PM

nope, no glow plugs or intake heaters on the ford engines. never even seen block heaters on them down on my end of the country. to be honest the cummins engines in 2 tons down here rarely have intake heaters either. in your parts i would supect a block heater should be standard equipment, and could be easily added. split rims are a 2 piece design, there's a little ring that runs around the outer edge of the wheel, you will know em when you see em. be certain of the trucks capability, drive it a good bit before buying. sometimes it take several mile before a heating issue can show up. chking out that dump issue is a smart idea, could be just a cable , but make certain it isnt a pto or pump issue. be a good idea to see the cylinder, make sure it isnt bad scuffed or bent...