Ford 650/750 Medium DutiesTechnical discussion of the new Ford Super Duty 650 and 750 series trucks with Power Stroke, Cummins, or Caterpillar engines.
My dads custom Ford pickup (Big Red) has a problem and broke down out of town. The drive shaft blew apart at 72 miles and hour and ruined the yolk on the rear end and cracked the allison auto in two basically. So now it needs a new tranny. The tranny was rebuilt not that many miles ago (prob. less than 20k) but I don't know what model it is known as. It is the 4 speed automatic allison and is origionaly out of a 1998 (pretty sure it was a 1998) with a 3208 turbo cat. So, what tranny model is this and will a newer 5 or 6 speed allison auto fit in this ones place?
Thanks.
Thomas
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1989 F-350 crew cab dually 4x4 7.3 IDI, Banks Sidewinder Wastegated Turbo. Rebuilt E4OD with Transcommand. push button start, 5" straight piped dual bullhorn stacks. New body work and paint. Custom diamond plate interior. Custom built front and rear HEAVY DUTY bumpers, Many Many Mods on the way. Just need more money and time. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] fuzzy dice hangin from the mirrior
1990 F-350 Crew Cab SRW 7.3 IDI with ATS turbo. Offroad wheels and tires. E4OD. custom exhaust and turned up pump. New bed and paint.
most likely its a ally model 545. very common tranny, especially in school buses. pretty good unit too. used one around my part of the woods average in the 600.00 range. dont let someone shaft you in to a high dollar replacement, just because it's a allison. depending on the series, and how much newer you go, a 5 or 6 speed will go in it's place. converter will be different however. my opinion, i would only go up to a 5 or 6spd, if i were to gain an od gear. the 4spd is a soilid unit, and much cheaper in every way, verse the 5/6 speed models.
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the fleet; ferds ,02'f350,01'f450.the generals ,82'2500, 82'2500 4x4, 82' blazer, 86' blazer ,93'3500, 96'3500, and a 99' 3500hd with 12 valve cummins power. the goats, 90'd250, 91'd350 4x4, 05'3500. all are diesel powered. a list of bigger stuff, as well as gasser's, got lucky, wife comes from a family that collects junk iron too!
the 545 model does sound very familar. I was leaning toward that after finding one in the truck trader. I will look at the tag on my tranny (if there is one) to make sure but it is 5 hours away right now and I can't pick up my truck until Friday when I can rent a lowboy trailer. Do you know the exact model numbers that will be able to take place of a 545. I like the 4 speed but with the rearend in it now, it tops out at 72 miles per hour and an overdrive gear might be nice. I found a rebuilt 545 for $650.00 but I want to see what the prices would be for the 5 or 6 speed that would work.
Thank you very, very much
Thomas
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1989 F-350 crew cab dually 4x4 7.3 IDI, Banks Sidewinder Wastegated Turbo. Rebuilt E4OD with Transcommand. push button start, 5" straight piped dual bullhorn stacks. New body work and paint. Custom diamond plate interior. Custom built front and rear HEAVY DUTY bumpers, Many Many Mods on the way. Just need more money and time. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] fuzzy dice hangin from the mirrior
1990 F-350 Crew Cab SRW 7.3 IDI with ATS turbo. Offroad wheels and tires. E4OD. custom exhaust and turned up pump. New bed and paint.
It could be an AT545, very common. There should be an ID tag on the side of the case saying what model it is. They are usually an SAE# 3 bellhousing, and there's only a couple other models that use that bell, the 1000 series is one of em.
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commuter: 67 F100,300,offy intake,edel carb,274* cam,header
swapping in a Ford/New Holland 6.6(12 valve). Ford engine in a Ford! 6.6 vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcflwjpRHUQ
Work truck:'94 IH 4900, DTA466 lightly bombed(#0 fuel plate, timing at 22*, 3 clicks tighter gov springs), Allison MT653, Voith retarder, and straight piped
Each transmission is tailored for the rpm range of the particular engine so it would need to be set up for the engine. So a transmission from another vehicle would likely have to be reconfigured, or maybe reuse the valve body from the existing one if that will work.
It sounds like only the case is broken of the existing transmission, or maybe a few more parts. If that is true then perhaps finding a used case from a junker transmission and loading all the guts into it would be a good idea?
On the overdrive idea....there are no overdrive manual control allisons to fit this app. The electronic ones have single and double OD, but are not worth the MAJOR $ to install. Behind a 3208 the choices are MT 640 (early) and MT643 (little more refined) in 4 speed, and MT 650 / 653 the same trans with a granny gear added (about 6" longer). An AT 540 or 545 is the light duty choice, OK for light duty, but has no lockup in the convertor which causes a rubber band effect getting from 40 to 60mph.....seems like the engine is going good but the truck is catching up to it. Call Steve Perry @ United Transmission 951- 538-1195. he is 110% knowledgable and will help you even if you don't buy it from him. He lives Allison everyday.
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Mine: 91 F250 Reg Cab 4x4 5spd 7.3IDI 4.10LS 145,000 miles. Banks Sidewinder 92 D60 F axle w 97 brakes and Powerlock. Lift: about 4" over stock 250. 33x12.50x16.5 Pro Comp MTs Magnaflow 12" muffler. Sees dirt everyday. Used to haul hay, wood, feed cows, check fence.
Hers: 96F250 CCSB 7.3 PSD 4x4 5spd 3.55 LS 190,000 miles. Puchased 7/03, Looked for a 5spd CCSB for a year!Dana 60 front axle, at stock F350 height (for now) Energy Poly bushings, Bilsteins, 305/70/16 Pro Comps on 16x10 Weld Outbacks, AFE Pro7,TYMAR 3x3.5x4 downpipe,TYMAR 5" straightpipe, gutted EBV, IH Non EBV pedistal,New Alliant AC Injectors,(stage 1)Cal reg kit, SBC Con O clutch, permenent clutch bushing fix, AC mod with a different twist, AMP Powersteps with custom brackets and wiring(one of 2 OBS trucks with them according to AMP) Line of Fire. Sees dirt everyday.
My Company pickup: 86 F250 6.9 C6 320,000 miles Co trucks 5 89 to 94 IDI's, plus about 50 more diesels.
Diesel Mechanic 28 yrs
Just got the truck back home and the transmission is broken in about 4 pieces around the case. The tag says it is a MT643. That is probably what I will end up replaceing it with. I was wondering about the MT 650/653 though and are they realy a true 5 speed? garbage_mechanic said it has a granny gear rather than an OD. Is this tranny a better decision over the MT 643? I already need a new drive shaft so I can get it shortend when I'm getting a new one.
Thanks
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1989 F-350 crew cab dually 4x4 7.3 IDI, Banks Sidewinder Wastegated Turbo. Rebuilt E4OD with Transcommand. push button start, 5" straight piped dual bullhorn stacks. New body work and paint. Custom diamond plate interior. Custom built front and rear HEAVY DUTY bumpers, Many Many Mods on the way. Just need more money and time. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] fuzzy dice hangin from the mirrior
1990 F-350 Crew Cab SRW 7.3 IDI with ATS turbo. Offroad wheels and tires. E4OD. custom exhaust and turned up pump. New bed and paint.
The 653 is just a 643 with a granny unit bolted on the back as an afterthought. It does not really shift into and out of granny very gracefully. The ones I have operated the granny was never used not even off road so it is probably a waste of time to seek one out.
Yes a good Allison shop could build a 654 CR for you. It would be custom since the 654's all had the bigger convertors, but it can be built and will have less gap between gears.
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Mine: 91 F250 Reg Cab 4x4 5spd 7.3IDI 4.10LS 145,000 miles. Banks Sidewinder 92 D60 F axle w 97 brakes and Powerlock. Lift: about 4" over stock 250. 33x12.50x16.5 Pro Comp MTs Magnaflow 12" muffler. Sees dirt everyday. Used to haul hay, wood, feed cows, check fence.
Hers: 96F250 CCSB 7.3 PSD 4x4 5spd 3.55 LS 190,000 miles. Puchased 7/03, Looked for a 5spd CCSB for a year!Dana 60 front axle, at stock F350 height (for now) Energy Poly bushings, Bilsteins, 305/70/16 Pro Comps on 16x10 Weld Outbacks, AFE Pro7,TYMAR 3x3.5x4 downpipe,TYMAR 5" straightpipe, gutted EBV, IH Non EBV pedistal,New Alliant AC Injectors,(stage 1)Cal reg kit, SBC Con O clutch, permenent clutch bushing fix, AC mod with a different twist, AMP Powersteps with custom brackets and wiring(one of 2 OBS trucks with them according to AMP) Line of Fire. Sees dirt everyday.
My Company pickup: 86 F250 6.9 C6 320,000 miles Co trucks 5 89 to 94 IDI's, plus about 50 more diesels.
Diesel Mechanic 28 yrs
What is a 654, I never seen one. Is it a true progressive 1-2-3-4-5, and I assume still direct?
To be honest with you I actually liked the old 600/700 series 4 speeds better than the World series 5/6 speeds. The 4 speeds didn't have so many close gears to choose from, therefore you could hold a particular gear with your foot much better than the always hunting World series.
The 654 CR was mostly used in the refuse industry to save $ on municipal bids. It is a 653 modified with a bigger 754 convertor and it does have progressive use of all 5 gears. It works pretty good in that department. However since it was usually put behind engines such as the PT240 (855 Cummins 240hp) and the L10 Cummins it was known as the one year tranny. It is ok with lighter loads etc with the big engines but we are usually running 52,000 gvw.
To run one behind any of the smaller motors such as the 3208, a good allison builder can crossbreed the two and come up with a 654 with the right convertor. It was never built from the factory but it can be done and works super. It has to have the valve body and governor set up for the higher rpm too, most of the bigger motors were 2100 rpm, not he 2800 ofthe 3208. It is still direct. Ever runinto a MT754CR? Same shifting strategy as opposed to the 740 4speed or the 750 4 + 1.
BTW,there is a very rare version of the AT545 with a lock up convertor that is little known either.
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Mine: 91 F250 Reg Cab 4x4 5spd 7.3IDI 4.10LS 145,000 miles. Banks Sidewinder 92 D60 F axle w 97 brakes and Powerlock. Lift: about 4" over stock 250. 33x12.50x16.5 Pro Comp MTs Magnaflow 12" muffler. Sees dirt everyday. Used to haul hay, wood, feed cows, check fence.
Hers: 96F250 CCSB 7.3 PSD 4x4 5spd 3.55 LS 190,000 miles. Puchased 7/03, Looked for a 5spd CCSB for a year!Dana 60 front axle, at stock F350 height (for now) Energy Poly bushings, Bilsteins, 305/70/16 Pro Comps on 16x10 Weld Outbacks, AFE Pro7,TYMAR 3x3.5x4 downpipe,TYMAR 5" straightpipe, gutted EBV, IH Non EBV pedistal,New Alliant AC Injectors,(stage 1)Cal reg kit, SBC Con O clutch, permenent clutch bushing fix, AC mod with a different twist, AMP Powersteps with custom brackets and wiring(one of 2 OBS trucks with them according to AMP) Line of Fire. Sees dirt everyday.
My Company pickup: 86 F250 6.9 C6 320,000 miles Co trucks 5 89 to 94 IDI's, plus about 50 more diesels.
Diesel Mechanic 28 yrs
Brain always works but the fingers don't. To many years of punding on things... I meant HT
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Mine: 91 F250 Reg Cab 4x4 5spd 7.3IDI 4.10LS 145,000 miles. Banks Sidewinder 92 D60 F axle w 97 brakes and Powerlock. Lift: about 4" over stock 250. 33x12.50x16.5 Pro Comp MTs Magnaflow 12" muffler. Sees dirt everyday. Used to haul hay, wood, feed cows, check fence.
Hers: 96F250 CCSB 7.3 PSD 4x4 5spd 3.55 LS 190,000 miles. Puchased 7/03, Looked for a 5spd CCSB for a year!Dana 60 front axle, at stock F350 height (for now) Energy Poly bushings, Bilsteins, 305/70/16 Pro Comps on 16x10 Weld Outbacks, AFE Pro7,TYMAR 3x3.5x4 downpipe,TYMAR 5" straightpipe, gutted EBV, IH Non EBV pedistal,New Alliant AC Injectors,(stage 1)Cal reg kit, SBC Con O clutch, permenent clutch bushing fix, AC mod with a different twist, AMP Powersteps with custom brackets and wiring(one of 2 OBS trucks with them according to AMP) Line of Fire. Sees dirt everyday.
My Company pickup: 86 F250 6.9 C6 320,000 miles Co trucks 5 89 to 94 IDI's, plus about 50 more diesels.
Diesel Mechanic 28 yrs
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