Insurance - Diesel Forum

F-650 · 06-07-2009, 10:52 AM

Well I finally did it. I got a 2006 F-650. Its all yellow, playstation, kicker subs, 200gal fuel capacity, custom leather seats, air suspension and air brakes. I will take delivery in about a week.

Ans so starts my delema. In Ontario Canada when you have air brakes your need a Z liscence and over 25000LBS you need a D. These cause all kinds of extra work and yearly fees to big brother. Is there anybody here that knows of a loop hole that I can use to get around some or all of this red tape? Maybe something like 'registered for personal use' and its not required. I not I will need to get my air brake ticket not matter what.

Thanks for helping the new guy.

Josh

F-650 · 06-15-2009, 06:42 PM

are there no thoughts on the subject? Was hoping there is something like in California that states if it says 'not for hire' it can get registered as personal.

bigjimcruising · 06-16-2009, 07:42 PM

Nope, nothing like that in commie Kalifornia. About the only hope here you would have would be to permanently attach a camper and re-register it as an RV (housecar). I'm not sure if that would work on that particular truck but off hand I think it would. Maybe you have something like that up there?

I think the code here in CA to define an RV is Health and Safety Code 18010. (I think, hey I'm not getting any younger!) This tells you what qualifies to make it an RV.

6X4Cowboy · 08-21-2009, 03:07 AM

Yeah nothing like that in California. I had a 2003 F550 SD dually pickup. The insurance alone was ridiculous.

Fly YOW · 09-02-2009, 09:38 AM

The Ontario personal use exception to cover pickups is good to 3500 kg. I think there may be an extension to this to cover RVs (for example, converted busses) of higher weight.

Your plan to get a D licence may not cover you for what you want to tow. The D has the same 4500 kg / 10000 lb limit on trailer weight as the G and every other class except the A. There is a new "restricted A" that doesn't require the full procecss but limits you to trailers similar to the one you took the test on. I don't know much about this one. There is also some kind of exemption for RV trailers. Horse trailers with living quarters are not supposed to qualify as an RV. As a result, you need an A licence to tow a 30' fifth wheel flatbed trailer weighing 15000 lb, but a house trailer of same weight and hitch configuration (and towing dynamics) can be towed on a G licence. This seems stupid to me but is how I understand the rules.

Another thing to watch is CVOR registration. I understand it is required on commercial vehicles registered over 4500 kg. Another gotcha comes from the requirement to include the trailer weight (for other than RV?) in the registered gross weight of the truck for licencing if the trailer has over 3000? kg on its wheels. The problem with CVOR comes from the records required and the need to keep hours of service logs that in theory include all vehicles driven for operators that require CVOR. So, if you drive for CVOR operator for a living and have a personal vehicle that requires CVOR, your personal driving time may count against your available work driving time. There is an exception to allow you to drive a CVOR vehicle home to take your rest period, but....

I don't have to pay more for my B licence (except for the medicals) than a G, but the weight related vehicle licencing starts to add up.

Z endorsement is required for air brakes, I don't think there is an exception for RVs.

I've never found a simple, clear guide to all of the rules about driver and vehicle licencing in Ontario. There's some info on the MTO website, other bits on the drivetest.ca website and you may need to talk with MTO vehicle enforcement to find out more. Some police may know enough to be able to help you, but I wouldn't expect all of them to have a full grip on it.

On edit: The restricted A seems to apply if you show up for the road test in anything less than a manual transmission tractor with air brakes on both tractor and trailer and the trailer is anything less than 45 feet long. The restriction seems to be that you can't tow double trailers or air brake trailers. I don't know if having a resticted A with Z endorsement would get around the air brake restriction.

QuoteWarz Insurance · 02-03-2010, 08:08 PM

Insurance for these big trucks is never going to be cheap, but you can get great rates if you don't go with one of the real big companies that advertise on TV. Some of the small regional carriers we have access to actually give great rates on these trucks and offer outstanding claim service.

alexb · 02-05-2010, 01:27 PM

There is no way to get out of the Z license requirements if it has air brakes. But, getting a Z license is also very easy, and some truck driving schools do it for 100 bucks. Depending on what you do with the vehicle, you can register it at under 11,000kg and drive it with a G and a Z. But, if you go over that (registered) weight and the MTO spot checks you, you're in for a world of hurt!

QuoteWarz Insurance · 02-06-2010, 03:42 PM

The last thing you want to do is get in trouble if they check you. It is not going to be pleasent.