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Ford 650/750 Medium Duties Technical discussion of the new Ford Super Duty 650 and 750 series trucks with Power Stroke, Cummins, or Caterpillar engines.

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Old 06-20-2000, 11:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Hello everyone.

I have been following the forums here for quite some time and have learned a great deal about alot of things. This is by far the best site for information pertaining to Ford trucks!

But this particular forum seems to have little traffic. Maybe I can get something started here. As my signature shows, I have an F-250 and pull a 31' fiver. Per Smokey's analysis, I am over the GVWR of the truck by about 500 lbs. I have added air springs which helped the ride quality dramatically but, without planning a little ahead of time, braking is not very good. I can get her "woed down" in a hurry if I need to but not without smoking the front brakes. Yes, I use a brake controller and set it quite high when going through the Sierras. I just don't like being on the extreme edge of control.

So I have been looking into medium-duty trucks to not only make me legal and within the GVWR, but also to gain improved braking power and overall control. With a baby due in August and many trips into California over the Sierras, safety is very important to me.

I have found several resources on RV towing conversions for the International and Freightliner trucks but very little for the F-650, with the exception of the SuperCrewzer (awesome looking!!). Does anyone know of some resources for conversion of these incredible trucks? I'm looking specifically for a crew cab but any information is gladly accepted.

Mark

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Old 06-20-2000, 11:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

most of the sales literature is available online @ www.meadowlandford.com
dont expect much from dealers . . .they know less than you do.

Sean
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Old 06-21-2000, 08:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Do as Vancouver BC suggested and/or look at CMD1's truck that he just completed. Be sure to look at all of his photos.

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Old 06-22-2000, 09:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Thanks for the info. I posted before CMD1 did so I didn't see his pics until a day later. He did a very nice job. I just might have to give him a call.

CMD1: What is the ride like on your 650? Do you over air ride suspension?

Mark
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Old 06-22-2000, 12:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Speakinng of tow vehicles, Charles' 650 is a beauty. But I did see the ultimate 750 "Hauler" yesterday. It was on I -90 in Albany NY. This thing was a red Supercab 750, long wheel base, with a 19.5" tag axle. It was pulling a tandem axle car hauler (empty) set up as a "stinger"- just like the big boys use. I would guess the trailer was a five car and while the truck did not have an overhead rack, it was set up to carry a car on the extended bed. In terms of door identification, it had the old Ford high performance logo, the Thunderbird with twin racing flags and the numbers "460" in the id section where the originals had "390-406-or 427" Could not identify the state of origin because he pulled off into a rest area as I caught up with him. Had I known it was such an unusual combo I would have pulled off but I thought i was following a "plain Jane". Like I said, this was the ultimate Super Duty I have seen so far- not plush like the one Charles has built but a truck that could make some money.
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Old 06-22-2000, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

CrewChief, I don't know what the GVW of your trailer is, if you plan on a bigger trailer, or the size of your family, so I'll make some assumptions.

1) The family is/will be more then 3.
2) You will be upgrading to a bigger trailer down the road.
3) Safety is an issue.

Options:

1) F450/550. By the time you put a bed on it, dress it out, and smooth out the ride you're looking at $40K. Can tow a 16-18K 5ver, but brakes (no exhaust brake) and transmission (not enough gears) may be problem areas for towing. Would be comfortable when running to the store with though!

2) Cabovers. Imports have been the most popular, Bering and Nissan UD to name a few. They typically can only seat three unless you have a sleeper/crew cab mod done. Add air ride, bed, storage boxes and you're looking at $40K - $50K. You should look at an air ride hitch starting with these trucks (class 5-6). They can tow an 18-20K 5ver. 200-230 HP and 490-520 lbs. torque are norm. For towing, manual 6 speeds are your only option, until the new Allison T2000/2400 becoming available. Braking is excellent, exhaust brake and air over hydraulic are typical. Turning radius is also excellent. Wheelbase and overall length are similar to the F450/F550 extended or crew cab.

3) Other medium duties, i.e., Freightliner, International, etc. Can be ordered with extend, crew, or customized cab. Up to 300HP and 800lbs torque can be had, but it will cost you. Allison, auto-shift, or 6-9 speeds are the norm. With air ride, bed, storage boxes, you're looking at $60-80K. Need to watch the GVW or it will require a CDL license. Air brakes require a driver certification. Tow capacity generally exceeds any RV application. Amenities are abundant. Generally not something you’d feel comfortable driving to the store, because they're big!
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Old 06-22-2000, 04:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Thanks for the suggestions Randy Rob.

I have finally recieved some brochures on the Freightliner and International RV tow vehicle conversions. The Freightliner conversion looks the nicest so far utilizing the FL60 or 70. The companies competing for my business are (oddly enough) Crew Chief and Ventures Unlimited. I don't have the info with me right now but I will post some links when I get the info (if anyone is interested).

I still am having difficulty getting info on 650 conversions. I'm looking for something like the SuperCrewzer. Maybe there is just not enough demand for it yet. I heard rumor that the SuperCrewzer was actually going to be made. Can anyone confirm this?

Mark

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Old 06-22-2000, 11:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Supercrewzer conversions . . . ya . .we could do it at work . . . we have stretched a variety of cabs . . .

We build firetrucks and other custom stuff . . .most of the custom stuff was intended for or ended up in either oil refineries OR overseas in places like kuwait and Guam and SaiPan etc . . . we have built some serious rigs . .

Sean
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[This message has been edited by Vancouver BC (edited 06-23-2000).]
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Old 06-23-2000, 11:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Vancouver BC,

Can you do something like this with the F-650?
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Ca...SantaCruz.html

Or this?
http://crewchief.com/runabout.html

Or maybe this?
http://southwestfleet.com/super_crewzer.html

Mark

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Old 06-25-2000, 01:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

Yes

But . . . we arent a production shop . . our reputation is built on custom stuff tailor made to suit customer / use or to fulfill a desire to have a one of a kind truck. The largest multiple order we have done is 14 identical aerials . . . each one cost about $600,000.00 US.

As far as a tow body . . I am designing one for the owner of the company . . but it is designed to "roll off" leaving just the compartments ahead of the rear wheels. Then . . . other bodies will be built for it . . . to suit various needs the owner has for the truck . . . we are just waiting for the new International body to come out on the market . . . owner HATES Freightliners . . . mind you . . the way they fall apart . . . I dont blame him.

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Old 07-03-2000, 09:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

&gt;&gt;358,000 and still going strong. not"falling apart" here

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Old 07-07-2000, 11:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

CrewChief,
I do add air ride suspension, and air ride leather seats. I am working on "ping" air tanks right now to further smooth out the rear air ride while running empty.
I just posted some new photos, I am ordering a 2000 F750 with 250/660 Cat this month to try one of those out. http://www.hometown.aol.com/f650man/index7.html
Charles

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Old 07-08-2000, 04:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vancouver BC:
Yes

But . . . we arent a production shop . . our reputation is built on custom stuff tailor made to suit customer / use or to fulfill a desire to have a one of a kind truck. The largest multiple order we have done is 14 identical aerials . . . each one cost about $600,000.00 US.

As far as a tow body . . I am designing one for the owner of the company . . but it is designed to "roll off" leaving just the compartments ahead of the rear wheels. Then . . . other bodies will be built for it . . . to suit various needs the owner has for the truck . . . we are just waiting for the new International body to come out on the market . . . owner HATES Freightliners . . . mind you . . the way they fall apart . . . I dont blame him.

Sean
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So just when will my FL50 start going to pieces on me? Any warnings? Or does it just disinegrate?
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Old 07-09-2000, 05:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

We see a lot of problems with loose interior trim . . . wiper mechanisms that fail . . door latches that fail . . . hood hinges . . . air horn lines that are too short from factory and snap when hood is opened a few times . . .

all little things . . . and the FL's arent alone in this regard . . . we do sell more FL's as firetrucks than IH . . .mainly cuz the FL is a Beauty Queen compared to the IH . . .

We currently have been waiting over a month overdue for a FL70 that has auto trans probs . . . Allison blames FL . . FL blames Allison . . . joyous .
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Old 07-12-2000, 04:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Medium duty for towing fifth wheel

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vancouver BC:
We see a lot of problems with loose interior trim . . . wiper mechanisms that fail . . door latches that fail . . . hood hinges . . . air horn lines that are too short from factory and snap when hood is opened a few times . . .

all little things . . . and the FL's arent alone in this regard . . . we do sell more FL's as firetrucks than IH . . .mainly cuz the FL is a Beauty Queen compared to the IH . . .

We currently have been waiting over a month overdue for a FL70 that has auto trans probs . . . Allison blames FL . . FL blames Allison . . . joyous .
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OOOHHHH! Cosmetic stuff! Well I could care less if some little accessary failed in my truck. As long as it hauls my load and gets me home.

Did not have any of those problems with my young truck, and do not recall the hood hinges looking as if they can break.

I guess their is even brand loyalty amongst the big boys, with big toys?

That tranny problem sounds like lots of fun.
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