6.0 X versus Suburban....not a flame war - Diesel Forum

billindenver · 05-16-2004, 11:55 PM

I'm really on the fence here, so thought I would ask for some opinions. In a couple weeks I'll be buying one or the other...trying to decide which. I am sure some of you have had both Suburban's and Excursions so would ask for a comparison. I hope this doesn't bring out the GM versus Ford debate. Test drives really don't do a vehicle justice, and I would value some experience.

The X is more money, but has more room (as a General Contractor having more room is never a bad thing). I also tow a race car 5 or 6 times a year (5k lbs so either truck will handle it). Gas mileage appears to be a toss up, some X's do very well, others seem not to for reasons unknown. The GM is less money, but the diesel seems to hold its value better. On the other hand, I can go to the dealer and take my pick of suburbans....finding a diesel X isn't so easy. The 6.0 seems from what I'm reading here to be somewhat bug prone, while the GM has been out for years and seems pretty bulletproof.

Anyway, opinions and comparisons would be greatly appreciated. It's a tough call. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Bill

oldscuts · 05-17-2004, 12:44 AM

I had a 1/2 ton 4x4 5.7 burb before my X. Obviously the diesel has waaaay more power than that little 5.7 (turning 35 inch tires too). But as far as towing...I know that my burb was only a 1/2 ton, but the X just feels better when towing. I know this isnt much to go on, but maybe it'll help a little. Ford did screw up the X suspension a bit (needs better shocks, rear sway bar (new X's come with one), more front suspension travel), and it requires some tweaking to get it right, where the burb was great right from the start.
But just to confuse you a little more...if Chevy put the Duramax in a 3/4 ton burb tomorrow, my X would be gone the same day. I will never buy the 8.1 burb, the only thing you gain with it is a high gas bill.
My suggestion is don't be scared on the 6.0, I have had only one small problem (check engine light), otherwise it has been great for now almost 20K. My fuel mileage is 13.5 around town wife drivin and 17+ freeway me drivin.

jschira · 05-17-2004, 07:08 AM

Are you comparing the price of a 6.0 X to a gasser Burb?

If a gasser is OK with you, why not look at a 2005 X with the new and improved V-10 gasser? Price should be closer to the Burb and bigger rebates from Ford too. Plus, in 2005, the V-10 gets the TorqShift.

The 6.0 will get at least 4-5 mpgs better than the Burb and has an 8 gallon bigger tank.

Trailer tow mirrors on the Burb are pretty cheesy too.

The ride on the Burb is probably a little softer. You can get StabiliTrak and side air bags on the Burb too.

jschira · 05-17-2004, 07:11 AM

Are you comparing the price of a 6.0 X to a gasser Burb?

If a gasser is OK with you, why not look at a 2005 X with the new and improved V-10 gasser? Price should be closer to the Burb and bigger rebates from Ford too. Plus, in 2005, the V-10 gets the TorqShift.

The 6.0 will get at least 4-5 mpgs better than the Burb and has an 8 gallon bigger tank.

Trailer tow mirrors on the Burb are pretty cheesy too.

The ride on the Burb is probably a little softer. You can get StabiliTrak and side air bags on the Burb too.

My big issue with Ford right now is customer service. It's lousy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img]

I am fairly well pissed off at Ford right now and would not recommend any Ford to anyone. Ford doesn't deserve the business. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

jogiba · 05-17-2004, 08:56 AM

Since I tow a 41 ft TT the diesel Excursion with 5 speed AT ,44 gallon tank and 137" wb was a no brainer. If I did not tow or wanted a diesel I would have purchased a Suburban with Quadrasteer.

jschira · 05-17-2004, 09:23 AM

The GM Supplier rebate on Suburbans in $5400 right now versus $2000 on 6.0 X's. Of course, you need to also add the extra $$ for the 6.0 option.

You gotta need a diesel really bad to pay that kind of premium for it.

That's one of the reason I bought my 7.3. No rebates on the 6.0. The 7.3 had the same rebate as the V-10, so I only paid a $4000 premium, which was bad enough. The main reason that I was willing to pay the extra was because I knew that I will get most of it back at trade-in time.

So far, my guess has been right on. Trade-in value for a 2003 7.3 is the same as a 6.0, so the extra $3000-$4000 that I would have had to pay to get the 6.0 is worth $0 now.

jejb · 05-17-2004, 10:18 AM

I owned 3 'burbs before getting my Excursion. The last one was a 99 3/4 ton 4x4 with a 454. Great truck and great hauler right out of the box. As has been pointed out before, GM has an advantage because they offer both the 1/2 and 3/4 ton versions. So if you order a 3/4 ton, you get a real truck suspension. Since Ford only has one version, they basically make a 1/2 ton out of it. So it's suspension is not great for towing out of the box. It can be fixed but you really shouldn't have to.

Otherwise, the chassis, body, interior, etc held up well in both trucks (I only have 10k on the Ex so the jury is still out a bit on that one). Both are nice trucks and go down the road straight. The GM has a more refined and luxurious interior at the same trim level but the Ford is not that far behind in most areas.

My 6.0 is one of the bad ones so I'm trying to get Ford to buy it back right now. When it's running right, it's a very good hauler. It'd be really hard to go back to gas. As someone else said, if GM put the dmax in a 'burb, I'd be there.

drchris1024 · 05-17-2004, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As someone else said, if GM put the dmax in a 'burb, I'd be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto. Also my wife noticed this. My X has a tighter turning radius than our 'Burb does. For Sale by the way '95 Burb 4x4 k1500 100K 35" yokohamas and plenty more extras.

MGX · 05-17-2004, 01:09 PM

Well first thing is "Welcome to the Forum"!

I used to own a 94 Suburban C2500 with the 6.5 turbo diesel. I loved that truck and would still be driving it had a kid not run a stop light and totaled it for me. It had 53K on it when I got it and I put 100K on mine and had never had any problems. The weak link in that system though is the injection pump. It is an electronic controlled unit and has a life span of around 125K +/-. Mine did go bad, but it did not leave me stranded and it was under warranty. The last time I checked, you could get a quality rebuilt installed for about $700. Personally, I would have no problems buying a 99 if I could find one I liked, and could get to it fast enough. The good ones get snapped up blindly fast.

As far as after 99, that means no diesel available in Suburbans. That happened for a couple of different reasons. Now, if you are talking Crew Cab, they do have the Duramax, which is made by Isuzu. I have heard nothing but good about that engine, but to be fair I have not explored it much either as I, like you, was more interested in the Suburban. However, I was not interested in a gas version and have no experience with the Suburban after that (I did own a 86 gasser which was OK). There is a web site dedicated to the diesel engines. Do a search for '6.5 dieselpage'. That site like this one discusses the pros and cons of the trucks and engines. Now the reasons (that I have heard) that there is no diesel is that 1] it won't fit under the hood and 2] there is a supply problem getting enough engines for both the Suburban and pick-ups. There is a rumor that they will bring it back in 06 or 07, maybe.

So that brings us to the Excursion. I bought mine in March with 134K on it. The milage didn't bother me because it was a diesel. The interior is very similar to that of the Suburban I owned. The X does weigh nearly a ton more so you will notice a few differences in how it feels and behaves. In my opinion it is quite clear that the X is a great idea that is poorly executed by Ford. For example; the ball joints are weak and will need to be replaced, the brakes are also weak, the suspension could be tighter. The transmission seems to be a 50/50 proposition from what I have read hear. Some have had problems early and some have not. (I have not, and in talking to the previous owner he had no problems as well) There are several things that can be done to the truck to make it better and more reliable, but the same is also true of the Suburban. But I still like my X a lot. Admitedly there are weaknesses in everything. And lets not forget the importance of proper maintenance. You also have to be careful in how you interpret what you read in such forums in that those of us who participate are a little neurotic/obsesive about our trucks (and proud of it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Hope that is of some use. If you would like, send me a personal message and we can talk more.

86GLHS · 05-17-2004, 01:31 PM

Since Ford only has one version, they basically make a 1/2 ton out of it. So it's suspension is not great for towing out of the box. It can be fixed but you really shouldn't have to.

I think you missed something here. Last time I looked under the Excursion it looked a lot like the F250 Super Duty. Pretty sure the Excursion is based off the Super Duty line while the Expediton is based off the F150 line. The Excursion is rated to tow 11,000 pounds isn't it?

The Excursion was bought with 104K and now has 114K and it's only had a CPS replaced, still has the original tranny too. The ride is decent but what do you expect for leaf springs on all four corners.

The Allison tranny will not fit in the burb as of now. Talks have been either a different tranny or a smaller Isuzu motor to use in the burb. 2006 will be the soonest.

FamilyRide · 05-17-2004, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since Ford only has one version, they basically make a 1/2 ton out of it. So it's suspension is not great for towing out of the box. It can be fixed but you really shouldn't have to.

I think you missed something here. Last time I looked under the Excursion it looked a lot like the F250 Super Duty. Pretty sure the Excursion is based off the Super Duty line while the Expediton is based off the F150 line. The Excursion is rated to tow 11,000 pounds isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what he means is that the Excursion is equipped with weak springs basicly making is "function" as a 1/2 ton...so to speak.

Mine tow's great but I only tow about 7500# although it could be better. The springs, front and rear, could be heavier and the shocks could be vavled better as well. Mine is fine and I don't have any sway isues at all, but I do get that "squishy" vertical action on roads that have dips etc. when loaded. I'd like to get rid of that "squishy" feel which would require new front springs or a leveling kit to give it appropriate travel, and new shocks along with rear air bags which I htink would be the best trade off istead of adding heavier springs in the rear.

jschira · 05-17-2004, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Now the reasons (that I have heard) that there is no diesel is that 1] it won't fit under the hood and 2] there is a supply problem getting enough engines for both the Suburban and pick-ups. There is a rumor that they will bring it back in 06 or 07, maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

A firewall issue, actually.

And yes, so far only rumors and talk, and all of it coming from us, not GM.

You might see a hybrid before you see a diesel in a Burb.

With pickups getting so comfy, the heavy tow market just doesn't need diesel SUV's like it did 10-15 years ago.

EBX · 05-17-2004, 02:14 PM

I looked at both. The burb just seemed cheaper when sitting in it. The X was finished nicer inside. The burb did not have a diesel option. The X is a bit larger inside. The X just looked more agressive.

MGX · 05-17-2004, 02:32 PM

The only hybrid I want to see is the one abandoned on the side of the road disappearing in my rear view mirror! I had one of those things pull out in front of me on the interstate, it was all I could do to shut it down and keep it from becoming a hood ornamate.

jejb · 05-17-2004, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since Ford only has one version, they basically make a 1/2 ton out of it. So it's suspension is not great for towing out of the box. It can be fixed but you really shouldn't have to.

I think you missed something here. Last time I looked under the Excursion it looked a lot like the F250 Super Duty. Pretty sure the Excursion is based off the Super Duty line while the Expediton is based off the F150 line. The Excursion is rated to tow 11,000 pounds isn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what he means is that the Excursion is equipped with weak springs basicly making is "function" as a 1/2 ton...so to speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. It has 3/4ton+ running gear but 1/2 ton-like springs. It's the only 3/4 ton I've hauled my trailer with (I've owned 3 - 3/4 tons pulling the same trailer) that needed help. The motor and drivetrain are bigtime up to the task but suspension is spooky and not stable at interstate speeds. I'd fix it with air shocks or bags but I'm DSBing it right now because of the motor so I'm loath to stick any parts in it at all.