Cummins common rail into an Excursion

[clamgulch]

For those interested in installing a Cummins in an Excursion, there is a very well documented and inspiring conversion on another site:
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...d.php?t=176490

The guy bought a used V-10 for a song, drove it for a year while he gathered parts, then did the swap out in his gravel driveway in November/December. He really did a fine job on it and posted some photos.

V-10 Excursions are cheap, making it pretty easy to justify doing an engine swap...assuming you live outside of a smog testing area. Not sure about those legalities, and they may vary from county to county.

[william_04_X]

hows the progress of your project clam?

[clamgulch]

Still gathering parts. Waiting on a gasket set to reassemble the engine, bought a Dodge wiring harness to go with the Dodge computer I bought, so the engine won't think it's a freightliner. Couldn't find a freightliner (strictly Cummins) computer. I picked up a book of wiring diagrams for year 2000 F-650/F-750 and it looks like there is a lot of wiring similarity between it and my Excursion, so maybe it will help me wire up the engine ECU and the Allison transmission TCM so that the factory gauges work and the ECU and TCM will talk to each other. I also found a link on another site that has all the wiring diagrams for Dodge, so it's going to be like mixing 3 different puzzles together and trying to make one picture that makes sense.

I've still got a lot of things to figure out, so until I do, the wrenching can wait until I at least THINK I have a clear pathway from beginning to end...and the weather warms up and the overtime gets cut back.

Thanks for asking. After seeing that website with the converted excursion, I'm pretty pumped up about it. What a sweet combination.

I think the thing that is most discouraging is the cost of switching to an Allison transmission. By the time I buy the HUGE cooler with 3/4 or 1" lines, beef up the tranny, buy a torque converter, wiring harness, and a 4x4 tail shaft housing along with a direct bolt up transfer case, switching trannys has the potential of costing in excess of $12,000. No joke. I highly doubt I'll spend that much money. Torque converter, cooler and a shift kit maybe. My tranny was remanufactured when I bought it, just not with the super high performance stuff, so if I take it easy, it might last a while, hopefully at least until it's totally inconvenient to deal with.

I noticed on Ebay that there is a guy in Portland, Oregon who is now making a bunch of different do-it-yourself piping kits for installing several different compound turbo combinations. That might be a good option for me and I need to investigate that, otherwise buying a fully made kit that already has turbos in it can easily cost $5k and up, especially if you add in external blow off valves and waste gates, which is actually a good way of doing it because then the setup is tunable.

[william_04_X]

WOW...doesn't sound like you'll be doing this in a gravel driveway..it will be very interesting to watch it progress.can't really wish you luck (not necessary)..hope it goes as smooth as possible..

[rock_doctor]

I read the whole thread. I wonder if he put too much work into it putting in a new computer controlled engine. A nice mechanical injected 5.9 will work very well and no computers to deal with other then the trans and cluster computer. Personally, I think the guy deserves a Nobel Peace prize for the level of work he put into the thing. I rather give it to him then to Al Gore (ack!).

I met a guy in NJ who installed a 90's vintage 12v into an 80's vintage dully Chevy. He said it was an easy transfer and boy did it sound sweet!!! I have to admit those Cummins have an awesome sound.

mark

[clamgulch]

Thanks William, I appreciate your continued interest. Believe it or not, that's encouraging to me. I have a concrete driveway and a single car garage that the Excursion won't begin to fit into, but that's WAY better than doing an engine swap on gravel.

rock_doc- I read the whole thing in one sitting too. It's a great read and very nicely documented. The guy just does outstanding work and his methodical, patient approach is a good example to follow.

I'm sure I'm going to have some driveline length issues because my engine has an SAE#3 housing on the back of it, so the tranny will have to scoot back a ways, and with my luck, I'll probably have to chop a big hole in the floor and fire wall to accomodate it. I'm NOT going to do a body lift because it's 5" too high already and a PITA to climb in and out of despite me being 6'3".

I debated about doing a mechanical 5.9 and nixed it because of my needs for the vehicle- commuting and needing high mileage and towing very heavy. The mechanical versions are basically locked down at one power range vs the HPCR 5.9 you can just reprogram like the 7.3 or 6.0. I'll also have no problem passing smog testing if the need ever arises. I currently live half a block outside "the zone."

[coldair]

nice work on the conversion, please keep us posted as progress continues. was there any reason not to use your BTS behind the cummins




get the amp research folding steps to accomadate your need for a body lift.

[clamgulch]

I posted a response but it has not shown up. Maybe it got firewalled...
The short of it is this- to clarify, the excursion on that other site is NOT my rig. I hope my conversion looks as nice as his when I'm done though.
I'll gladly keep everyone updated with progress whenever that happens. Weather and work schedule as well as the need for some expensive parts (perhaps a suncoast torque converter) have me had me stalled for months, but I'm slowly gathering the goods.
BTS tranny: my 35" tires with 3.73 gears makes the spread between gears too wide for a 3 speed with overdrive. The Allison is a 4 speed with overdrive, and I have the option of going with a double overdrive. May end up switching gears anyway though. From what I've heard, straight 6 engines have a narrower torque band than a V-8, and the gears were too far apart for the 7.3 IMHO.
The Allison is a very expensive option though. It would have been far cheaper to keep the BTS.

Coldair, I'll take your recommendation for the step under advisement when I have extra money to blow. I have to figure out if I'm going to be into a body lift or cutting the tranny hump because of the unusual engine with the rear gear train AND the SAE#3 housing.

[BDS]

Clam, Is the allison you have a 1000? Or something different from a frieghtliner?

I am interested in doing the Cummins CR swap in my wifes EX...But I am looking into a 5R100. I may be able to get a Allison 1000 6 speed for pretty cheap though.


We'll see.
Brent.

[clamgulch]

I bought a 5 speed Allison 1000 freshly remanufactured. The expense for an allison is at the back end when it comes time to hook up a transfer case. My rear housing is for a 2wd, so I have to change that too. Suncoast has one for around $1,200, but then I still have a spine size difference, so another option for me might be a divorced transfer case, or else I need to buy one that fits the allison or somehow adapt my transfer case. Not sure if that last one is possible.

[BDS]

You probably thought of this already but what about a GM tranfercase intead of the Ford one... I don't have the time and money spent like you have spent on this swap...So please except my lack of knowledge suggestions.

I was planning to use a CR Cummins 2003-2004.5 model year with a 5R100 or Allison 1000 6speed. The adaptors are obviously available aftermarket to bolt them all together. Along with the transmission modules to make them shift. As for the transfercase region??? We'll see, I'll probably do whatever you do [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]


I guess being the pioneer for a project Clam isn't fun all the time.

Brent.

[clamgulch]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BDS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You probably thought of this already but what about a GM tranfercase intead of the Ford one... I don't have the time and money spent like you have spent on this swap...So please except my lack of knowledge suggestions.

I was planning to use a CR Cummins 2003-2004.5 model year with a 5R100 or Allison 1000 6speed. The adaptors are obviously available aftermarket to bolt them all together. Along with the transmission modules to make them shift. As for the transfercase region??? We'll see, I'll probably do whatever you do [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]


I guess being the pioneer for a project Clam isn't fun all the time.

Brent. </div></div>
It may not always be fun but it's always expensive.
I'd stay away from the Allison 1000 unless you can pick up a used one with the transfer case attached and includes wiring and Transmission Control Module (TCM), and that's assuming there are adapters to go from the engine you choose to the Allison. The SAE #3 housing is about 7" thick and was used between Cummins / Allison setups in UPS style step vans- but that creates a length problem for drivelines, and I have yet to see if I'm going to have to do a body lift or cut out the tranny hump.

My advice, keep it as simple as possible. Read that entire thread that I posted a link to if you are serious about doing a swap and note that that guy spent a YEAR collecting parts and doing research. I've been at it since the end of last march ('07) and still have to assemble my engine. The rest of the gasket set arrives next weekend. BTW, gasket sets are spendy...obscenely so.

There are currently NO aftermarket modules to interface the cummins with the allison unless I find a Cummins computer, and I've given up and bought a dodge computer. The GMC TCM will probably have to operate as a stand-alone without engine input, and I've heard good and bad rumors on doing that.

I can't tell you about the other tranny options because I haven't investigated them. Simplest solution is get the entire powertrain out of a dodge pickup and have that tranny built by Goerend (spelling ?) Brothers. That's what the guy I linked to did.

[BDS]

Clam, I may be confused but check out THIS link and scoll down...Half the way down is the adaptor plate to bolt a Cummins to a Allison 1000. Then scroll to the bottom of the page and there is transmission moduels for the Allison 1000. The description says "Stand Alone" so I do not know for sure but I figured it meant it is the brain needed to make the Allison 1000 work in transplants like yours and hopefully mine.

I also thought that the TS performance truck was using a Cummins 24v with a p-pump and a Allison 1000.

Brent.

[clamgulch]

Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about the Destroked adapters because I'm not using one because of the SAE #3 housing that came with my engine. I bought an Allison 1000 that fits the SAE #3 which is a different bolt pattern than the Allison 1000's in the pickups. They build good products and I think that is probably the better way to go- at least you won't be cutting the floor up that way.

As far as I know, the stand alone controllers from PCS for the Allison 1000 do not exist. The rumor I heard was that after a couple years of expensive R&D, they gave up. The closest thing available is the ATS "CoPilot" http://www.atsdiesel.com/atswebsite/...GM/CoPilot.asp
However, if you look at the technical data, it appears that it is set up to run ONLY behind a Duramax, therefore it is not a stand alone. Please double check that as I only spent a couple minutes looking. You might want to call them and see if they think you can hook it up to the Cummins ECM. If you do, let me know what they say.
There are some folks around that have tinkered with the Allison TCM and there are witnesses who swear that the trannys run great disconnected from the engine ECM. So it's risky being based on rumor and subjective second hand comments.

[thefermanator]

The last I read on the PCS controller controlling an ALLISON was that it would randomly go into reverse while traveling at highway speeds. The ALLISON uses a very unique shifting method and is very difficult to duplicate.