Excursion...evacuation vehicle of choice

[scubudo]

I have always liked my X...but last week after spending the night in the worst traffic jam the world has ever seen...I love it. Not only was I able to take more with me...but gassers didn't stand a chance of getting anywhere on a single tank of fuel. If only they would have realized that and gotten the hell out of my way.

[POS]

It's funny you posted this. I have an '04 crew cab and my wife has a Sequioa 2wd. During our evacuation, we took both trucks because I wanted to have 4x4 after the hurricane and took hers because it could hold more (we have two kids plus a pile of junk) out of the rain.

Now I'm considering selling the pickup and buying an Ex so that I can have 4x4, everyone in it, and everything out of the rain. Anyone want to buy an '04 KR?

[MikeHathaway]

Better hurry if you want a new one - they're about all gone! And I think there's still a few days left on the Family Plan pricing.

[clamgulch]

For the life of me I cannot understand why people didn't just ignore their "stuff" and just jump in their vehicles 24 hours earlier and just cruise out of town. Call me ignorant, but seeing you poor disaster smitten folks sitting in traffic was proof enough to me that mass evacuation at the last minute doesn't work. I'm glad that in spite of the traffic mess that things went as well as they did and that y'all are back at home, safe and sound looking into a better plan. I'm rethinking my escape plans because of what I saw y'all go through on TV...

In our neck of the woods east of Tacoma, Washington, 27 miles from my house, we have a 14,410' volcano (Mt. Rainier) that is literally rotten to the core and according to geologists, prophets and prognosticators, is overdue for a major collapse- It is capable of creating a wall of mud and rock 60' tall traveling around 40 mph, so that doesn't give any of us the luxury of packing. The bad part is the warning alarm system goes off all the time with false alarms to the point where nobody pays any attention to it anymore. I live on a hill that is supposedly safe from mudflows, but the county and local cities continue to issue thousands of building permits to build in the valley below us where a 60' wall of mud swept through about 300 years ago. Odds are that the next time the mountain collapses, it will go through that valley again which will subsequently kill thousands that are packing or stuck in traffic. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Honestly, that mountain and the propensity for this area to have 9.5 earthquakes that last 5 minutes is the reason I have an excursion and the reason I have beefed it up to just shy of a duce and a half. One such earthquake happened here Jan 1, 1700 and was recorded in Japan with much higher tides than usual. I figure our entire infrastructure will take years to rebuild so I want something that will hold up if and when I have to deal with it, God forbid.

[POS]

Hurricane's give you plenty of time to get packed so that if a Cat 5 whacks your house (we all saw Miss. photos), you can keep some important things. With two kids, we loaded up food, water, clothes, toys, photo albums, and important files. What I didn't know, was that 2.8m of us were going to evacuate on the same day - no city in America has ever tried to move that many people in one day. It was a learning experience for all of us.

As for Washington, I hope that never does pop open. Our Cat 5 gave us warning and even "went away" at the last minute. Yours won't go away. God Bless is right.

[belfert]

It doesn't take 24 hours to pack a few things unless you're renting a semi or something. (Yes, I've heard of people packing up whole houses in other disaster evacs.)

If everyone left 24 hours earlier that would have meant the traffic jams would have been 24 hours earlier. They need to be able to stage the evacuations by neighborhood, city, or county somehow. Of course, how many people would really obey that?

Brian Elfert

[FamilyRide]

A lot of people did get out early but with mandatory evac's coming out2-3 days early, as everyone headed north, everyone hit the majopr artieries at the same, or close to the same time.

My sister and BIL left at 4 PM on Wednesday and because of a bad wreck north of Houston it took them 7.5 hours ot get to our place north of DFW airport, and that included a 1 hour stop for dinner in Hunstville.

Others they and we know left 10-12 hours later only to sit in traffic for as long as 17-20 hours. One person left 1:30 AM Thursday and it took right at 8 hours ot get just over half way to Dallas (about 150 miles). Another 2 left at 9 to 11 AM and one turned around after 17 hours and having gone only 20 miles (turned off at 1960) and the other made it to Hunstville (about 75-80 miles in 18.5 hours).

To phase evac's would work on paper but not in reality. The phased return appearently didn't go so well as many people scattered all over had now idea there was a plan and the ones that did, ignored it. Again, I sent my sister and BIL a dfiffernt way and they got home in 5.5 hours on Sunday leaving in the AM (they planned on going to Austin for a day or 2 until they knew they could get back but Sunday was their day in the plan and things looked good as they got further south). Major HWY's I hear were backed up getting back in.

Trying to go North out of Houston on any normal Friday afternoon is a nightmare to begin with so you cna imagine everyone in that region trying to get out primarily on 2 Interstate HWY's and a couple of state HWY's. I-10 west, I-45 north and SH59 NE and SH290 WNW.

What a mess!!

[scubudo]

I left over 48 hours ahead of the storm, and only 5 hours after the mandatory evacuation for my area was ordered. I wouldn't call that last minute. Sure, if it had been a volcano warning, I wouldn't wait around. Obviously, as you sat around watching us you could not comprehend that the storm was still days away.

[clamgulch]

I sincerely appreciate you folks sharing your experiences with us, because it will help those that are paying attention to be better prepared. All the rest of us in this nation watched in horror with that storm building to a Cat 5 and seeing the confusion that ensued on the road system. I don't know what THE answer is, but I know that instant response is in your best interest. Without having been there but having carefully studied many situations that demand shelter or evacuation, including natural and manmade disasters ranging from nuclear, biological and chemical releases, I want to very respectfully offer some suggestions based on what I have learned (I know, it's a sick hobby).

At a minumum, the highways SHOULD have been opened up for out of town regardless of the normal traffic flow. That would have sped up the evacuation at least 25%, perhaps much more. The only difficulty is getting vehicles onto and off of the wrong side of the road, and the government wasn't smart enough collectively to figure out a way to do it.

I know this is all a touchy subject, but I offer my wisdom out of genuine love and concern for my fellow man and countrymen...especially those on TDS. I absolutely agree that this was the biggest evacuation experiment in the history of the world and there were many lessons learned and many more to ferret out- But the government is usually terribly lax if not outright negligent in communicating those details. Case in point is nuclear civil defense- the budget per person for that in this country has been zero for decades, yet radiation is EASY to avoid even in the midst of Hiroshima type surprises. Yet our government tells us to buy duct tape and plastic when the should be telling you to buy picks and shovels. By the way, in Hiroshima there were people sheltered in earthen blast shelters within 3 blocks of ground zero that survived without a scratch...

First and most importantly, don't wait for someone to take charge on the grand scale to order an evacuation. New Orleans is proof that that approach doesn't work. Take charge yourself and know that every second wasted will increase the odds that you could loose your life.

I realize that 5 hours of prep time out of 48 or more is blistering fast if you are preparing for vacation, but in a genuine announced emergency, it is more than enough to gridlock every street in any city in the world. 5 minutes of response time from the evacuation order would save you hours, and anticipating the problem ahead of the "experts" can save you days and maybe even your lives. For example: if Russia ever starts evacuating Moscow, which would take several days, you better put your pick and shovel to good use, because your government is NOT going to tell you what to expect.

I usually carry 72 hours worth of survival supplies in my truck and in my wifes car as well- a 5 gallon bucket holds everything but water which is the biggest concern. However, a backpacking type water filter lives in each bucket. 3 days without clean water can kill you, but one can live several weeks with zero food, so food in the buckets is minimal- a few energy bars. Plastic ponchos/rain gear, blanket or sleeping bag, a week's worth of prescriptions, an extra pair of reading glasses, a whistle, a knife, antibacterial soap, a back packing towel that rings out nearly dry, a change of clothes, a large box of strike anywhere matches, candles, firstaid kit, a backpacking stove, playing cards, paper tablet, pen, signal mirror, parachute chord, visqueen big enough to create a shelter, sunscreen, antibiotic cream, several rolls of TP, a hand trowel for digging a "cat hole" for sanitation. All of that fits in a 5 gallon pail with a water tight lid. It enables me to jump into my vehicle and be gone in under 5 minutes.

Important papers was mentioned: This is an important point. I suggest purchacing a small "fire safe" and keeping those vital documents locked in it at the ready for immediate evacuation purposes. If your house burns down, the documents will survive that way too! Costco carries them for less than $100 as I recall.

In the case of Texas, evacuation was ordered and may I ask where everyone was supposed to go once they got off the freeway? This is where a family rendesvous (did I spell that correctly?) location is vital. I have 2 picked out and we have been to them so there is no question of where each family member it to go. One is on the coast- constant fresh air and rain water there. The other is underground in an abandoned building. I can also dig in right where I am at because I have educated myself as to what to do for just about any situation that may arise.

I hope that gives you all food for thought. Sitting in traffic is something I CANNOT do because of claustrophobia. I really do loose it in those cattle situations. I urge everyone to get yourselves 5 gallon buckets and keep them stocked and in your cars. Things at home can be replaced, but your lives cannot. Take charge, educate yourselves, and be a good scout: be prepared!

If anyone is interested in specifics in greater detail, let me know and I will pass along more info, but I don't want to belabor a point if nobody is interested-

Respectfully and thankful you were all safe,
clamgulch

[POS]

Yowza - great post. My first reaction is that all that stuff is a bit paranoic, but on the other hand, I clearly think you're a wise man. Some of those things I've handled previously with my family, but the bucket idea isn't a bad one at all. Thanks.

[FamilyRide]

Also keep in mind, in that <3 million people evacuating were people that just evacuated from LA 2 weeks earlier. As well, hotels were booked solid for 200-400 miles in every direction (I was supposed to be in Houston that weekend and my reservation I found out was a ghost).

Public shelters such as Reunion Arena in Dallas, the Convention Center and several smaller shelters ( not to mention all the shelters in Houston) were still in the process of moving people out. My SIsters family had Us to come too, many other people opened there homes to strangers but for my sister to get a hotel for her family would have been in Oklahoma City. Another 3-3.5 hours north on a normal day.

If we didn't have Katrina 2 weeks before and the 10's of thousands of people sheltered in Texas, the evacuation would have been somewhat better. Not perfect, but better.

[clamgulch]

Besides being perfect for carrying water, the bucket makes an excellent floatation device too. If it's bright orange like the ones at Home Despot, it's easy to spot.

Avoid trying to cross moving water unless you have no choice. Hydraulic forces are always much more than people estimate, along with water depth, and getting swept under a submerged object is very common, leading to many needless drownings every year.

A few more things I remembered: a few kitchen size garbage bags, some sort of a small pot to boil water and cook in, maybe a small bottle of hydrogen peroxide and some iodine tablets for water purification. It becomes a temptation to drink bad water after a couple days just to stay alive and that can introduce bugs into your digestive tract that you definitely don't want. My wife has spent the last 2 months getting over that type of bug. In Africa, cronic dysintary is stil a major cause of death. Advil, asprin, sinus tabs, calymine lotion, rubber gloves, dust masks and imodium AD.

If you have an infant, you need to have a can of formula and a few disposable diapers. A bottle of hand sanitizer is a must. Don't forget a container of moistened baby wipes, chapstick, toothbrush, insect repellent (I have DEET- it's nasty but it works). Don't forget the ladies' needs too-

Flashlight (I carry a pinch light on my keychain), road flares (great for starting fires), inflatable pillow, cheap sunglasses, a couple packs of smokes if you are a smoker. All items that are compact.

I know my posts sound paranoid, but it's because I'm just well informed. I'm throwing a lot of information out that applies to MANY different types of bad situations- but the survival supplies are the same regardless. You just never know when you are going to end up in a jam and how long it's going to last. The government yaps about 72 hours as if everything will be under control and pretty much back to normal in that time span. Look at how long Kobe, Japan was out of order after it was flattened by an earthquake. How about New Orleans? Many from that city are going to be living in government camps for 6 months minimum, and most of them said it would never happen to them.

The "experts" say to have 1 gallon of water per person per day available, and that is probably the one item that nearly everyone will skip because of weight and bulk.

I'd like to point out that I did NOT say to bring a gun. They are heavy, easily stolen, and are of little or no value in an emergency situation...unless you are among dangerous wild mammals...of ANY sort.
One other thing to leave behind is booze. It has zero value, causes your pores to open so you loose too much body heat, dulls senses and can end up being the source of fighting between wild mammals. It isn't worth the trouble.

In the initial 3 days you are better off (safer) with your select SMALL group away from others, assuming that nobody is injured. Speaking of injuries, they MUST be treated immediately to avoid infection, which becomes an additional disaster if there isn't medical treatment available. Folks in New Orleans with sores and cuts on their feet and legs have had serious trouble.

Beyond 3 days, teamwork becomes necessary, especially if the weather is particularly nasty. Avoid the mass temporary housing situations because of short tempers and the risk of having what little you have confiscated. If there is an epidemic, get away from the city as fast as you can with your small group or you will be quarantined with little likelyhood of medication for treatment. If that Avian flu virus mutates to where it is communicable between humans, head for the hills for a couple years, because that is how long it will take to develop a vaccine that works. Death rate from that flu will be 55% minimum.

Wherever you end up, ALWAYS insist that everyone buries their waste, no exceptions. That's right, open up that bucket and pull out that trowel and use it.

Now, the Excursion is big enough to live out of for a few days, and as I said, that is one of the reasons that I have mine and why I have beefed it up. There may not be any fuel to go anywhere, but at a minimum it provides a lot of shelter space. There is plenty of room for a five gallon bucket for each of your family members plus some 5 gallon buckets of water. Hopefully, you will never have to use any of the items, but I'd rather we all have that stuff immediately available than sit in a traffic jam waiting for my turn to loot a sporting goods store for basic essentials when the lava is flowing, the wind is blowing, or the water level is on the rise. That just isn't my idea of a good time.

It's the biggest passenger vehicle out there- you have to put something in it, so why not things to keep you and your loved ones alive?

I attempt to tell people that "have ears to hear" how they can live through just about anything for 72 hours or longer without their cell phones and television, and sad to say, most run away screaming that I am "too negative." From what I gather, those who were "sometimes disobedient at the time of Noah" had the same attitude. Has the world returned to the same thinking and behavior as Noah's time? If so, spending hours or days preparing BEFORE disaster strikes is a whole lot more prudent than doing it once the rain (or whatever other disaster) starts.

What I'm saying is, the reason so many people end up dead in a disaster situation is because they choose to be ill prepared and ignorant, and that has been going on for thousands of years...just ask the folks from Pompei.

Today, in spite of all types of warnings, from earthquakes to geology reports, to satellite imagery, to prophets, to dreams, visions, and gut instinct, people still ignore all the earmarks of pending disasters and take risks that end up being really bad decisions. That is exactly what thousands of people that live in the Orting valley below where I live are doing and many are going to die when Mt Rainier collapses. So much for the good deal they got on their houses and land then. To me it's just senseless and easier to simply avoid most of the problems in the first place.

So, am I paranoid? No. I'm not concerned, worried or aggitated because I am prepared. And no, I'm not a gun toting survivalist nutcase either.

Now I'll shut up- I promise.

clamgulch

[JohnBoyII]

NO - I would like a short list of the "necessities"
I think I know and am ready, but it's always good to revisit !

[EXCAV8TER]

Great post and very wise info...I must disagree on your position on weapons though...1. to protect my family from others who DID NOT prepare and to ensure I can get what I need in case I run out! After Katrina I heard one newscaster say that she was told by police as she reported from new orleans...not to drink her bottled water in the open lest it be manhandled away from her...point is people do crazy "stuff" under those circumstances but I'll be damned if they do it to my wife or 4 girls with my .40 or pump shotgun pointed at thier heads...
Tom

My biggest fear with rita was initially they showed it going directly over Austin...that would not really be an issue but north west of here with that kind of rainfall it could've easily overflowed the travis dam and wiped out all of the waterfront properties as well as downtown and so on...The LCRA has done studies and the storm that flooded San Antonio about 7-8 years ago would've had water FIFTEEN FEET flowing over the dam with all floodgates open had it gone north west of lake travis...that is downright damn frightening..

4 days before rita hit we were packed and ready just in case...so again great advice..
Thanks

[scubudo]

Unfortunately, very little of that survival gear would have been of much use on Houston's Beltway 8, where I happened to spend the night trapped in the gridlock. Despite the fact that I packed up many of my most cherrished belongings, I was still wise enough to pack up some food and water...as well as a roll of paper towels to clean up after my three kids (and to use as TP if needed).
I too have reviewed the whole event...and can tell you from 1st hand experience some does and don'ts.
Lessons learned...those vaccuum space-saver bags work better than expected. I was able to fit a whole walk-in closet in about 1/4 of the space behind the 2nd row seatof my Excursion. Unfortunately, it was all for nothing because the meteorologists can't acurately predict the storms path, even 48 hours out...so next time I will wait another day before wrinkling my whole wardrobe.
Yea, I know what you are thinking...I'll get gridlocked during the storm...but the reality is that there were a whole lot of people that evacuated early so that they could spend 20-30 hours going to Beumont and Lake Charles to watch a hurricane.
The other thing is that the grid lock is a big city phenomenon. When I left this island, the roads were wide open. My mistake was to follow the evacuation route into Houston.
Instead of running inland...the next time I'm headed up or down the coast. Within 24 hours, I can be well out of harms way. Then I can reach in my back pocket and grab my survival credit card and check into a hotel. With a range of 800+ miles, there should still be plenty of rooms left wherever I end up.
Things I cannot explain:
Evacuating = 17 hours with me, my 3 kids (5,7&9), as well as 1 cat. Only two bathroom stops (1 being in survival mode while gridlocked on the Westpark Toll road). Believe it or not...the kids never complained.
Return trip = 5 hours, 2 food stops + 2 bathrooms stops. Typical sibling rivalry.
Go figure.