Just got my current issue of Consumer Reports. They love to pick on the Excursion, totally disregarding what the PowerStroke has to offer, but this has less to do with the rag and more with what they reported.
I've got a 2001 4x4 Excursion Limited equipped with the good 'ol 7.3L PowerStroke. I drive in mixed city/highway and get a bonafided, hand calculated 21 MPG which I'm very happy with. Note that my overhead computer is rather optimistic adding up to .3 MPG to the overall figure.
CR tested five different small SUV's touting their fuel economy. And without further ado, here's the results...
They said the Jeep diesel was basically a dog, poor MPG, poor performance and noisy. Plus a high price tag. The "new diesels" were supposed to fix most of these problems.
And I'm not about to go title to title with a Honda CR-V for the best MPG. But it's pretty amazing that a 4 ton truck can hold it's own with something that weighs half as much! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
My '01 4WD LTD has the gas V10. Yeah, I know ... What am I doing at this website? I looked at the diesels 'cause I like them a lot, but then I crunched some numbers. Taking into account the premium added to the purchase price, the fact that diesel runs a little higher per gallon locally than gasoline, and EXCLUDING higher maintenance costs for a diesel, I would have to drive the diesel 175K to 192K BEFORE I would realize any actual savings (that's how many miles of better MPG it would take to pay for the diesel). I'm long tired of a truck by the time I've put 150K miles on her, and that's another reason the "diesel lasts longer" argument is a moot point with me. So the diesel lost out.
On the other hand, I am quite pleased with my "typical" V10 MPG (11 city, 15-16 highway, 11.3 towing 5600#). My X averages 10% to 20% better than the '87 gas F350 crew-cab I had ... which, BTW, I sold with 192K miles on her, and never had to remove the valve covers ... never gave me a lick of trouble (bought her used at 43K miles ... US Navy surplus). Her downside was no matter how I drove, she never got better than 10 MPG ... and she weighed 3,000# less than the X.
I'm glad you're happy with your MPG. 21 MPG IS impressive.
The increased resale value of the diesel more than compensated for the additional cost. That cinched it for me.
That's pretty good mileage for a V10. I know a couple of gas X owners that would love to get that good of a mileage.
The reputation of the engine was important to me. I know a lot of hard driven T444E's (same basic engine) with over 400,000 miles on them in service at UPS and FedEx. I know of one city inter-city bus in Atlanta had over 750,000 miles on it with no major work done. That was the most extreme.
So I try and install add-ons to prolong the life of the truck (like a coolant filter) and maintain it the same way a careful fleet owner would. I bought the truck with the intention of putting well over 200,000 miles on the odo, maybe even 400,000 before the wheels fall off.
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My '01 4WD LTD has the gas V10.
On the other hand, I am quite pleased with my "typical" V10 MPG (11 city, 15-16 highway, 11.3 towing 5600#).
I'm glad you're happy with your MPG. 21 MPG IS impressive.
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15-16mpg from a V10, wow. I've got a friend about to buy a V10 X that will be happy to hear that...and my neighbor, with a V10 F250 crew cab shorty, bone stock, gets 10. And she drives like a grandma. I'd better tell her she's getting 15.
In the world I live in, (Utah) the V10's get around 11, maybe 13mpg and if I'm gonna do gas, I'd rather do a burb. The psd's get 14-16mpg. I test drove a lot of eXcursions, and spent a lot of money to figure out what the mileage was: topping off the tank, driving 100 miles, and re-topping the tank. 21? not around here. Some psd pickups see 18mpg. I'm sure that I could have done better mpg with some of those tanks, but there's more to life than driving like grandma.
I've never really understood the "I have to drive xxx,xxx miles to break even" line of thought.
If I drive over 1200 miles a month, which I do, I save enough at the pump each month to make up the difference in payment between a gasser and a psd, assuming a $5K difference. Diesel here is the same as regular unleaded. So if that amount is around $90-$100, and you drive 1200 miles a month, you're figuring 66K miles "before" you break even...but if you financed it, then you are breaking even every month.
Plus, I'll get some resale back from the psd, but nothing for the gas I burned.
mpg is nice, but the main reason I bought the psd was for towing.
I will only see that when in the country doing 40 mph with no traffic lights for 20 miles.Unless I have a dog of a PSD,I find many of the numbers on this website unrealistic.I don't mean to say you are lying.I get an avg. for 13 in suburban driving which is like city for most Americans.My overhead is dead on acurate.On the hwy. I get 18 mpg driving 60-65 mph. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] Maybe its just me.
Back in May I traded my 5 year old V10 Ex with 90k on a 03 7.3L. I agree with your rationale, but as with anything you crunch the numbers to the optimum. I used to do the same thing. Overall I'm happy with the change. My old V10 gave me no trouble. I got 10 in pure stop and go and 12-14 on long trips averaging around 75 mph.
So far with the PSD the same driving I'm getting 15/17.5 mpg. On the highway if I keep it at 70 mph it's around 18.5 mpg. I look more at how many miles per about 3/4 of a tank. I like getting 650 miles versus 400 miles on trips. Most impressed with city mileage.
If I drove the back roads around 60-65 mph, 21 mpg be attainable with the PSD, cause when I did that with the old V10 I could get 16 mpg.
It definitly isn't just you. I get 11-13 in the city mostly due to my right foot, but when I'm trying hard I can get 16-17. Highway, I've had my 2000 X with no mods other than a air filter assembly up to about 20-21 but thats keeping under 80mph.
I just went over the 100K mark so the chip and exhaust mods are coming. We'll see what they do for the mpg.
Joe, I commute roughly 90-100 miles a day, driving from Lebanon, TN to Nashville, TN then to Brentwood, TN via I-40W->I-440W->I-65S, where I drop other half off at work, and then on to downtown Nashville via I-65N. The return trip is from downtown Nashville to Brentwood via I-65S, then back up to Nashville I-65N->I-440E and back out to Lebanon via I-40E. By no means the suburbs. BTW, in 2002 Nashville was ranked 28th in the nation for traffic congestion.
As you can see, I track my fuel use pretty close and it has been pretty consistant.
The majority of mileage gains you will see come from how you drive. A good instant indicator is your overhead computer. Though mine is a couple tenths optimistic, it's still a good indicator of how I'm doing as I go along.
For example, where I get fuel is at a BP truck stop out on the interstate in the country. After I fuel up and get back on the road, my mileage climbs from 0.0 (sitting at the pump) to 23.0 or 24.0 running at 60 MPH in about five miles. This is where my truck seems happiest because everything else from that point just brings those numbers down. And as soon as I get off the big road onto a secondary to my town (45 MPH limit with four very active traffic lights over a 3 mile distance) the mileage will drop back to 21.0. I try and anticipate red lights to keep it rolling, but it's difficult on this road. I get up the next morning, climb into a stone cold truck, drive three miles through town and three miles back out to the interstate and my mileage will drop to 18.0 or so and climb back up once I get a ways down the interstate. Once I get within 12 miles of the city, I'm getting into heavier traffic. And the closer I get the more stop and go traffic I encounter. So what I do is watch the traffic ahead of me and adjust my speed so that I don't have to play the stop and go game. Keep it rolling, even if it means I've got a gap in front of me and every tin can four-wheeler with broken turn signals thinks they have a God-given right to jump right in front of me.
I've found the big fuel burners are the following in order....
1. Short in-town trips in a cold truck.
2. Driving the truck in winter, burning winterized fuel.
3. Heavy right foot.
4. High speeds.
If I were to drive like I see most drivers of large pickups/SUV's, my mileage would plummet. Most everyone drives over the speed limit and get caught up in the cat and mouse game of stop and go driving. Accelerate hard, brake hard, accelerate hard, brake hard. I guess to each his own, but I won't do it. I'll get close to 100,000 out of this set of tires and at 75,000 miles on the odo, I've still got 2/3 of the material left on my brake pads. And yes, I do tow (about 2,500 lb plus) occasionally and a truck load of family, church kids or scouts.
So yeah, I drive more sedately and yeah, I spend a lot of time in the granny lane doing my 60-65 MPH, but considering that I only save 2 minutes traveling at 75 MPH over 60 MPH in a ten mile stretch, I'll leave a couple minutes earlier, stay at 60 MPH and save fuel and wear and tear on the truck. And the added advantage is that I don't have to worry about running up someone else's backside either if I'm not paying 100% attention. It's the same way I drive an eighteen wheeler and with over 1,000,000 miles of accident free miles, I must be doing something right. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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The increased resale value of the diesel more than compensated for the additional cost. That cinched it for me.
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When I thought about the PSD when I bought my 02, I was planning on the V-10 but then while doing a little prudent research I discovered payback was at 70K then. And looking a crew cab resale values I discovered that "Double your money back" was a fairly sure bet. With the high miles I drive I got about three and half times my money back on the 02 psd.
Bottom line is if I had bought the V-10 I might still be driving it because of the low resale, by contrast the PSD had the lowest depreciation per mile I have had in over 20 years! I figure the 02 cost me at least $0.12 per mile less to drive per mile than the 92 E-150 it replaced and I drove it for 192K and still sold it for 5K. $0.12 times 30 to 35K per year is big money to me, in other words I got my PSD cost back more than once a year!
Buying another PSD X was not even a question after the number were known. I still think a V6 explorer may have cost as much or more per mile to drive and is only 1/2 the vehicle.
BTW the 02 had 110 K on it sold in the upper mid 20s three days after the 7 day ebay listing. I must admit it had extra value to the guy who bought it as it was set up just as he needed and was planning to do, We both made out very well [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Bruce
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2005 X PSD Limited Mineral Grey, 4X4 Has Second row bench then Every other factory option available. Under Construction
4x2 Lift Gate Lifts,
Tekonsha Prodigy
Ford 30MM Rear Bar
BridgeStone 285/75-16AT(D range) Revos, Now have a winter and summer set each with a set of wheels!
V Code LF, U Code RF Modified Fs in the rear
Catch All Linners
750 W Inverter
Magnaflow XL System W/ 3.5 DP OE Cat spliced in at 4" inlet and 3-3/4" outlet.
ART Rotors, Performance Friction Pads, Front & Rear
Rancho RSXs on Front and 9000s set at 2 on rear
06 Chrome Package Grill,bumpers and hooks. After an encounter with a Honda, (She got the ticket) 2005 Ex and Specs and Pictures of 2002 X
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My '01 4WD LTD has the gas V10. Yeah, I know ... What am I doing at this website? I looked at the diesels 'cause I like them a lot, but then I crunched some numbers. Taking into account the premium added to the purchase price, the fact that diesel runs a little higher per gallon locally than gasoline, and EXCLUDING higher maintenance costs for a diesel, I would have to drive the diesel 175K to 192K BEFORE I would realize any actual savings (that's how many miles of better MPG it would take to pay for the diesel). I'm long tired of a truck by the time I've put 150K miles on her, and that's another reason the "diesel lasts longer" argument is a moot point with me. So the diesel lost out.
On the other hand, I am quite pleased with my "typical" V10 MPG (11 city, 15-16 highway, 11.3 towing 5600#). My X averages 10% to 20% better than the '87 gas F350 crew-cab I had ... which, BTW, I sold with 192K miles on her, and never had to remove the valve covers ... never gave me a lick of trouble (bought her used at 43K miles ... US Navy surplus). Her downside was no matter how I drove, she never got better than 10 MPG ... and she weighed 3,000# less than the X.
I'm glad you're happy with your MPG. 21 MPG IS impressive.
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I'm not sure why everytime a diesel engine comes into the picture or discussion suddenly we have to justify it. Do any of us do that with any other vehicle option. I bought the diesel because I thought it would do a better job of pulling my trailers and it does. You buy the right tool for the job. I didn't try to justify anything and I'm happy with my decision. Better fuel economy, longer warranty, longer endurance on trips both loaded and unloaded and plenty of low end power for bringing heavy loads up to speed quickly regardless of altitude. I'll also get higher resale value when it comes time to replace the truck.
The only additonal maint. expense I've had over previous gas engines I've owned is buying 15 qts of oil for a change instead of 8. The truck has been rock solid since new.
__________________ http://community.webshots.com/album/124311395bOZfDt]
2004 Excursion Eddie Bauer 6.0 PSD 4x4 in Oxford White. Order date 1/16/2004, Build Date 2/9/04, Ship Date 2/10/04 Delivered 2/17/04. All options accept DVD & Chrome Running Boards. Accessories already purchased include Turbo Diesel Badges, Mud Guards, 4x4 Lighted Hitch Plug, Euro Style Rubber Antenna, Pet Partition, Adjustable Tire Step, Husky Mats & Cargo Liners, Tri-Ball Adjustable Drawbar, Diablo Predator, PIAA Silicon Wipers, AFE with Pro-Guard 7, Stanadyne Performance Diesel Formula.
2005 Arctic Fox 32D RV Travel Trailer
2004 Hensley Arrow Hitch
04 BrakeSmart Controller.
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I would have to drive the diesel 175K to 192K BEFORE I would realize any actual savings (that's how many miles of better MPG it would take to pay for the diesel). I'm long tired of a truck by the time I've put 150K
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Here in NJ they are selling used diesel Excursions for up to $10,000 more than V10 Excursions of the same year so don't expect to get the same price as a diesel Excursion with a V10 when you sell or trade it in. I had a 2000 4x4 Excursion Limited with 7.3 for three years and was glad it wasn't a V10 when I traded it in.
I'm not sure why everytime a diesel engine comes into the picture or discussion suddenly we have to justify it. Do any of us do that with any other vehicle option. I bought the diesel because I thought it would do a better job of pulling my trailers and it does. You buy the right tool for the job. I didn't try to justify anything and I'm happy with my decision. Better fuel economy, longer warranty, longer endurance on trips both loaded and unloaded and plenty of low end power for bringing heavy loads up to speed quickly regardless of altitude. I'll also get higher resale value when it comes time to replace the truck.
The only additonal maint. expense I've had over previous gas engines I've owned is buying 15 qts of oil for a change instead of 8. The truck has been rock solid since new.
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Justification came up for me because I had to justify to my wife why we were spending more money for an older X than a newer burb. I could have bought a newer burb 8.1 LT burb for less, or leased a brand new 8.1 LT for just a little more than my X. I had to spend an additional $700 or so on the X to make it handle correctly.
The reason I wanted it though was the diesel power...the mpg was just the way to make it happen in my family's budget.
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I'm not sure why everytime a diesel engine comes into the picture or discussion suddenly we have to justify it. Do any of us do that with any other vehicle option.
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This thread started with a comparison of diesel and gas powered SUVs. I merely added my 2-cents worth on why I chose the V10. Basically, the diesel would not suit the majority of my driving. I said nothing to belittle anyone's decision to go with the diesel. I did say I liked (as in admire) the diesels ... I just couldn't justify one for my needs. If I towed more miles per year, I'd probably have a diesel. In many ways, I am jealous of y'all with diesels. But the bottom line is we each make our own decisions for whatever reasons we have at the time. I come to this forum regularly for the many subjects not related to the engine.
In response to the consumer mag excluding info on the X, insurance companies have done likewise and have put the X into the "larger than large" SUV category by itself ... so where's the insurance comparison to the H2? OH yeah ... that's right ... there is no comparison.
This thread caught my attention due to the facts. The Diesel X provides good protection for my family with similiar/comparable mpg numbers as smaller gas SUV's. Can't deny the FACTS!
We all can justify why we drive these awesome vehicle's with factual data. The bottom line is, I bought my Diesel's because I wanted too. Nuff Said... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
BTW, I love the Rods!
Thanks! Dennis
__________________ My Photos----- BTS BUBBA "Life Member"
2002 7.3L Excursion 4x4, FTVB, MBRP 4" SS Exhaust, Rancho 9000X shocks, "V" code Front Springs & "B" Code Rear Springs, Ride Rite AirBags, Rear Hellwig Swaybar, Cut Front BumpStops, DieselSite Ext Trans Filter Kit - Coolant Filter Kit & 203 stat, "Scotpart" mod, "Hutched & Pooned", "LandYot" Radius Rods US Gear Overdrive 75mph @ 1750rpm's
2001 7.3L F350 CC LB 4x4 5" Exhaust, pillar guages, BTS Trans, US Gear Underdrive, DP 6 pos chip, V10 Trans Cooler, DieselSite - Coolant Filter Kit, Evans Coolant, 203 stat, DI reg Fuel Return, GT38R BB Turbo, AFE 2 Intake, Banks Intercooler, Air Rite Bags,
2000 Excursion Limited V10 4x4 7" Lift
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so where's the insurance comparison to the H2? OH yeah ... that's right ... there is no comparison.
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The H2 is just a Hummer styled Tahoe. The 2006 H1 will finally get the Duramax but the Excursion with 325HP 560T, HD 5-speed AT and 44 gallon tank is in a class by itself. If you know of another diesel 4x4 8 passenger vehicle with 44 gallon tank let me know.
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