I have read a lot of discussions on purchasing performance chips to add horsepower, and gauges to keep track of EGTs, etc. etc. etc. However, I have not seen many posts concerning performance mufflers.
I have heard that Flowmaster makes fantastic mufflers that greatly increase the airflow from the exhaust. Even though they don't specifically make a muffler for the PSDs, it is my understanding that gas engine mufflers will be just fine.
My questions are:
* Do any of you have a Flowmaster or other performance muffler?
* Have you seen an increase in power and/or gas mileage?
* Is it much noisier than the OEM muffler?
* Is a diesel-tuned muffler needed or can a gas muffler suffice?
Thanks in advance for the advice
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Tailgate
2000 Excursion Ltd, 4x2, 7.3L PSD, limited slip axle, K&N Filter, PSD Badging, Deep Satin Green with Medium Parchment leather interior
My questions are:
* Do any of you have a Flowmaster or other performance muffler?
* Have you seen an increase in power and/or gas mileage?
* Is it much noisier than the OEM muffler?
* Is a diesel-tuned muffler needed or can a gas muffler suffice?
1. Yes, a Dynomax race muffler. From other posts, Flowmaster makes a similar muffler only longer.
2. Yes, alot. The stock muffler is very restrictive. My X and CC use the same fuel and additive and have the same tires/chip/air filter. The X weighs 8400 lbs, the CC 7400 lbs. The X gets 20.5 mpgs, the CC 16.5. The only difference is the Dynomax. Some difference in fuel economy can be attributable to individual variations in the the engine tolerances, some to the fact the CC is not fully broken in and possibly some to variations in driving technique but I think some is also attributable to the increase in efficiency in exhaust. Put simply, if you add more air (a K&N), add more fuel (a chip) you have got to make provision for the increase waste or you won't get all the benefit, especially if the exhaust has to work against a restictive muffler. My experience was that adding the straight through muffler after adding a chip/air filter made a very noticeable difference in power.
3. Yes, a mild increase at RPM's above idle. Very tolerable on the X which has some sound insulation. I have not put a Dynomax on my CC and won't until I do something about the noise and vibration. With the CC I want to come out about even on noise.
4. What you want is a 3 1/2 inch straight through muffler, the kind you can drop a softball through.
The Dynomax is available through Summit racing for $67 or NAPA for $87-90. You will need to buy (special order)a 10' section of 3 1/2 for about $40. Forget trying to buy a shorter piece as 3 1/2 is RARE. Even muffler shops don't stock it.
Unless you are a good welder, take your parts to a muffler shop for installation. Total cost should be $150-160.
Just ordered my Flowmaster the other day. It should be here today actually. It also is a 3.5" straight through 4" out "racing Muffler". They say it should make a noticeable difference. Though I am kind of scared of what it will sound like. Guess I could always shove some steel wool in there if it's too loud. (JUST KIDDING!!!!!) It's only a hundred bucks though. I'll be sure to bring it by and wake you up Tailgate Oh... and you need to drive this thing with the hypertech in it. It screams!!!! give me a call.
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KwikStix
2000 PSD Limited, Chestnut, Medium Parchment Leather, Limited Slip, K&N filter, and a nice door ding from an uninsured Subcrapan
Why do you need 10' of 3.5" pipe? Doesn't the X already have a 3.5" exhaust pipe?
Also, you said that you noticed a difference in power and gas mileage. I am assuming you meant coupled with your Hypertech. Do you think it would make a difference WITHOUT a chip modification?
KwikStix: If you wake up my babies up with your ugly Chestnut asphalt wart, you're gonna pay!!!
Just Kidding bro.
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Tailgate
2000 Excursion Ltd, 4x2, 7.3L PSD, limited slip axle, K&N Filter, PSD Badging, Deep Satin Green with Medium Parchment leather interior
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tailgate:
KwikStix: If you wake up my babies up with your ugly Chestnut asphalt wart, you're gonna pay!!!
Just Kidding bro.
[/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a gorgeous asphalt wart!! ROOKIE!!!!!
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KwikStix
2000 PSD Limited, Chestnut, Medium Parchment Leather, Limited Slip, K&N filter, and a nice door ding from an uninsured Subcrapan
Hate to rain on the parade here but I have read, (therefore claim no real knowledge) that a chamber style muffler (ie a flowmaster) will not be effective on a turbocharged engine. Do some searching on the board before you pony up the cash. Chambered mufflers work because of resonance tuning and pulse scavenging, neither of which is happening post turbo. All you want post turbo is a big hole...
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Chris Brandt
Portland OR Y2KPSDLTDX
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Chris Brandt
Portland OR Y2KPSDLTDX
I agree with Chris B. You want a straight through muffler. If you can't drop a softball through it, don't bother upgrading the OEM muffler.
Tailgate,
You don't need more than about 30" or so of replacement 3 1/2" pipe. Your stock muffler is an offset style which allows for the two 90 degree bends and the use of diffuser tubes inside. When you go to a straight through configuration, the new installation will not line up as the inlet port is in a different location. To compensate, you need to cut about 2 - 2 1/2 feet of pipe off in front of the muffler, install a coupler and then proceed with the new installation. An 8" sawzall blade is great for making the cuts. Try to use as much of the OEM bracket mounts as possible and weld them back on to your new unit. Roger Woebbkee (sp?) posted some photos of a very neat install the other day. You will have about 8' of excess 3 1/2" pipe kicking around the garage probably until the X dies and goes to truck heaven.
As far as performance goes, somebody posted the other day that a straight through muffler was roughly equivalent to a 4" exhaust upgrade with a muffler. I would hazard a guess that you are picking up 20 hp or so, a gain that you should feel seat of the pants. Obviously adding a chip with 50 hp gain makes for a very discernable difference. In my case I did the muffler after the chip/air filter and was surprised by the amount of the improvement. I expected a barely perceptible improvement and in fact was prepared for the K&N experience - nothing at all.
I just don't understand what value a "straight through" muffler brings if you can drop a softball through it!!! I mean, why have a muffler on at all? As for Dynomax, my understanding is that they have baffles...doesn't sound straight through to me!
While the Flowmaster is "chambered"...you can see right through it easily. The cones just disperse some of the sound, to my understanding.
Hopefully some of you wrench heads can explain these things to a pencil pusher like myself.
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Tailgate
2000 Excursion Ltd, 4x2, 7.3L PSD, limited slip axle, K&N Filter, PSD Badging, Deep Satin Green with Medium Parchment leather interior
I rode in a new CC 7.3 duelly a few days ago, and was amazed by the fact that it had a 4" pipe from the turbo all the way back, with no muffler at all and was only slightly louder than my stock exhaust X.It had some hot chip in it and was so fast that I couldn't believe it.
I guess the question is, why use a muffler at all?
Wanted to post my $0.02. My buddy who has an F350 dually has the straight through muffler (Dynamax, I believe). Honestly, I am not sure how this can be considered a muffler or how it can even muffle anything. It is literally straight through. I don't see how this could be only a little louder than the stock muffler. He doesn't have it installed yet, but I will be interested to hear it. From listening to sounds of other diesels on the site with straight through mufflers, they sound like the big rigs. Call me a wuss, but that's not the kind of sound I want for the X. Just my opinion of course, only worth as much as you paid for it.
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-Eric 2000 Excursion Limited, PSD, black, fully loaded, Western Diesel chip, Viper 550 alarm w/ remote start, Alpine CVA-1005 6.5" head unit, Alpine DVA-5200 DVD player, Alpine CHA-1214 12-disc CD changer, Alpine MRV-T757 2-channel amp, Alpine MRV-F407 4-channel amp, 2 Alpine Type-R series subs (SWR-1040D), subs mounted in rear cargo doors, 21% tint all around
The principle at work is the same as with a silencer on a gun. The silencer is of course "straight through" for obvious reasons. Silencers do not muffle the sound of the projectile travelling at supersonic speed, but they do a good job at muffling the noise of the exploding gas. For this reason, a Dynomax or similar muffler is much better than a straight pipe that provides no muffling at all.
Granted, the OEM muffler is quieter than a straight through muffler, however, comparing the noise differential, which is surprisingly small, to the performance gain of a straight through muffler, I concluded the performance gain was worth the increased noise. Other people will come to the opposite conclusion depending on their expectations, tastes, and sensibilities. To each, their own!
Installed the DynoMax 17224 (Summit racing $70) yesterday. Very simple install, much better mid- and low-rpm response and not much noise at sensible driving.
Throaty sound at heavy accel., but the muffler took out all the flutter and banging compared to non-muffled output. (Tried by starting the truck with just the front 1/3 of the pipes in place, then again with the DynoMax just stuck onto that pipe).
Cut out the orig. muffler, turned the front pipe 180 degrees to make the bend go downwards and line up with the rear part, and TIG-welded the DynoMax in between. Had to use a forklift to get the rear up enough to where we could untangle the rear pipe over the rear axle. Had to take off the damper on the right side too. Two hours total.
Oh... and you need to drive this thing with the hypertech in it. It screams!!!! give me a call.
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