Rear Spring Solution?? - Road Tamer?? - Diesel Forum

Bruce1954 · 01-21-2006, 07:14 AM

I had seen this but looked at it as being to expensive, not so sure now.

Link Road Tamer

At 2K or so Looks to be a lot less than the Kellerman

Install looks fairly straight forward.

I was thiking by the time you add up springs, air bags, and radius arms and an air compressor you have spent about a grand anyway. Then you have a realy good system of band aids holding up your rear end.

Adding the available Kneeling feature has an advantage for me when my motherinlaw joins us. Could even help the sell with the wife.

Looks like they use the Rancho 9000s I think I would stay Manual on that

I would pay 200 for kneeling 250 for a improved ride

SO I am close to justifying the cost.

What do you think? Anyone know of anyone who has this system?

Thanks

Bruce

DOC4444 · 01-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Hi Bruce,

Looks pretty well executed except for the lack of triangulation. I'm surprised that they did not include a solid link between the axle and the trailing arm pickup point. It won't "wrap" as much as when attached to a leaf spring, but with an effective 5" lever arm (3.75" blocks) applied to just U-bolts, the laws of physics will still do their thing.

It should be easy to fix though, because unlike the Landyots with leaf springs, there is no need to incorporate some "compliance" into the link. You could use LY's brackets to attach at the axle end and a rod end might just slip in at the front and be retained by the front pickup bolt. Then, a single tubular link with a rod end at either end will do it.

With this setup, the only rear "bump-steer" left would come from what is inherent with a single trailing suspension during single wheel bump, or cornering. However, the wheel travel is still probably pretty limited, so it would be minimal. It would also be further minmized if the trailing arm is effectively level at ride height. That would make the wheel in single wheel bump toe "in" slightly. This is dynamically less disruptive than if the rear of the arm is lower than the front and the wheel toes "out" in single wheel bump.

The only way, of course, to fully eliminate "bump-steer" is to go to a proper, 4-link system.

In any case, had I seen this before I bought all the usual "stuff", I probably would have gone for it. Also, to be fair, you should include the cost of a rear leaf spring change in your comparison which narrows the price gap further.

I hope you go this route and that it works out well. No one will do a better job of execution and reporting it all to the rest of us.

Thanks as always for all of your contributions.

DOC

Bruce1954 · 01-22-2006, 12:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bruce,
you should include the cost of a rear leaf spring change in your comparison which narrows the price gap further.

I hope you go this route and that it works out well. No one will do a better job of execution and reporting it all to the rest of us.

Thanks as always for all of your contributions.

DOC

[/ QUOTE ]

I was figuring:
spring at about 250
Air bags 300 + by the time you get the tank and Misc to make it work
Land Yots not sure guessing at 250 or so

So add a compressor at 150 and you are at 950 0r so

Time to install sould be the same or less than all of the above.

Interesting they add a resivior tank to the system to further smooth the ride.

Thanks for the input

Bruce

thefermanator · 01-22-2006, 02:22 PM

I think it looks like a real good set-up for the X. Would allow lower ride height without sacrificing anything. And like you said, the kneeling feature would be invaluable for a FAMILY vehicle. Looks like a much better alternative to make the vehicle versatile and functional. Maybe FORD should have put this setup on the X instead of the crown vics(or whichever ones had air-ride).

Bruce1954 · 01-22-2006, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe FORD should have put this setup on the X instead of the crown vics(or whichever ones had air-ride).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was Opt on Crown vics, Still have a 95 town car that has it
Works great rides like nothing else

Had to but in new bags about 3-4 years ago no big deal if you buy on line and not from ford, still original compressor at 172K and over 10 years.

Her TC has been an incredible car I think I can count repairs outside of maintainence on one hand, and all toll well under a grand.

Darn I better shut and knock on wood! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I agree, It should be a good system with the trailing sleave type bags for lots of bag travel if you use the Aux tank.

I will be calling monday to see if they have done an X and how they do a Dump sytem with the Aux tank, I have thoughts on how it SHOULD [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]be done.

Bruce

thefermanator · 01-22-2006, 04:57 PM

Keep us posted, you've got me curious now.

Bruce1954 · 01-26-2006, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Keep us posted, you've got me curious now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok now I am Confused [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

I thought the Kellerman?SP?? was like 4K and a full replacement like the Road Tamer above I was looking for the Kellerman and found Kelderman for $999

Kelderman

This uses the stock springs, (another band aid system)

I know we talked about an air ride system here a while back but I could not find it.

I guess my memory and spelling are failing once again, can anyone help?

I am serius about finding the best possible rear end set up that can be had for an X with a reasonable cost.

Is there two Kellersomethings out there or am I all wet????

I thought B codes and with longer than mormal bags were as good as I could do but that does not cure the spring wrap problem. With bags and landYot radius arms being somwhat incompatable as I understand it I am still looking for the solution.

I think I've done about all I can for the X front with stock springs so I want to best I can in the rear as I plan on sitting in it for another 200K or more.

Bruce

thefermanator · 01-26-2006, 11:32 PM

Heres the link to kelderman Kelderman . There rear kit is $999 plus the tank and compressor. I like the road tamer setup better myself.

catguy3 · 09-10-2006, 01:03 PM

Did anybody do anything with the Road Tamer? I can't seem to find anybody that has one . . . or, is there somebody out there with a 4-link trailing arm setup?

Bruce1954 · 09-10-2006, 01:35 PM

Not that I know of, I talked to an engineer at Air-lift/Road tammer and he said he is not aware of any on an X and did not know how a 250 kit would fit.

I am going with Bs and custom long stroke bag set up.

Bruce

Hoowasat · 09-10-2006, 07:48 PM

After looking at the Road Tamer photos, I cannot fathom how it allows for axle articulation ... meaning, how it allows the suspension on one side to compress or extend more than the opposite side (real important when offroad and for ride comfort). Also, all of the transverse moments appear to be placed on the one pair of hinge points ... seems like it needs a panhard rod. And where are the shock absorbers? If the air bags are acting like springs, I would think that on a vehicle as lightweight as the Excursion (lightweight in comparison to 30K pound trucks where Road Tamer-like suspensions are normally found), one would need shocks to keep the rear from feeling so "bouncie." But this is just my 2-cents worth.

DOC4444 · 09-13-2006, 09:23 PM

Ooo, I get to start a fight with one of my favorite people. You obviously didn't look at the drawings or manual for very long. It does include a Panhard rod and offers brackets for both a single and dual shock set-up.

I don't see a problem with articulation. It's a simple, single trailing arm rig. A four-link would obviously be better, but I haven't seen one for a stock ride-height F250350/Ex chassis. And, the price doesn't look too bad.

I have two (different) concerns:

1. How does the geometry work out relative to the ride height I would want to run. If the outside rear wheel toes out as the truck rolls and that wheel goes into bump, I don't see a way to fix that other than deflating the bags and running longer blocks. (Obviously, only works to a point.) (You want only toe-in, in roll.) However, the company seems to imply that only one block length is OK. I'm guessing that is to keep people from messing with the geometry as they designed it.

2. I would install a link between the axle and each trailing arm pick-up point to fully triangulate it on each side and eliminate any toe-steer from "axle-wrap". (Sort of like LY's "radius rods", but they would be solid. No length compliance needed.) That's a big lever arm to having hanging out in the breeze there.

Anyway, if I had the money and couldn't engineer a 4-link, I'd buy it. When you think about the cost of new springs, Landyots and air bags, the price isn't not bad. Plus, it holds the promise of getting rid of the little axle-wrap that Landyots can't fully eliminate. (LYs have to have some linear compliance because of how leaf springs change length as they work.)

My $.02

DOC

Bruce1954 · 09-13-2006, 09:54 PM

Yes that is all good and well but what modifications are required to make a 250 kit fit an X? None? total rework?

Who would like to be first?????????? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]

Bruce

DOC4444 · 09-14-2006, 03:01 PM

I just had a nice conversation with Andy James at "Road Tamer" (now owned by Airlift). They have never attempted to fit their system to an Excursion. However, they are willing to take one in for a day, measure, take pictures, etc. and make a determination as to whether there are any issues. He did not think that any disassembly will be required.

So, is there someone anywhere near Lansing Michigan with a 4WD PSD Ex who would be willing to have them look at your truck?

(I don't think it matters if it is a 7.3 or a 6.0. Maybe a gas 4WD would be OK, too.)

Let us know. Several of us are very interested.

DOC

Hoowasat · 09-14-2006, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ooo, I get to start a fight with one of my favorite people. You obviously didn't look at the drawings or manual for very long. It does include a Panhard rod and offers brackets for both a single and dual shock set-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops! You're right! I missed the panhard bar & shocks. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Still, I have a difficult time with its ability to articulate. There would be sufficient compliance via the bushings in a 4-link set-up ... even a 3-link would do ... but this stout 2-link continues to bug me in that one area.