Rear sway bar benefits

[detroitfd]

Hey guys-

Just considering getting a rear sway bar, and wondered what difference they made. I know the RRs are better, but I don't have the cash for that now. Also sounds like the Ford and Hellwig bars are the same diameter in the rear, so are they comparable?

I've seen some say the sway bar helps with roll and PUs w capmer and such in the bed. I'm looking more to cure that wandering a little.

Thanks!

[clamgulch]

Wander is cured by radius rods on a stock height Excursions or ladder traction bars on stock or lifted Excursions. Anti-sway bars do help with body roll. I did all the mods with 2 different sets of springs and shocks, anti-sway bars, steering box tightening and everything else I could think of and it still wandered all over hell. I honestly HATED driving it. The last thing I did was install Four Real Steel traction bars and I instantly had a "new" truck that actually stays in one lane and can be comfortably driven with only one hand on the steering wheel. Before that, two hands weren't enough. If I bought another Excursion, that's the FIRST mod I'd do.

Keep in mind that body roll and wander from axle/spring wrap are two totally different issues. You don't solve wander problems by stopping body roll.

[DouglasH]

Where did you buy the traction bars from? I am sick of mine not staying in my lane.

[caryt]

I have to disagree, I live in a part of Nv. where we get 60 mph winds all the time and neither of my trucks budge in crosswinds or wander. Proper shocks, rear swaybars, spring mods to a X and most improtant wider rims and tires will solve the problems.

1st get a SD rear sway bar, do a B or F modded rear spring and front V code change, 9 or 10" wide rims and 12" wide tires and properly valved Bilsteins and your set. Do this in stages as $$ comes available

Cary

[Jupeman]

Fwiw, I found going with the rear sway bar and Bilstein shocks were a great improvement to the truck's handling. I have no "wander" issues, but do not necessarily attribute them to the sway bar or shocks. Check your alignment...

[DOC4444]

Clamgulch,

I have had "Landyots" on my 2001 4WD PSD Ex for a few years now and they clearly do more for directional stability than any of the other, more common, mods. However, the design still allows some "wrap". I see that the design of the "Real Steel" units should completely eliminate it, though at about 3X the cost.

What rear springs and blocks are you running? Is your truck effectively lifted and, if so, how much over stock?

Do the "heim" joints look like they will hold up for a few years or wear quickly like most spherical bearings in street applications? Do the "slip" joints seem vulnerable to collecting dirt/sand/etc. which could cause them to seize up?

Really would appreciate your feedback.

DOC

[clamgulch]

Traction Bar Kit - Rear - Black - F250, F350 Super Duty 4WD, Excursion 4WD

There's a rubber boot that goes over the slip joint and it seems to do the job. Attach them in place with Panduit ("zip ties"). The Heim joints go into a two piece hard nylon (or some sort of seemingly durable plastic) fitting that gets pressed into the sleeves at the rod ends and are held in place with clips. Tight fit- be prepared for frustration and don't even attempt it without a big vice or an arbor press and a bunch of dies (or big sockets) and some snap ring pliers.

The product is just hell for stout and very heavy.

Had the rear brackets welded on at the local muffler shop after I beveled the weld area for better joint penetration. Also had to hack away at my body support mounts under the middle seat row with a sawzall and move the E-brake cable. No biggie, didn't cause any problems. Four Real Steel traction bars are designed for Excursions are for LIFTED trucks, and I don't think they will fit a stock height truck unless you remove that body support mount and fiddle more extensively with the E-brake cable.

My truck is lifted 9" but I'm seriously considering dropping it to a 5" lift by pulling out the 4" rear blocks and buying shorter front springs. Note that even when I had NO blocks in the rear with brand new VERY stiff Skyjacker platinum shocks and springs and the Hellwieg sway bar, that I STILL had wrap problems and couldn't stay in one lane. Towing my 30' enclosed car hauler was just a nightmare. Now it tows absolutely straight as long as I use the hitch friction anti-sway system. The trailer has a mind of it's own like the truck did, making for death waiting to happen, and my wife almost put us over a cliff while spinning the truck and trailer 180* to prove it before the traction bars went on.
Ask Stewie about trailer fishtail with an Excursion....

Like I said, I've done all the mods (except radius rods- I skipped over that), and if I were to buy another excursion, traction bars are the first mod I'd do. I'm certainly glad that some of you guys haven't needed them- I don't know if all trucks would benefit, but mine sure did. It wouldn't stay in one lane from day one, and installing a Hellweig bar, new springs and shocks didn't help enough to have even bothered. The most amazing thing besides staying in one lane is that now the back end squats straight down and the front pulls up when you jump on the throttle instead of the back end wagging the whole truck. The difference is just profound.

I cannot remember where I bought them, but if you pull up my profile history, I know I've mentioned it a couple times in the Excursion threads. Should be June through October 2006. The guys I dealt with were just superb, but I've lost the link to their website. Sun_s also bought a set at that time and maybe he remembers.

Shop around- prices vary enormously. There are other brands or solutions that may be adequate for your needs, but I wanted the best that money could buy because I was sick of how dangerous my truck was. I got mine for about $380 iirc, because they had been on a SEMA show truck and then removed right after the show and all the brackets replaced with new ones. Everything was as new when they arrived. However, they list for something like $1,200, so like I said, shop around.

[caryt]

Clam, had no idea your X was raised that high..ya you need traction bars but for a stock height or up to 5" or so..not required unless some one wants to drag race it..as always IMO.

Cary

[clamgulch]

Yes, 9" of stupid lift. I'm 6'3" and you would think I could hop right in, but I'm also 50 and not as flexible or spry as I once was. That sucks because I'm still an idiot kid at heart, but the busted out disc in my low back is no longer appreciating my weighing 275 pounds so I hurt most of the time if I do anything. Crawling under the truck is something I avoid for months at a time just because it hurts to bend over and get down onto the ground. Frickin' drunk driver rear ended my datsun B210 way back when and the steel bar in the seat back took out my disc plus one in my neck from the whiplash. (He was driving his VW for a week with no brakes and only $25k in liability. I capped his insurance out just paying my medical expenses without even considering that I'd ever need surgery, but I'll tell you, I'd sure love to have an artificial disc installed). So a 9" lift via ordering the wrong front springs has really been a pain- literally.

For whatever reasons that I've never figured out, my Excursion has had spring wrap problems since new. Total PITA that has pissed me off with unlimited frustration- that's why I'm so adamant about the traction bars for lifted trucks. I've had that rear end suspension apart so many times trying to solve that problem that I could do it in the dark. Lifting it definitely made it worse, but even at 4" mine was unmanageable. That was specifically why I put new Skyjacker springs all the way around that are stiffer than set concrete with shocks to match- I eliminated the rear blocks until I installed the wrong front springs and had to put blocks back in. Nothing helped other than a barely noticeable amount, but it was still just crappy. Maybe it's just my driving style, I don't know. The rear traction bars made such a huge difference that I've very seriously considered building a set for the front suspension. But at the moment, I'm preoccupied with trying to install another new drive train in it...again.
Some trucks are "tighter" than others and apparently don't need radius rods or traction bars. They exist, and I take people's word for it, but I suspect they are the exception rather than the rule. Anyone with an Excursion like that can be very thankful. I want to lower mine down to a 4" lift again. That's the height it was at when my wife almost killed us, with that sloppy loose rear end being a major contributing factor. So if I do lower it from 9" to 4" the traction bars stay on. Honestly, if I was going to lower the truck until it sat on the running boards, I'd STILL have the traction bars on it. The difference is really that significant ON MY TRUCK.

[thogue]

I have quite of bit of Axle Wrap , I think . It makse a roaring noise when I acclerate . I have 4 inches of lift . I looked inot traction bars but as I recall I skipped on it due to the $$$ . Do you know where you can get them at a reasonable price and what brand do you reccommend? I appreciate it . This is my first EX and the first truck I have put a lift on , so I really don;t know whats normal . Thanks .

[caryt]

Axel wrap doesn't make noise..till the tires start hopping Where are you located? What lift?, springs? What shocks? Do you have a SD rear swaybar? You get the picture.....need more info.

Traction bars..only ones I would ever recommend are Rize but $$$

Cary

[clamgulch]

What you are descibing isn't axle wrap, which should be silent- that's why everyone goes into denial about it. If the "roaring noise" is accompanied by any vibration:

1) crawl under the truck today with a 10mm wrench and make sure the drive line bolts are tight. No gap between the plate faces. If not, take them out and use Locktite RED on them. I have a perfectly balanced, straight to within .002 driveline, and without locktite red, I can pitch them all out on both ends of the drive shaft in 300 miles. Don't ask how I know.

2) You probably need a cardan joint (two U joints in a 8" long section) installed at the front of your drive shaft. With 4" of lift, I could NOT get rid of what you are describing without it. I tried 8 different shim angles and nothing helped. I've got $700 into my driveline and that roaring (vibration) went down to a tolerable level, but it's still there and will be forever because of how short the Excursion drive shaft is.

3) Check your U-joints. If one of them is toast, it will roar. Look for rusty powder around the U-joints on the drive shaft. If it's there, the joint is shot. Chock the wheels, remove the drive shaft and take it to the shop for U-joint replacement. Make sure you use lock tite to reinstall it.

4) At 4" of lift, make sure you have enough spline engagement in the slip yoke. Iirc, mine was a bit short, and that can be where the noise is coming from.

[clamgulch]

Here's a thought- Axle wrap in an Excursion creates an effect like you would get trying to drive a kid's little red wagon BACKWARDS- with the steering in the back. Good luck going in a straight line.

Meanwhile, the front wheels are steerable too, so now it's like pushing a Home Depot flat cart that some idiot installed steerable wheels on both ends. 10 minutes of that and I'm ready to trade in my cart for a new one.

That's why anti-sway bars do NOT stop or directly address the problem. Anti-sway bars DO cut way down on body roll, which contributes to the wander upon cornering by compounding the effect, but body roll is NOT the source of the problem. How can it be when you are going in a straight line? That's why I keep saying to install radius rods or traction bars FIRST. Then if you have a problem with body roll, by all means, deal with it.

As I've said numerous times, the stock springs and shocks are junk right from the factory, so I'm not saying that stuff doesn't need to be replaced too- I just am trying to help people understand what the source of the problem is so they fix that FIRST. After that, maybe they will be happy with the stock springs. I doubt it, but that's their business. Stock shocks on anything 99.9% of us can afford aren't worth the scrap metal they are made from. They are the cheapest garbage Ford (and most other car makers) can get away with. Further, even the best shocks wear out- 30,000 miles is enough, even on $100/ea shocks.

I hate sloppy, soft suspension as a driver. Most of you would probably hate how stiff my Excursion rides, but for towing on the Alaska Highway with a trailer that wants to porpoise, my suspension is great. But unpredictable rear steering via axle wrap is something nobody should put up with because it's just plain dangerous. Unfortunately, it's not cheap to remedy either-

[jafo]

I'm on my second Excursion, and have not experienced axle-wrap with either. I can easily see how it can happen once you lift an Ex, and it certainly appears that 'clamgulch' has addressed all the concerns that occur when you do. I've lifted a couple of pickups in the past, and have experienced the wear that occurs in every facet of the truck- driveline, steering, springs, shocks- everything....
With that said, I CAN strongly recommend the rear sway bar, and do agree on the purchase of good aftermarket shocks (I've had good results with both Bilstein and Monroe Reflex, but don't expect them to last much more than 30K) I've had the AirBags on both trucks, and they help as well, but are not there for axle wrap.

If you are looking for more control than that and ARE experiencing axle wrap on a stock, non-lifted (or at least not past 'U' or 'V' code front springs and some minor adjustments to the rears) Excursion, and don't want to spend the arm, leg, and torso, you might get some answers from the folks at the following link. CalTracs are a very recognized and respected name in addressing this problem.
Jim

Calvert Racing, home of CalTracs, "The Bar With The Bite"

[Tripleplay1]

I like the excursion but find them terrible to tow with. I have my eye on one right now. What you guys are saying should help the towing also? What I have experienced is the rear end feels like it is on ice! Its dangerous..