Replace OEM front sway bar or not?

[Guardrail]

Well after a swaying cross country trip in the X the family financial advisor (you know who I mean) agrees to the need for a sway bar or bars. I'll go with a Hellwig for the rear without a doubt. The question is is it worth it to replace the stock front sway bar with the expense of a Hellwig. Would really like to hear from someone who replaced first the rear and then later the front. It's agreed the rear bar (mine has none) improves the handling. Wondering if anyone noticed a further improvement after later installing a Hellwig on the front too? I'm ready to order.

[DOC44]

I did just what you are asking about. 2001 4WD PSD Excursion. Went with U code front springs, 6 degrees of caster, lots of steering box adjustment, F-250 bump stops, Bilsteins, rear air bags, rear Helwig, 17X8 wheels with E load range tires. This yielded a significant improvement in directional stability, but it still was not into the "acceptable" range, in my opinion. I then added the front Helwig bar. This moved it into the acceptable range, though still not as good as our dead stock 1999 3/4 ton diesel Suburban (RIP).

I researched all the versions of this Ford chassis I could find and discovered that the Ex is fitted with the largest diameter front sway bar that Ford makes. Helwig is the only company I could find that makes an aftermarket front bar for this chassis. It's way bigger in OD than what comes on an F-250, but only slightly bigger than what the Ex comes with. Nonetheless, the improvement I observed would be worth it if it cost $1000 because the truck was just undriveable without all the above mods.

After doing all of the above, I learned about the "Landyot" radius rods. The concept makes a great deal of sense to me to eliminate the toe change in the rear. It has always felt to me that the rear end literally "steers" itself back and forth .

I have the kit now, but have not installed it yet, so I can't report it's effect on my extensively modded truck. However, given what I have heard from others, and my understanding of the real problem, I would not be surprised if just these rods and steering box adjustments would be enough to fix what's wrong with these rigs. Were I to start over, I would try one of these kits first.

Increasing rear roll stiffness normally never improves directional stability. It usually degrades it slightly. The reason I believe the rear Helwig helps so much (as do the rear air bags) is that it helps the weak (relative to other rear springs used on this corporate chassis) rear springs over one-wheel bumps, thus limiting the toe change in the rear. Adding the front Helwig further helps the rear springs in roll, helping reduce the rear toe change a little more, but it also biases the f/r roll couple more towards understeer, which generally helps directional stability. Think about it. There are huge numbers of vehicles that roll massively in corners, but run like arrows in a straight line.

It's ridiculous that you have to apply this much time, effort, expense and intelligence to obtain barely adequate DS in a $45,000, 8000 pound (empty) vehicle, but if you don't want a pickup and you want serious power for towing, a PSD Ex is the only option until GM puts the DMax in a Suburban.

It's just flat ugly.

DOC

[mike650]

I just purchased both front and rear Hellwigs. I have not installed them yet but I did check to see if they would fit and what clearance I would have. The Hellwig for the front is definetly bigger than the stock sway bar. The cost for the bar was $139.00 from Summit Racing and I got it in two days. I will tell you this, Hellwig's "quality control" is terrible. You will see when you receive your parts that the paint job sucks. You will probably end up re-painting the hardware or powder coating it like I am. I will be installing my Hellwig anti-sway bars soon and I will let you know. Personaly, the cost for the front sway bar is not very much and you get a beefier bar so, "yes", I think it is worth it.

Good Luck!

[Guardrail]

Mike650 - You could make the original question easier to answer with a scientific opinion if you first installed the rear bar and drove the truck and noticed any change (universally agreed the change will be a dramatic improvement). Then install the front bar and note any further improvements. Your suspension is still stock, so this would universally answer this question for others like me out there. Will probably order both soon before the next deployment.

[caryt]

[ QUOTE ]
After doing all of the above, I learned about the "Landyot" radius rods. The concept makes a great deal of sense to me to eliminate the toe change in the rear. It has always felt to me that the rear end literally "steers" itself back and forth .



[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a link for this Landyot [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks, Cary

[mike650]

I personally do not have the time to install the rear sway bar and test it for a week, then install the front sway bar and test it for a week. Remove everything and then have it painted or powder coated because of a very poor paint job. I was just trying to alert you to this fact and to make time for it. Who knows, maybe you have a specific time line to do this installation, I do.

In my original post I also included a place to purchase the bar and the price I paid for it.

I know from my own experiences that the Hellwig front anti-sway bar will improve my handling even if some say it may not be a drastic change. My friend, who is going to install both bars, has a f350 rear sway bar installed on his X. He too was researching into a front sway bar and was very impressed with the Hellwig while my X was on the lift and we were comparing front bars. He can't wait to test drive my X when the work is completed.

DeHavilland_Diesel, I apologize if you did not receive the scientific opinion you were looking for. It appears that you have been a member for awhile; my original response is no different than some of the other guys and gals on this web site. Some responses are from experts, some from novices like myself who share their personal experiences and are just trying to help. We are all taking the time to assist each other.

Take care!!

[FamilyRide]

The bar may be only slightly larger, mut it'a also different material that is much stiffer. I compared my stock Expedition bar and the Helwig and it was like night an day. I could twist the OEM bar on the fground, but the Helwig was like trying to twist concrete. It was a definate improvment over the stock bar which was a pleasant surprise!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[mike650]

Thanks FamilyRide!!

That confirms our thoughts and makes me feel better about my decision to address the painted hardware before doing the work.

PS - When I originally received my sway bars and saw the Hellwig factory paint job, I sent them back and had a new set sent to me. With my luck, I figured I received bad set. The second set I received had the same problem. I called Hellwig and spoke to their technical assistance person. He confirmed the "quality control" issues with the painting process. He also said that for a price Hellwig would powder coat the bars/hardware, and that they were looking at addressing the current painting process. Some may say that the sway bars are under the truck and you will not see them but I like my stuff to look clean so that is why I am spending the extra time to powder coat my Hellwigs.

Take care!!

[DOC44]

You can reach "Landyot" at: hoowasat@cox.net

DOC

[FMTRVT]

Have you guys actually measured the Hellwig front bar? Based on the other discussion that bounces around different sizes and calculations, I went and checked my rear Hellwig which is listed by them as 1.250". It measures 1.135". So I'm wondering if they list the size as a "relative" diameter based on chrome-moly stiffness rather then actual size, or maybe Hellwig changed the size between when I bought it and now.

Just an inquiry, not trying to make more out of this.

[mike650]

Finaly installed my Hellwigs then took my X on a test drive into the mountains. The handling was awesome!! It feels like I have a brand new truck. To everyone who has an older X that did not come with a rear anti-sway bar - this upgrade is a must!!!

Also..

I took my Lyman Caliper and measured my old front sway bar, it was 1.430". I then checked my new Hellwig front bar and it measured 1.517". Hellwig advertised the front sway bar as 1-1/2". There is also a big difference in weight and strength between both sway bars, the new Hellwig being superior to Ford OEM. Just for kicks, I then checked my Hellwig rear anti-swaybar and it measuered 1.317". Hellwig advertised the rear bar as 1-1/4". Not much else to say except if your are on the fence about a front Hellwig sway bar, go for it.

Back to the mountains, yahoo!!