Brake Problems on new 2003 - Diesel Forum

JCooper · 02-26-2003, 02:04 PM

Folks:

Just a heads up in case anyone else has a similar problem. My van would feel like the brakes were slowly dragging more and more without any pressure on the pedal until they would very nearly lock up. Happened to me once at about 450 miles. Let'em cool off, seemed to be OK. Took it to dealership, found no problem. Happened to the wife last week, about 900 miles on odometer. Took it to the dealership, couldnt duplicate the problem. Let them keep it to test for a day. One of the techs got it to "do it" twice in one day. Brought out the Ford engineer, couldnt decide what to do. Replaced master cylinder and booster, after 3 days wating for the master cylinder. Hasnt repeated since, but it has only been a couple of days. I'll let you know if the problem occurs again.

Jeff

buggy · 03-02-2003, 05:36 PM

We had the exact same problem with at almost the same milage. We took delivery of out van Jan 27 2003. The dealer had it for a day and could not duplicate the problem. I took it home went to hook up the boat trailer and had the front breaks lock up.

Could you send me the name and number of your dealer so that I can put out dealer in touch with them.

Thanks
Andrei
acular1(at)tampabay.rr.com

7up · 03-03-2003, 05:23 PM

Jcooper,
Ditto for me also but it has not appeared again yet.Also i have a hard peddle at times.Did you have that problem also?

TONY

JCooper · 03-04-2003, 09:44 AM

Tony:

I didnt really notice it having a hard pedal. But then I dont get to drive it much! My wife did say she thought that the brakes were "pulsating" (her word) but I blew it off thinking it was just the 4 wheel ABS working properly with her not being used to the 4 wheel ABS.

Havent had any repeat problems since master cylinder and booster were replaced, but it has been cool here. Service tech said that the engineer thought it was heat related- a valve in the system would "swell" when it got hot and cause pressure to build up in the system. He didnt elaborate any more than that.

Took them 3 days to get a master cylinder by the way. I thought that was excessive. I would have thought it would be a fairly standard part.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Jeff

buggy · 03-04-2003, 10:13 AM

Tony

Our van actually gets a softer almost spongy peddle before the breaks lock up. I asked the dealer to bleed them but it hasn't helped, so butnow that I have proof that more people are having the problem I have something to go back to them with.

Andrei

FMTRVT · 03-04-2003, 12:10 PM

This is a condition that occurs when the booster push rod is adjusted too long and does not allow the master cylinder to return all the way, closing the compensating ports in one or both hydraulic systems. With the port closed, fluid cannot return into the reservoir.

Simply, the brakes are then always lightly applied. As the pads and caliper heat up due to the dragging brakes, the brake fluid also heats up and expands. This applies more and more pressure to the brake pistons since the compensating port is closed. Hotter it gets, more it applies.

Over heated brake fluid or pads can cause a spongy feeling. The fluid can get to the point of boiling, and the air compresses. Once cooled, the fluid components re condensed.

This will also lead to heat spotted brake rotors and uneven wear, which results in brake pulsation either immediately, or 5, 10, 15,000 miles later.

The correction is to remove the master cylinder and readjust the pushrod. If the hydroboost systems do not have the adjustment, it is possible that there is a manufacturing tolerance issue.

JCooper · 03-04-2003, 02:00 PM

Jack:

The process you describe sounds exactly like what I experienced, except for it was not continuous. Would the booster rod being mis adjusted or mis installed create continuous or sporadic symptoms?

Jeff

FMTRVT · 03-04-2003, 04:03 PM

What I gave you was a simple explanation after getting a flag from Larry on the web. There are a variety of things that do have be checked by engineering.

While a simple pushrod adjustment can cause this, there can be other issues as I alluded to. With a pushrod misadjustment, the cup may be so close to shutting off the compensating port, that a little binding on the return can be the key. The usually mode for a misadjustment is after a new master cylinder is put on with different tolerances where the pushrod fits. Considering all of these vans appeared to be fresh off the lot, there is the possibility that someone at the assembly point is not correctly adjusting the pushrod to 24.9 to 25.25 mm.

Another situation would be one of the 2 pivots on the brake pedal binding and not allowing full retraction. This can be checked when the problem occurs by pulling the pedal towards the seat with the top of your foot.

A slight binding in the piston or valve of the hydrobooster can also mimic the same thing, but pulling back the brake pedal may not be corrective.

Historically other things that I've seen cause this from the factory are loose insulation from the bottom of the dashboard, and a mis installed brake light switch.

So it can be one of a number of things, but all need to be checked. I'm not trying to be an alarmist here, but with a situation where the brake fluid has boiled has led to accidents, as the pedal will go down close or to the floor. (If it's only one of the 2 circuits of the master cylinder, front or rear, then you loose partial braking and have a long pedal about 1/2" above the floor. If both circuits boil, no stopping power). There have been situations where people have had accidents with the driver stating the brake went away, then the police check the pedal with the brake fluid cooled and no problem found. Just like mechanics.

Again, I wasn't trying to alarm you guys with the above paragraph, but it is something to take seriously. If you have had the issue, it needs to be taken care of.

JCooper · 03-04-2003, 05:38 PM

Jack:

Thanks for the info and the heads up. Obviously, I'm trying to watch my van as closely as possible, but I may have to take it away from my wife for a while until I feel more confident in the dealership's solution to the problem.

Thanks again for the info.

Jeff

Larry M · 03-04-2003, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What I gave you was a simple explanation after getting a flag from Larry on the web.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jack,

As always a big thanks for taking the time to give the members here the straight "skinny" and valuable time to help us. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

Respectfully,

Larry

2003E350 · 03-04-2003, 09:29 PM

I received my Van 10/09/02. I have 12k miles. No such problems. I have had a wierd pull to the left after long periods of highway driving in the wet weather. I hit the brake once and then again for actual braking and no problem. I attribute that to wet brakes. Other than that the ONLY warranty problem it took (2) passenger side aero headlights to get one that would not have condensation inside after a week.