Gauge installation in 2004 6.0 van - Diesel Forum

DarthSurplus · 03-07-2005, 09:22 AM

I put the gauges in the van. I put three Autometer Cobalt gauges in an overhead cluster with a secondary dimmer switch. It's a 10k Ohm dimmer switch from Radio Shack with snap-off. I’m ashamed to admit how long this took me. I spent quite a bit of time prepping the wiring harnesses, and getting the secondary dimmer switch properly installed. Frankly, the only thing about the project that was easy was drilling the up-pipe for the pyrometer probe. The boost gauge has the slightest, barely perceptible lag, when compared to the truck, because I ran the entire length of tubing from the T-fitting to just inside the cab. The truck uses ¼” line, and only two or three feet of that.

I haven’t installed the trans temp sender, because I didn’t know where to put it. I just did a search which yielded four superb pictures showing where to install it. I’ll have to splice the wires for the sender because they aren’t long enough. Using the overhead takes up an additional three feet of length. The pyrometer probe just barely reached the driver’s side up-pipe. I didn't mount the gauges on the A-pillar because my wife and I both wanted to retain the A-pillar grab handle.

I routed the wire and tube through the grommet for the speedo cable – which is behind the brake pedal.

Boost line installation:
The first thing I did was thread the wire loom over the 1/8” white nylon tubing. I used a zip tie to fasten it to the rubber fitting on the tee. The white line is curly, so it isn’t very cooperative. I ran the boost line from the tee fitting, which is basically right next to the MAP sensor, through the angular black plastic wiring trays which run horizontally along the lower edge of the back of the engine compartment opening. I clamped my smallest set of alligator vise-grips to the end of the wire loom, and dangled and fished it down through the compartment, between the engine and the brake booster. I then used a gas-tank retrieval tool to fish the vise grips down past the power steering box from underneath. I worked it around so that it actually passes over the driver’s side coil spring mount, and then trimmed the wire loom to expose about six inches of the white tubing. I used the vise-grips (gently?) to push the white line in through the speedo cable grommet, assisted by my darling wife, who caught the other end.

I was kind of surprised at how high the EGTs run in the van, and I was also surprised that it can make about 23 psi of boost, bone stock. It doesn’t breathe real free and easy, though, with that nasty muffler and choking intake. Somebody oughta do something about that, eh? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I’m aching and sore, tired and cranky, yet somehow have this sense of deep satisfaction. I did it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Now for the transmission sender. Maybe in a couple of weeks . . .

I know what you're thinking: Recovery time. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Wrong. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] Extended forecast. Yesterday was the nicest, warmest day we will see for a while. Today we have been returned to our regularly scheduled cold, rainy, nasty stuff. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

DarthSurplus · 03-07-2005, 02:45 PM

I looked at the van for the first time since the installation today on my lunch break. I wish I had painted the windshield, or something. The black back of the mount doesn't really stand out, but the white rectangles of the double-stick velcro strips look pretty goofy. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I suppose painting the inside of the windshield would amount to quite a mess, though, wouldn't it?

Perhaps one of those powerstroke decals might work?

CMOS · 03-13-2005, 10:09 PM

There is black backed velcro available all over the place....

CMOS

DarthSurplus · 03-14-2005, 07:36 AM

It isn't your run of the mill velcro. It's actually a stiff plastic strip appropriately called "mushroom tape."

DarthSurplus · 03-17-2005, 07:34 AM

Updated link for overhead gauge cluster.

DarthSurplus · 03-19-2005, 07:17 PM

I set out to install my Autometer Cobalt transmission temperature sender today in the torqshift in my 6.0 Econoline van. I felt prepared because I had looked at several members' pictures of their installations. All of the pictures I looked at were of trucks and excursions.

There is a cast aluminum canister, mounted to a bracket on the side of the torqshift approximately 3/4" away from the little plug. 1/2" metal lines run from over the tail of the tranny into this canister, and then onwards toward the front of the van. I guess that these lines go to the tranny cooler, and the canister is a filter housing.

I am thinking of making a 7/8" thick steel shim to mount the canister further away from the tranny, and make room for the tail of the gauge sender. There is plenty of room in the direction I want to move the canister. I am a little worried about this displacement putting a strain on the metal lines.

Could somebody please offer me some guidance on this issue? Should I shim this canister, or listen for a voice saying,
[ QUOTE ]
Thou shalt not touch the metal lines, neither shalt thou look upon them with longing, that thou mayest move them. Thus sayeth the Ford! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Plan B: Install a brass street elbow, and a 1.5" length of pipe, and a double-female fitting for the sender. This would place the sender probe entirely outside the tranny.

Plan C: (gulp) Pull the pan, drill a hole in it, and have a friend weld or braze a fitting into the hole.

Thank you for your help!

Larry M · 03-19-2005, 07:56 PM

Let me say I don't think you're going to like my answer ... but ....

[ QUOTE ]
Plan B: Install a brass street elbow, and a 1.5" length of pipe, and a double-female fitting for the sender. This would place the sender probe entirely outside the tranny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't do that since that puts the sensor too far away from things and even on the 4R100 with a dead ended pressure port on the actual tranny there is like a 15 o 20 deg bias having it there over what the PCM sees.

[ QUOTE ]
Plan C: (gulp) Pull the pan, drill a hole in it, and have a friend weld or braze a fitting into the hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep you guessed it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] either do that or maybe there is an aftermarket pan for a couple hundred bucks that has a temp sender port in it like some of the 4R100 pans. If I had someone that could do this to my current tranny pan I would be tempted to do this and move my current sensor to the pan since I think that is the best place.

Welcome to the Vanner mod adventures where nothing you've read replaces first hand experiences. Keep us advised on how things work out and if you have a camera pics would benefit future Vanners a lot on how you've solved these issues. I wish I could help more and maybe after tomorrow I might be a little more informed on some of this 6.0L Van stuff.

Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Yardbrew · 03-19-2005, 11:42 PM

Yup, "C" is the best option.

The Autometer folks told me that they recommended brazing a nut on the pan and threading the probe there.

On my 2002 tranny there was a test hole on the side of the transmission case that was threaded and was suitable for the temp probe. I have always felt that it was not really secure but, so far, no problem.

Yardbrew

Larry M · 03-20-2005, 06:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yup, "C" is the best option.

The Autometer folks told me that they recommended brazing a nut on the pan and threading the probe there.

On my 2002 tranny there was a test hole on the side of the transmission case that was threaded and was suitable for the temp probe. I have always felt that it was not really secure but, so far, no problem.

Yardbrew

[/ QUOTE ]

Over my morn' cup of Joe, I was digging around and came up with a Plan "D" which is fairly expensive and while I'm not a big fan of these larger tranny pans he could get a PML pan like THIS from Mark Craig who likes these. That pan according to what I read over on another site has a boss that can be machined for a temp sensor and PML will even machine it for you ($$$ unk), but again Mark should be able to help him out with those details.

I guess to be complete Plan "E" would be to throw one's hands up in the air and say "forget it", but we all know that Vanners don't give up so easily.

BTW, THIS is what I think he has for his interference problem.

Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

fordmastertech · 03-20-2005, 11:03 AM

I used a bolt in bung that is used to install a drain plug in a transmission pan. You can get them at most auto parts stores for around 7 or 8 bucks. You have to drill out the center of the bung but it will work, I have one in the transmission pan and rear diff cover. There is a pic of the one in the rear diff in my signature but it's not the greatest.
FMT

Larry M · 03-20-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I used a bolt in bung that is used to install a drain plug in a transmission pan. You can get them at most auto parts stores for around 7 or 8 bucks. You have to drill out the center of the bung but it will work, I have one in the transmission pan and rear diff cover. There is a pic of the one in the rear diff in my signature but it's not the greatest.
FMT

[/ QUOTE ]

FMT,

I don't know if you've seen a 6.0L Van, but I specifically looked at this pressure port issue today and dang just to get to that thing it looks like you're going to have to remove the bolts holding on the factory tranny filter to get even a pressure testing fitting on there. This set up on the Vans if definitely not ideal and there isn't even enough room for a tranny temp sensor to clear the stock location of the tranny filter. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

It looks like Plan C is the best way to go on this for the Vans IMO along the lines of what you have posted and thanks for your input here, it is appreciated since it's often hard to get real experts to cruise down in the "lower forums" at times. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also on the Quigley Vans or at least the one I looked at today they had to remount the oil filter so that it is sideways which is going to make a mess changing the oil filter since it's down low and not oriented like the stock 6.0L Van filter is.

Larry, keeper of the "little secrets" CLICK HERE [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

DarthSurplus · 03-21-2005, 12:46 PM

Thank you all for your input. I can get an OEM pan to monkey with from powerstrokeshop.com for $46.75. Or I can get a cast aluminum unit from PML for in excess of $200.00. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I like the PML pan, and I'll buy one if I can reach the conclusion that it is a helpful mod. The writeup about this pan on DPP's site is confusing at best, and maybe contradictory:

[ QUOTE ]
You might also notice that the pans are NOT powder coated! You are buying a high capacity pan to lower fluid temps and prolong the life of your transmission, powder coating is an excellent insulater, it holds the heat in the pan! Increased lubricant capacity can also hinder the transmissions ability to cool the fluid. Too much increased fluid capacity will ONLY keep your transmission fluid cooler upon initial start up. Once all the fluid is up to the same operating temperature the transmissions ability to cool the excess fluid will actually over tax the pump and the coolers capacity to exchange fluid heat to the air. The pump and cooler is designed to flow "X" fluid efficiently, if you exceed the pumps capacity you will increase temps and waste fluids at maintenance intervals.

[/ QUOTE ]

I come away with:

1) no coating = good
2) extra capacity = bad

3) overall benefit of mod = unknown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Does anybody want to weigh in here with some knowledge or experience? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'd be much obliged. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Casey_1 · 03-21-2005, 01:10 PM

There isn't a lot of cool air near the trans pan, so even if the pan conducts heat better, there isn't much potential to cool the fluid.

Extra fluid will take longer to warm up, and take longer to get too hot. By the same reasoning it will take longer to cool off, too, once it does get warm. And unless you get more cooling (and I don't think you can get more cooling from a pan) you will still get the fluid hot if your current setup gets it hot.

For my money I'd leave the stock pan and get a better cooler.

DarthSurplus · 03-21-2005, 09:29 PM

The PML pan's much higher thermal conductivity, plus its greater surface area, should both contribute to an ability to dissipate heat at a much greater rate than stock.

I would be much more concerned about porosity in the casting leading to leaks than exaggerated claims of effectiveness. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The higher thermal conductivity means that the surface temperature for a given set of parameters (including fluid temp) will be higher than stock. The greater the temperature differential between two media, the higher the rate of heat transfer. Even if convection (air circulation) is negligible, the increases in the other two forms of heat transfer, namely conduction and radiation, should surely make a measureable difference. I seem to remember something about how a flat black surface is ideal for radiating heat. A thick black coating would be another proposition entirely. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

All of this thermodynamic theorizing does me little good, since I can't readily measure my stock pan.

Yardbrew · 03-21-2005, 10:52 PM

I realize that I keep sounding like a broken record but........

please make sure that you really do need the extra cooling capacity of an auxiliary cooler.

I have pulled an 8K trailer in really hot Texas weather and haven't needed more transmission cooling capacity. Yes, there were times when the fan locked up, but, overall, I got by fairly well with just the cooling capacity of stock transmission cooler.

Now, if I had to pull a heavy trailer over some rough mountain roads where I couldn't maintain good speed, I would install an aftermarket transmission cooler.

Yardbrew