Salem Kroger 4x4 conversion - Diesel Forum

MikeL46 · 03-12-2005, 05:17 PM

I've had the Salem Kroger 4wd conversion on the road for awhile now, and am ready to pass on my feelings.

If you are not aware, the S-K coil spring 4wd conversion uses 2005 F-350 components (transfer case, auto-locking hubs, complete front axle with brakes, axle locating arms). This has eliminated some service problems where dealers won't work on the front end because of the aftermarket parts. The 2005 F-350 brakes are larger and require the use of 17" or 18" wheels. Since the bolt pattern is also changed, you have to get new wheels anyway, so it is not such a big deal.

I used 2005 F-350 takeoff wheels/tires (eBay) on my conversion. The new wheels have more backspacing (6") than the van wheels had (4.5") and that allows the use of 1.5" spacers to convert the rear bolt pattern to match the front without putting the wheels outside of the body. in fact, the rear tread width (tire center to tire center) is unchanged, and the wider tires add about 1"/side to the outside of the tires. Still inside the van body. The fronts have the same spacing changes without the wheel spacers. Since the stock van tread width was slightly more than the stock 05 F350 tread width, the outside of the tires wind up in about the same place as stock - again, just inside the van body - no fender flares needed.

Suprisingly, the conversion was very straighforward. The stock spring mounts line up with the new axle, and so do the stock shock mounts! 1.25" of spring spacer was added to get the right ride height. The stock steering box works with a replacement steering arm off on earlier F350. The front crossmember has to be notched under the engine for pumpkin clearance on the new axle. The notch was reinforced with heavy steel plate. The only other modification to the frame were mounts for the three axle locating arms - the two BIG ones behind the axle and transverse one up front. The original antisway bar mounts are used.

The ride is similar to stock. Probably a little worse because of the increase in unsprung weight, but certainly not objectionable.

Salem Kroger was very easy to work with. The biggest problem is always getting to speak with Craig. They are very busy with conversion on government vehicles and ambulances. But, when I showed up for some rework, they dropped everything and put my van right.

When I took the van into the dealer for the trans recall, the tech had to ask me if the van came from the factory like that! Using all Ford parts makes it very difficult to tell it is a conversion. All in all, I'm happy with the conversion and I think it was a better choice for me than either a Quigley or a Sportsmobile conversion.

Mike

msnunes · 03-14-2005, 10:12 AM

When did they change from leaf springs to coils in the front? And do they still sit a bit higher in front like they used to with leaf springs?

MikeL46 · 03-14-2005, 03:59 PM

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When did they change from leaf springs to coils in the front? And do they still sit a bit higher in front like they used to with leaf springs?

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Ours was only the 2nd coil spring conversion they have done. So, we did have a little bit of a learning curve on how high to set the front suspension. They still do leaf spring conversions - depends on what you want.

We had blocks put in the rear suspension, and it is 1/2"-1" higher than the front.

Mike

kf6ivi · 03-14-2005, 05:01 PM

My Work is getting ready to send a van there to get converted. What gear ratio did you use? Salem Kroger wants us to use 513 ratios, with a tire size of 34 x 12. I feel that is way to low. The van will be use on Pismo- Oceano dunes most of the time. But the van will need to be able to do 75 mph on the freeway (yes it ok with the red lights and loud noise maker [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]).

Thanks Ethan

MikeL46 · 03-14-2005, 06:39 PM

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What gear ratio did you use? Salem Kroger wants us to use 513 ratios, with a tire size of 34 x 12. I feel that is way to low.

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I have 4.10 gears and 33" tall tires. 2000 rpm is 66mph. 5.13s and 34" tires gives you about 54mph @ 2000rpm. 75 would be just under 3000rpm. No problem for a 6.0L PSD. Your mileage may suffer, but the van should be good for 100mph.

Mike

pon · 03-14-2005, 07:46 PM

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The van will be use on Pismo- Oceano dunes most of the time.

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Low gears don't help in sand? My observations are similiar to Mikes, 4.10, 295 tires (33.5), 65-67 mph at 2000 rpm. I don't understand their logic.
Pat

msnunes · 03-15-2005, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When did they change from leaf springs to coils in the front? And do they still sit a bit higher in front like they used to with leaf springs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ours was only the 2nd coil spring conversion they have done. So, we did have a little bit of a learning curve on how high to set the front suspension. They still do leaf spring conversions - depends on what you want.

We had blocks put in the rear suspension, and it is 1/2"-1" higher than the front.

Mike

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Just curious -- is there a reason for the "change" to use coils? I thought it was sort of their signature to use leaf springs, and that it was the same system used on F-series trucks, and that Ford even adopted their design... etc. Makes it look like they are kind of copying Quigley now that they do coils also.

MikeL46 · 03-15-2005, 12:31 PM

I wouldn't say they are copying Quigley. They are using the new F350 front end completely. Quigley has those trouble prone articlulating locating arms for the front axle; S-K uses the massive Ford F350/450/550 arms to locate the axle. All the spring mounts etc. on the S-K are built onto the axle by Ford. Quigley uses a Dana 50 front axle, the Ford axle is a Dana 60.

And they still make the leaf spring front end if that is what you want.

It is nice to know that I can go to my local Ford store and get any parts I want for the van. Everything is either 04 E-350 or 05 F-350 components. Quigley is very helpful, but you do have to call back to them to find out what parts are used on your van.

Mike

toalpi · 03-15-2005, 03:15 PM

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Quigley uses a Dana 50 front axle, the Ford axle is a Dana 60.

Quigley is very helpful, but you do have to call back to them to find out what parts are used on your van.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ] Quigley does use a Dana 50 on the E250. The E350s and larger get the Dana 60. Quigley provides a list of all parts/numbers. The two companies are not really in direct competition. Quigley is on fords "ship-thru program" meaning the van ends up at your local dealer. S-K is only a "ship-to" meaning that you must pick up or arrange shipping when they are done. I'm not trying to bash S-K but I wonder if they are an approved "Intermediate Manufacturer" or a "Final stage Manufacturer". I don't know this to be fact, but I wonder if S-K requires that the vehicle be registered before they do some or all of the different types of systems they offer. When a company like Quigley is working on new untitled vehicles AND fully complying with FMVSS they can't offer custom features like winch bumpers and wheel spacer/adapters to convert to other than factory wheels. Modifying a used vehicle allows some flexibility as far as federal safty standards. I suspect that Quigley has taken a long hard look at the 05 F truck front end, even before the first one hit the showrooms. And I know that ford engineers have contact with Quigley engineers. S-Ks use of that axle and parts sounds like a nice set-up. Using a longer than stock "pitman arm" will increase the steering effort "some", but I have to put up with that on both of my Quigleys also. The end result for Mike is a very nice van. We are all better off having S-K and Quigley and Quad-Van as options.

MikeL46 · 03-15-2005, 04:14 PM

Salem Kroger is certifying vehicles to meet FMVSS. And working on unregistered vehicles. Obviously, they are a lot smaller than Quigley. And, since they don't mark the vehicles they work on, you will not know it is a Salem Kroger vehicle when you see one.

I've never seen a Quad-Van, don't know what they use. The Sportsmobile conversions use all aftermarket parts. Quigley uses a mix of factory and proprietary parts. S-K uses primarlily factory parts. Quigley is less money, Sportsmobile and S-K cost about the same, S-K a little less. Again, I don't know about Quad-Van.

As toalpi said, the more 4wd converters there are, the better for all of us.

Mike

ddog · 03-16-2005, 08:51 AM

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I've never seen a Quad-Van, don't know what they use.

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This is my e-mail correspondence to date with Quad Van.There website says no frame modifications and nearly stock ride height. Looks like there system is similar but didn't give specifics. Kit may be interesting for those of us lighter of wallet.

[ QUOTE ]
Michael,
Just curious as to the price for a 4x4 conversion for my van. Its a 2003 E-350 Chateau, 7.3 PSD, 44,000 miles +/-. Van has a 3.55 without LS. I assume your system replaces the rear end as well to match the front.Your specs indicate 28 gallon fuel tank? Does the conversion replace the stock 35 gallon tank? Is it available in Kit form? Thanks for any info.
Derrek

Hi Derrek The ifs conversion runs $10,99500 The solid axle long arm conversion runs $10,495.00 The 3.55 rear end is common ratio to go with stock tires so we would not need to replace the gears unless you would want a specific ratio or limited slip . Due to the placement of the transfer case the factory gas tank gets shortened to a 28 gallon tank. Also available from Transfer Flow is a replacement 46 gallon 4x4 tank. Yes We do have a kit coming out that will be getting released by the mid of May that will be a long arm conversion similar to the 05 super duty 4x4 front end , the kit will utilize the 99-04 super duty or the excursion front differential any questions please feel free to call me on my direct line at 503-236-1199 Thanks Eddie Percic

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Also, Who makes the spacers to convert the bolt pattern?

Derrek

msnunes · 03-16-2005, 10:19 AM

I almost went with S-K initially, but my dealer worked with Quigley so that saved some leg work. If I were to do it again, I'm not sure what I'd do..... Too many choices! I'd might not go with Quigley, the new S-K sounds good, and Sportsmobile's special version is intriguing too. I guess I'd need to see them in person.

MikeL46 · 03-16-2005, 10:42 AM

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Also, Who makes the spacers to convert the bolt pattern?

Derrek

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There are a bunch of sources for bolt pattern conversion spacers. Do a web search for 'wheel spacers' or 'wheel adapters'. Most of the manufacturers will do conversions. All of the ones I found were made of aluminum - which worried me a little until it was pointed out they are made of the same aluminum as the forged wheels, and quite a bit thicker.

My spacers were made for S-K by a local machine shop that does their custom work.

Mike