Van advice needed:

[Pat Dolan]

I looked around the driveway at the sea of sheet metal and polished aluminum the other day, and came to the realization that I don't have anything left that can haul more than 2 people and their gear in comfort, or 4 adults for a very short distance. I need a big box. And, if I am going to buy something, (had thought of putting a 6.2 into an Impala wagon) it WILL be diesel, and I would like it to be able to easily convert to 4WD, and I want BIG. What's the sense of going part way? I wouldn't mind a 6.5TD, and I would LOVE to put either my 6D14T Mistsu or 12v CTD into something - but these are definitely not van-friendly engines, and I would like to buy it and drive it for skiing this winter.

So, I am thinking of the last generation of extended van. While I would prefer a Chevy (rear axle location for towing) I can get a 1989 E350 15 Pax Chateaux (or Club Chateaux??) from a friend for a very reasonable price. What am I getting myself into? Is this still a 6.9 or is it 7.3? What are the change-up years for engines and transmissions, and what can I expect from this vehicle?

I have virtually NO experience with domestics in this category.

Pat

[yaric008]

Hm.. well it being an 89 it is a 7.3L. I believe in 87 they switched over the 7.3. I'm not too tranny savvy so i'm not sure what tranny it will have, my guess though would be a C6. I believe in 90 or 91 they changed to the E4OD, but i'm going to have to look that up. You need to watch out for cavitation in that 7.3 though. You need to make sure your friend has kept up with the anti-cavitation stuff. I would think this vehicle would probably suit you fine though.

For the towing you mention you don't like the axle location on the extended vans.... hopefully LarryM will come in soon and give you the link for the Tow-Rite towing kits. Basically makes it so it tows directly off the rear axle instead of from right at the rear bumper. Makes for alot safer towing, espcially in an extended van.

As for converting into a 4x4, that'll be pretty tuff in my opinion. It being an 89 and all. You could talk to Warwagon_S though, he knows all about this body style and converting to 4x4.

Goodluck!

Edit: my bad... it was Pullrite not towrite, here is their website, http://www.pullrite.com/

[Pat Dolan]

The Pull-rite hitch is very interesting. I could see easily modifying a trailer to move a connection point to just behind the rear axle (similar to their setup).

I see from their stuff that '77 to '91 is the design generation of the van my friend has. It certainly looks stout enough to do the job, and if it is a 7.3 (I think OW mentioned that it was) that is a little better than 6.9 I should hope. Now common are used turbo kits for this engine?

There were 4WD conversion companies (a low priority project due to the large number of critical ones in the yard now) that did this conversion, so the most critical item (steering box) should be available. The rest (axle, transfer case, etc.) is pretty easy.

Pat

[DivinDave]

Greetings Pat,

I can log in with some real world advice on the 89/90 van. I had one of each. Both have a very reliable 7.3 IDI engine. Ony major issue is cooling cavatation that is easily taken care of using the adative. I ran over 300k with each vehicle and both are still in operation with the people that have them now. Go through engine bolt-ons (Alts, h20 pumps etc) every 100k or so, but the engine lives on.

The 89 will most probably have a c-6 trans unless it was produced very late in the model year and then it may have a E40d. The e40d does give better economy and lower engine revs at high speeds, but in my experience was problematic due the the constant headache of sensor problems causing fault codes on a regular basis. The c-6 never gave me one moments problem in 300k miles with just routine fluid changes even when towing heavy loads.
Great van, good reliable power plant. They will eventually rust out in the rear floorboards and bottom of the doors if they live in the rust belt. Price by now should be dirt cheap.
PS: I towed thousands of miles with no problems with a standard clss 3 hitch. Both were ext 15pass vans.

[Pat Dolan]

Thanks Dave. The more I think about it, the more one of these things makes sense. I usually have about 6 or 7 vehicles licensed, and around here (government insurance) you don't get any break for multiples..i.e. no such thing as a package policy. The older van would be cheap to insure, and it will be a very occasional use vehicle for those times we want to take a bunch skiing and the like. I could probably get along alright with a gasser, but it is a hard thing for me to bring myself to do. Most of all, idea of something simple, cheap and reliable is most appealing, and the big Chateau seems to fill the bill.

Pat

[Keil]

I think the 89' is a great idea for all the reasons you mentioned.

For the 4x4 conversion, check out Steve Best's site, he's from up north as well. Covers all details of 70'/80's ford van conversion, his is a 6.9 diesel, www.glinx.com/~sbest/4vanhow.htm.

[Pat Dolan]

Keil:

Couldn't get the link to work. Do you know another way there?

Pat

[Larry M]

[ QUOTE ]
Keil:

Couldn't get the link to work. Do you know another way there?

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

Pat start <font color="red"> HERE</font>

Larry

[Pat Dolan]

Larry:

Thanks, that was some very good reading.

Pat

[Larry M]

[ QUOTE ]
Larry:

Thanks, that was some very good reading.

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

You're welcome and just wish I could help you out more on your basic questions, but this being my first diesel, I know nothing about the older ones and even much about this one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I do think either the pullrite or hensley is a good idea for towing with the extended box van. If I ever went with a longer/heavier trailer I think I would look seriously at the 2/20K pullrite to get over the overly restrictive 1K tongue wt on most WD hitch setups.

Larry

[Pat Dolan]

Larry:

This is why I much prefer the desingn of the extended GMs. They put the 20 or so extra inches in the wheelbase, whereas Ford just tacks it onto the back end (a much cheaper way of doing it). The problem I see with the Tow-rite setup is that you could no longer go up an obstruction without unloading the rear axle, unless it articlates about a horizontal axis at the bumper, which put the actual load right back at the rear, regardless of where it "pulls" from.

Unfortunately, a 6.5 TD GM 15 pax is about as scarce as a Tucker on the used car market. It seems even in vans, the kind of vehicle I want has to be built from pieces one way or another. I haven't had more that a couple of vehicles ever that did their job as made.

Pat

[Yardbrew]

Pat,

How much weight are you going to pull with it?

Would the restrictions of a conventional frame mounted hitch prohibit what you want to do?

I agree, F**d would have been much better served to increase the wheel base and lower the center of gravity on the extended vans.

Too bad.....the folks in accounting probably don't communicate much with the folks in engineering.

Yardbrew

[BoneHead]

If you are concerned about the towing issues with the stretch van you might want to consider going to a dually rear axle. It is basically a bolt on modification and stops a lot of the sway problems with larger trailers. I tow a 32 foot camper with garage area that runs around 8500 lbs loaded. With the dually rear I find it rarely gets that "loose" feeling and the extra braking power comes in handy. I originally went duals with an axle from an '87 460 powered ambulance bolted onto my '75 E100 with 3/4 ton rear springs. When I upgraded the van to diesel a few years ago I did so using a '99 ambulance and now have the '99 dually rear with ABS brakes. The springs are still the 3/4 ton I upgraded to 10 years ago.

[Pat Dolan]

Never know what will get stuck on the back. My heaviest small trailer is a 34' flat deck on a pintle hitch carrying maybe 35% of trailer weight, and has to mount up very close to an axle. I have towed it quite comfortably behind my old Chevy 3/4 ton camper special, so I know I can live with it behind a short overhang, single axle van. Otherwise, I usually have a car trailer or kart trailer on the back, neither of which is very heavy, but the up-and-down from the long over hang would raise caine with them.

I am thinking that I might go with my buddy's 15pax just to get started on the whole business of having something with a diesel to use, then either modify or buy another once I have a good feel for what it will be doing in real use. If I was to get really goofy, I figure I could just chop the first van at the end of the long back window and graft the rear from the FRONT of the same window onto the back, stretch the frame and get more wheelbase and a little more interior room as well....too much tinking, not enough shop work getting done.

Bonehead:

Want to avoid the dually thing to keep the width under control and the other thing is that I drive in a lot of snow, for which dual rears are nearly totally useless.

Pat