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'2012 6.7L Fuel Issues Warranty Denied!!

43K views 80 replies 35 participants last post by  wefings marine 
#1 ·
I have learned there are many threads on the Ford diesel websites indicating that there are many others having the same issue, so I thought I would share my story with the Diesel Stop crowd.

I have been without my 2012 Ford diesel for nineteen (19) days due to a fuel contamination issue. The contamination source appears to be water. Ford’s “A Guide to Properly Diagnose Contamination and Repair Diesel Fuel Systems” call for the following parts to be replaced out of warranty:
· High Pressure Fuel Pump
· Engine-mounted high pressure fuel lines
· Both high pressure fuel rails
· Eight fuel injectors
· Fuel injector return hose assembly
· Fuel delivery pressure switch

The estimate for the replacement parts and labor total $9,000.00

I am very thorough when it comes to maintenance and care below is my typical regimen:
· Only fuel at high volume filling stations and never fuel while the filling truck is present
· Replace fuel filters every other oil change (Ford Motorcraft parts)
· Drain the low pressure separator monthly

On January 27, the truck displayed a reduced engine power message and shut off 5 seconds later, I barely made it off the road. The water in fuel light was not illuminated and it was towed to a local dealership, where they issued me the $9K estimate. I have filed a claim with my insurance company and it is unknown at this time if it will be covered. My insurance is sending a fuel contamination expert to evaluate my truck and I was informed not to proceed with any repairs.

My beef with Ford is there is a fuel/water separator with a water in fuel light on the truck and it did not do its intended job. I have gone above and beyond the factory’s maintenance procedures.

With my insurance taking over, I am guessing I will not see my truck for another 2-3 weeks. My truck was purchased new with an extended warranty and was supposed to give me many years of trouble free service. Now I am questing my investment and when this is all said and done, I am not sure I will be able to trust it knowing that I have done everything right and it still can leave me stranded on the side of the road.
I contacted Ford Customer service to inquire as to why I have never seen my WIF light on and the link to the video below is their response. Its definitely worth listening to, she contradicts herself and basically unless Ford starts selling diesel we are all screwed and our fuel systems are $10,000 ticking time bombs.
And for the record I do not use any fuel additives.


This is the 3rd week without a truck and this sucks, this Sunday is going to be fishable, if I had a truck to pull my boat…..
 
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#2 ·
If I were you I would file a complaint to nthsa. Once enough of these cases happen they may make ford do a recall, or start replacing systems no questions asked like VW and Audi.
 
#5 ·
This is what scares me regarding the purchase of one of these new trucks. The only way to bring Ford to the negotiating table is by hiring a lawyer and get ready to fork over $$$ in legal fees.
 
#6 · (Edited)
ULSD is very hygroscopic which means it has a very high affinity for water and moisture. There are two types of water contamination with regard to diesel fuel. Free standing and emulsified. Free standing water, the molecules are pooled together forming large droplets that are easy to filter and collect and ultimately remove. This type of water contamination will turn on the WIF light when enough water has been separated and collected. Emulsified means that the water is mixed with the fuel at a molecular level and dispersed throughout the volume of fuel even binding with the fuel molecules. This type of water contamination is difficult to filter and separate and it therefore will pass through filters and completely through a fuel injection system. Since emulsified fuel does not collect and pool it will never turn on your WIF light. Dealing with this emulsified water is a multi-industry concern, not just automotive and can be expensive to deal with respect to mitigating it and it's effects on fuel storage and fuel injection systems.
 
#7 · (Edited)
That, and the fact that ULSD has essentially no lubrication properties. I religiously use PM22A fuel additive. To the original poster, I agree that you should drain the separator on a regular basis, but filters at every other oil change is a waste of time and money, in my opinion.
 
#8 ·
All sellers of diesel powered products needs to have a bold lettered warning label on vehicle: "Currently available fuels may contain water in levels known to cause very expensive harm to fuel system on this vehicle. The filtration and warning system on this vehicle has been shown to not be effective in containing the harmful moisture or warning you of this problem. This vehicle may suffer engine shutdown as a result of this issue at any time with no warning and will not run until the multiple thousands dollar repair is performed to remedy the failures."

Ford and all the others know of this issue. The statement made by consumer affairs rep basically says this.

I know we can't be protected from everything but they give us rev limiters, transmission shift protection (the reason you have dead pedal when the torqshift can't get into gear as opposed to revving and burning up clutches), traction aids, anti-lock brakes, etc., etc. but this one is currently unmitigated.

I know this is an issue that is affecting small percentages but I believe I can have a traffic accident in spite of driving to avoid them and I believe I could win a lottery so why should I think I could buy a 6.7 and avoid WIF injection system death?
 
#9 ·
The more I dig into this issue the more I realize the severity of the situation. Diesel fuel has a saturation point of water at any given temperature. The current filter setup for the 6.7L can not handle emulsified water and therefore it’s not a matter of if this type of failure will happen to your $65K truck, but rather a question of when.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I hope to never have to eat my own words (meaning it happens to me) but I still don't think this is a major issue and by major, I mean happening to a bunch of people. With 550,000+ of these motors out there, even 1/10% of them would be 550 of them.. I wonder if Ford has had that many failures of the high pressure fuel pump…

I know I'll definitely be taking precautions, I'll be using fuel additive for water separation that way the water separator can do its job. I'm also adding the diesel site fuel filter system on there as well so I'll be filtered down to 2 microns.

Also going to arm myself with a water monitor slip at every fill up (thanks to managing a gas station) and file it with my receipts to prove there is no water every time I fill up.

Sounds ridiculous to have to take these steps but I'll be ready to battle if this ends up happening to me.

I hope the upgrade pump on the 15s solves this problem that people are having…
 
#11 ·
the roller lifters in the pump are junk,at 2000 engine rpm the lifter wheel is turning 7000 rpm while trying to make 5k-30k of fuel press all while being lubricated in ulsd...? really...?at 4000 engine rpm the lifter wheel is turning 14k rpm...? something to think about.ive done more 6.7L pump grenade jobs than 6.4L pump jobs.once the wheel and cam start to scar its just a matter of time...
 
#12 ·
To the Ford Doctor, Please help me understand how the fuel system works. In looking at the 6.7L bible, it appears that there is a fuel cooler that can be used to heat or cool the fuel going back to the DCFM. At the DCFM there is a thermal recirculation valve or the possibility of returning the fuel to the tank. It looks like there is a temperature controller determining if and when the fuel gets diverted back to the tank. Depending on the air temperature and humidity, it seems like warm fuel could help promote the possibility of your fuel tank sweating. With the constant recycle of fuel through a gear driven high pressure fuel pump, isn’t this fuel system a perpetual emulsifying machine in itself?
 
#14 ·
fomoco, I haven't fact checked any of the rpm's you listed, saying the speeds are correct. That isn't very fast for rolling elements. They need very little lubrication and will never scar from rubbing. Rust could easily pit them, or they could start to flake off metal.
The alternator bearing comes to mind. Lot's of belt tension, turning 5 times faster than the motor. The little ball bearings would be moving very fast. Those get a dab of grease on day one and never get any further lubrication yet seldom do they fail.

Seems they could make them more robust or resistant to water, maybe separate the fuel that lubs the pump back to the return. But the fact it roller seems like a plus, very little lub needed.
 
#15 ·
Im not sure if you have had a HPFP apart on one of the 6.7L (duramax also) but I cannot see why the design just cant be modified to have engine oil or some sort of internal oiling system for the cam and rollers. Have an inlet and outlet valve setup for the high pressure fuel and it would seem bullet proof and no ill affects from water in the fuel. The pumps I have seen fail were not due to water but just from product failure. Not sure what kind of force is needed to generate 30K PSI but based on the size of the pistons the force on the rollers and cam cant be extremely high.
 
#19 ·
UPDATE!!!

Well after 47 days, I finally got my truck back. I was lucky, my insurance company was working another case and made a correlation between the vehicles and where we last fueled up, the filling station’s insurance stepped up and covered the $10,000 bill. In my quest to ensure it doesn’t happen again I installed an aftermarket fuel filter/water separator from DIESELSITE.com. The setup is installed on the opposite side of the frame rail from the stock primary filter and uses factory style quick connectors, so I literally had this thing installed in 20 minutes. So my fuel now passes through this filter before passing through my stock filter. I attached a few pictures of the install.
 

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#20 ·
Well after 47 days, I finally got my truck back. I was lucky, my insurance company was working another case and made a correlation between the vehicles and where we last fueled up, the filling station’s insurance stepped up and covered the $10,000 bill. In my quest to ensure it doesn’t happen again I installed an aftermarket fuel filter/water separator from DIESELSITE.com. The setup is installed on the opposite side of the frame rail from the stock primary filter and uses factory style quick connectors, so I literally had this thing installed in 20 minutes. So my fuel now passes through this filter before passing through my stock filter. I attached a few pictures of the install.
I've had a Dieselsite filter on for about a year now. You'll find a lot of discussion on them both here and on other Ford forums. Just keep in mind that the filter still won't remove emulsified water and it can still be overwhelmed by a lot of water in the fuel. When I'm at home I buy fuel form the same high volume dealer (Flying J) but when we're on the road sometimes we get it where we can get it. As a mater of course I try to check the filters a few miles after fueling up. Hopefully, if I got a bunch of water on the last fill-up it, will start to show up and I can stop and take action BEFORE a catastrophic failure!!
 
#25 ·
Is the water in fuel a regional problem? I have never had a water problem since my first diesel in the 80's. Is this an east coast problem???
 
#27 ·
We just had four of our local stations change brands from Shell and Phillips 66 to CENEX. One of them sold E85 and has now switched that out to diesel. When I saw that, and it being closer to home from where I normally buy fuel I stopped in and asked how they 'purged' that E85 tank. The clerk had no idea so I called the owners office (he owns all four stations / handi-marts). I asked the question there and was promised a call back later that day. Needless to say I did not get a call. The next day I stopped by the store again and spoke to a 'more knowledeable gentleman and clerk and their answer was that 'Shell' pumped what they could out of the tank and then they (CENEX / the distributer??) just refilled the tank with diesel. Guess who won't be buying diesel there for quite some time!!
 
#30 ·
Same issue , insurance turned it down cause sensor didn't work and it didn't fail for 20k miles , parts were 10 weeks out when mine failed at 49k back in Dec 26 2013.I asked Ford at least 3 times to test sensor.They refused. Took to independent repair shop tested WIF sensor bad from the gitgo . Attorneys have it now . I will never buy a Ford product again . They treat their customers like S**T . Truck also has bad death wobble [ bone stock with balanced properly inflated tires] as well . Wife was in it second time . She wont ever get in it again.
If I ran my business that way , Id be out of business..............
 
#31 ·
Badbart - I hear you on this Achilles heal that the 6.7's have in the fuel system. However, the 7.3s won't pass emissions and the 6.0hhs were in their own right a disaster. Now of course, you can make 6.0hhs pretty much bullet proof - but that requires going around the emissions on them.

All of us are waiting to see if the new changes to the fuel pump eliminate this concern.
 
#32 ·
I've seen references to a 'new' fuel pump. What is this about, and will it be backwards compatible?
 
#33 ·
bumping this up to see if anyone has gotten any information on what the pump does special and If we can upgrade to it?
 
#34 ·
Back in Shop

I haven't heard anything concerning a new fuel pump, but I can tell you what to expect to break next. Truck left me on the side of the road on a bridge this morning, I had 2 hrs. to contemplate how to get it over the side and into the Mississippi river. Dealership has it now, I am pretty sure it’s 2 of the 4 EGT sensors, just waiting for the dealership to call to confirm and even though the truck is still in warranty I am hearing that they are not covered, good job Ford.
 
#35 ·
...Dealership has it now, I am pretty sure it’s 2 of the 4 EGT sensors, just waiting for the dealership to call to confirm...
Let us know when you hear back from the dealer, jhymel1. How many miles are on your truck? I'll see what I can do to assist.

Crystal
 
#39 ·
So I got my truck back, it was an EGT sensor and was covered under my extended warranty. Hats off to the dealership for a quick turnaround. I did see on the internet last night that FORD issued a recall on “Ambulance Prepared 6.7L” recognizing that prematurely failing EGT sensors could leave a dying patient stranded. As for the rest of us, we will have to live not knowing when will be the next time our FORD leaves us stranded on the side or the middle of the road. Although the dealership will not replace the other 3 until they fail, I have ordered them and will replace them myself.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Aside from what James said, you can go to the Tousley website, and put in your make/model/year,etc, and order that way. Thats what I did. As part of the order you provide your VIN number, and they verify that the part is correct for your vehicle. the part number for my 2011 is EXH TEMP SENSOR AC3Z-5J213-B . It may or not be the same for yours, but I expect it probably is. There are 4 on the exhaust. Search this forum, and FTE for EGT11, or P200C (one of the CEL codes that are set when they go bad) there are many threads, some of which have photos of the locations on the exhaust. Takes a 13mm Flare nut wrench, due to the plug on the pigtail. I wouldnt try a open ended wrench, as they are pretty tight, and you may round the nut off.
 
#43 ·
Someone posted on another forum he cut the wire and used a ratchet deep well 6 point 13 mm..
 
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