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'2017 - Same Jackhammer in a New Body?

23K views 95 replies 17 participants last post by  Maryland dieselnick 
#1 ·
Unless I am mistaken, it seems Ford has come full circle on its position concerning valves sticking valve during regen cycles (which creates a nice jackhammer effect), once again taking its original position that this is "normal" behavior so no fix will be available.

I understand that very little information on the 2017s is publicly available, other than a general statement that no major updates to the engine will be made.

Given those two pieces of information, it seems to me that Ford will not be fixing this issue (or, in Ford's view, "non-issue") in the 2017 trucks?

My question: Does anybody have any credible information that Ford is or is not going to address the sticking valves during regen cycles in the 2017 trucks?
 
#3 ·
As the guys in my service center explained with their own disbelief, TSB 16-0041 solves nothing. But if you think replacing a head and valves with the exact same head and valves is a fix, well then I guess you have a point. But don't you end up with the EXACT same motor (albeit once rebuilt), and still prone to the same "non-issue" that existed before? To me that is NOT a fix, just insanity. Einstein is quoted as saying "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, but expecting a different result."

Perhaps I am wrong though. Did Ford modify its head, valve, or some other component going into the rebuild that will make a difference? The TSB actually indicates this may be the case as it says this only occurs in vehicles "built on or before 2/23/2016 …." So what did Ford change on that date that supposedly makes this no longer occur?

If the answer is - nothing - then why wouldn't this issue continue on beyond 2/23/2016 and into the 2017 models. If the answer is - something - then I resubmit my question. Does anyone have any credible evidence of a particular change made to the motor to make it not occur in 2017 models?
 
#4 ·
They do not replace the head, only the valves. They are not replacing the valves with the same ones, they are updated valves. There is also a PCM calibration update as well.

There has been no confirmation that this fix will last but this has been in the works for over a year so I am hopeful this will take care of the issue that some have had.

To say there is no fix is untrue. For techs to say it is the same thing, we'll that is untrue as well.
 
#5 ·
If there are new designed valves as you say, then I can agree that this MAY indeed be a "fix."

If you don't mind, would you please provide your source that the valves are redesigned (my techs clearly had no knowledge of this)? Perhaps personal knowledge (you've seen them) or second hand source (a formal communication from Ford)?

This is exactly the information I am seeking. Thank you in advance for the information.
 
#6 ·
Was told different part numbers. If they were the same valve, they would be the same part number.

The Part #s of the new valves are in the TSB where it lists every part needed.
 
#12 ·
Well, I've read hundreds of pages on this and other websites regarding this issue. Several posters with seemingly credible credentials have posted that there is in fact a "new" valve design. Yet NO ONE in those posts has provided credible evidence of having seen the newly designed valves (a picture would be nice) and I can't understand why a new design is needed given TSB 16-0041 and Ford's related response. Consider the following:

Ford engineers have apparently identified two types of trucks requiring two different fixes.

Truck A = a truck with the "old" valves which has not experienced the shakes. Ford states that a simple PCM update will ensure that Truck A will never experience the shakes, even though it keeps the "old" valves.

Truck B = a truck which has experienced the shakes. Ford states the PCM update AND replacing the valves is the only fix (suggesting valve damage during the shakes). But it stands to reason that Truck B could receive a fresh set of the "old" valves and the PCM update and be identical to Truck A.

I can't imagine Ford would redesign valves when they purport that trucks will work fine with a fresh set of the old valves and recalibration. It seems that Ford believes the issue was indeed calibration related, but that once the shakes occur they damaged the old valves to the extent that the problem would continue even after recalibration. Is there any other way to interpret Ford's response? So why all the BS about newly designed valves? It makes zero sense given Ford's response.
 
#13 ·
They've had lots of response.
I believe they are going with; if it hasn't happened yet, they want to change the thermal dynamics with a new flash. If it's not a recall how would one know to get the new flash before it gets the shakes?
I can understand not wanting to keep the old valves as they have been smacked. Although it's a pretty straight push geometry wise but should go.
I have not seen the new valves if they are new ones. I would use a mic to see if they tapered the stem down .0015 to the combustion end. Doing the opposite on the guide ( bell mouthing the combustion end has the same effect.

You said it perfectly that some dealer's never even heard of the condition, sooo, it's a frustrating mess for some.

Hijumper, you pull horses?
 
#38 ·
Dang man - that could be my truck right down to the color and it being a Platinum. Hope it turns out OK for you. I am happy that I have not experienced any of these issues.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Yepper, they have been smacking.
Did he pull the springs and feel the clearances?
So you like how ford painted your block?

It's painful to see your baby that way but if the tech knows what he is doing and careful, everything will be OK.

Slip that tech a few bucks to at least get some VHT primer on that block. That's how freeze plugs start leaking. That rust will creep right in under the seam and start spreading the two metals.

How much was your 6.7 option? Pretty weak not even spraying the block. " Weak" not my real choice of words but I'm watching my Ps and Qs
 
#24 ·
Ok,
Go to the very first set of photos.
Look at number 8 back cylinder. Look at piston at 11:00 o'clock. See the head bolt hole at 12:00 o'clock.
Use that bolt hole as a referrance point.

Now look at the head on the bench. It is sitting backwards or back to front position refeversed. Note contour of head and you will see it just positioned on the bench that way. So the cylinder on head by his hand in front is the back far right cylinder.
Now picture the head turned to be installed.
Now look at your bolt hole in head and block.
Walla! Bingo! Knocked off carbon and matching collision marks.

Go back to very first set, look for and how I said and you see it.

Would love to be able to explain over at FTE how to observe failure analysis photos, especially after having to have explain the condition and failure analysis. Explaining how to look at reversed and mirror imaging in the context of engine failure analysis for the true TRIFACTA in the face of,,,.we all know.. They do whatever it is they do over there, I do what I do at the best site, TDS and in Maryland. Send my regards, followers end up here and sign up with paid subscriptions.
 
#25 ·
Wharrell, thank you, you will be a great help here. Read my last post carefully!!
You circled the front cylinder on the head. The head is reversed on the bench.

Reread find my mirrored marks using the 12:00 position head bolt hole in head and on block to orient mark on piston and carbon layer chip off in relationship to that 12:00 bolt hole on the INBOARD side of head.
 
#26 ·
His wrist is over number 8 on the bench. Now find the bolt hole sitting at 12:00 in picture on that number 8 up by his wrist.
Now look at that bolt hole at 12:00 closet to cylinder. See that hole? Use it as a referrance point on the head and block.
Put it together and it all comes into focus like the confusing busy picture thing at the mall that comes into focus once stared at.
 
#28 ·
Good time to notice you need to paint that driveshaft even if you live in the desert. Shorter life and makes replacing those non greasable u joints easier. Just a tip for how you can make it ok before things get rough later. It's surface now so if you clean it up, use rusty metal primer and industrial paint on it, it will protect the shaft and make the replacement of the joints later easier or possible.
 
#36 ·
Hey was able to blow up the ones you did circle in the one you emailed.
Yeah boy, you blow it up and you can see the are roasted and have clear impact marks.
Thanks Wharell, you high tech wiz
You've been preaching that exhaust valves had your 'sticktion problem and were the culprit from exhaust regen combustion heat. So now you're saying intake valves are also the problem..?

Those are diffidently intake valves, with the marks you falsely claim are piston contact marks.

smh,,, jmo
 

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#30 ·
Im in on this one. hehehe
 
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