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6.7L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 12-01-2012, 11:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Pin weight will change depending on how you load them. Since the garage is at the back behind the axles, if you don't haul water and fuel, it can make you butt heavy.

My old fiver was 33' long and with a rear kitchen had a 60 gal fresh water tank aft of the axles. My dry pin was 1795, and if I filled the fresh water tank it got lighter.


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Old 12-03-2012, 07:35 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Ummm, you actually just sort of proved his "ridiculous logic"...unless your toy hauler is really heavy prior to loading the stuff you mentioned...like, around 15k before that stuff is added.
Are you talking to me? How in the world do you think I proved his "logic". That doesn't make any sense.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:25 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Are you talking to me? How in the world do you think I proved his "logic". That doesn't make any sense.
Yep...he said that toy haulers often have less pin weight than regular 5th wheel trailers. He did not say that once you load the trailer that the pin weight would go down.

Normally for a 5th wheel you would have 20-25% of the weight of the trailer on the pin. In your example, you said the pin weight of your trailer empty was 2640, and then once you loaded up all of the stuff the pin weight went up to 3450. So, an increase of approx 800lbs. However, what you loaded (150 gallons of water, 60 gallons of gas, 2 full size quads and a 2700lbs sand rail) weighs: water 150x8.35 = 1250, gas 60x6 = 360, sand rail = 2700, 2 full size quads 2x350 = 700. So, about 5010lbs, but let's just use 5000lbs.

Since you added 5000lbs of weight to the trailer but the pin weight only went up by 800lbs, that means that only 16% (800 divided by 5000) of your additional weight went onto the pin. That is well below the 20-25% range. So, depending on your trailer's weight before you load it, this could take your overall percentage below what you should have. Hence his statement that toy haulers often have a lower pin weight than a traditional 5er. Again, he did NOT say that once you load the toy hauler that the pin weight would go down. He just said that often a toy hauler has less weight on the pin than most trailers, due to how the weight is distributed.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:41 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Yep...he said that toy haulers often have less pin weight than regular 5th wheel trailers. He did not say that once you load the trailer that the pin weight would go down.

Normally for a 5th wheel you would have 20-25% of the weight of the trailer on the pin. In your example, you said the pin weight of your trailer empty was 2640, and then once you loaded up all of the stuff the pin weight went up to 3450. So, an increase of approx 800lbs. However, what you loaded (150 gallons of water, 60 gallons of gas, 2 full size quads and a 2700lbs sand rail) weighs: water 150x8.35 = 1250, gas 60x6 = 360, sand rail = 2700, 2 full size quads 2x350 = 700. So, about 5010lbs, but let's just use 5000lbs.

Since you added 5000lbs of weight to the trailer but the pin weight only went up by 800lbs, that means that only 16% (800 divided by 5000) of your additional weight went onto the pin. That is well below the 20-25% range. So, depending on your trailer's weight before you load it, this could take your overall percentage below what you should have. Hence his statement that toy haulers often have a lower pin weight than a traditional 5er. Again, he did NOT say that once you load the toy hauler that the pin weight would go down. He just said that often a toy hauler has less weight on the pin than most trailers, due to how the weight is distributed.
I am at 22% of pin weight when I am fully loaded.
Actually he did say "Toy haulers often have much lower pin weight than a traditional 5er, because heavy toys are added to the rear"

This is not true in either tow behinds or 5th wheel toy haulers.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I got 11.3 MPG this summer towing a 12,000 pound 5th wheel to Alaska and back. Speed was around 60. I can get 18 empty on the highway if I keep it around 60. Truck is 2011 F350 dually diesel.
I get about the same with my DP Tuner equiped '02 dually towing & hiway.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:27 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I am at 22% of pin weight when I am fully loaded.
Actually he did say "Toy haulers often have much lower pin weight than a traditional 5er, because heavy toys are added to the rear"

This is not true in either tow behinds or 5th wheel toy haulers.
You are correct, he did say that. I also said he did.

And while you may be at 22% of the total weight of your trailer on your pin (so loaded your trailer weighs approx. 15,700) MANY people do not load their toy haulers thinking about weight distribution and how it affects handling. A 15k lb trailer with 25% (3750lbs) pin weight handles differently than a 15k lb trailer with 18% (2700lbs) pin weight. Much more likely the trailer will cause sway in certain situations. And crazily enough I've seen a lot of trailers loaded that way. Apparently so has the other dude.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:46 AM   #37 (permalink)
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You are correct, he did say that. I also said he did.
I said that he said, that my cousin said, the his brother said that his dog said........ I think your signature fits you.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:45 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I said that he said, that my cousin said, the his brother said that his dog said........ I think your signature fits you.
That's why it is what it is
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:30 PM   #39 (permalink)
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As an experiment with my TH (and my previous truck) I weighed the pin using a scale made for that purpose.

This is my result.
Pin weight
Garage empty 2800
Bike only 2700
Golf cart and bike 2450

I figure the bike and cart each weigh about 800 pounds, but I can't reason why the drop in pin is not equal. Other then the fact that there may be a slight center of gravity issue as to where each item is loaded in the garage. My garage is only 10' so the COG shouldn't change too much.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:16 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Porthole,

If you had a single axle trailer and that axle was exactly centered between the pin and the center of mass of the bike/cart, the 800#cart/bike would take 800# off the pin. You will notice that most 5er axles are further towards the rear than centered so it will take less than 800# off the pin. Think about loading a wheel barrow. Put all the weight near the handles (far back from the wheel) and the load is heavy. Move some forward of the wheel and the weight lifted by the handles is less. So if the single axle is 2/3 towards the rear, adding 900# to the pin will take 300# off the pin.

A 5er with multiple axles complicates the single fulcrum of the wheel barrow comparison, but I think you can get the idea from it. Also, you know that one end of a golf cart is heavier than the other, so the pin shift would be affected differently if you backed the cart in versus drove straight in.

The big empty storage apace in the rear allows toy haulers to lift weight off the pin when you fill the space. Regular 5ers don't have much in the day of storage (inside or underneath) behind their axles, so adding "stuff" ends up with most of the added weight going to the pin. Using the single axle centered between the pin and rear of 5er, add 900# to a spot exactly half way between the axle and pin, and 450# is added to the pin. Add that 900# 2/3 of the way between the axle and the pin (this is the main basement compartment in most 5ers), and 600# ends up on the pin. This is why it is easy on a non-toy hauler to (sometimes grossly?) overload the pin and weight ratings of the TV yet still but under the GVWR (axle plus pin) of the trailer.


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Originally Posted by porthole View Post
As an experiment with my TH (and my previous truck) I weighed the pin using a scale made for that purpose.

This is my result.
Pin weight
Garage empty 2800
Bike only 2700
Golf cart and bike 2450

I figure the bike and cart each weigh about 800 pounds, but I can't reason why the drop in pin is not equal. Other then the fact that there may be a slight center of gravity issue as to where each item is loaded in the garage. My garage is only 10' so the COG shouldn't change too much.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:33 AM   #41 (permalink)
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What's that saying? Give me a big enough lever and I can move the world?
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #42 (permalink)
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If you had a single axle trailer and that axle was exactly centered
I'm well aware of the physics behind the fulcrum, I was just relaying an experiment I tried with my 2 axle trailer.

The discussion came up in my camping forum and since I had a pin weight scale I looked to see what the ratio was. Some claimed it was 1 for 1, which, given that the axles are not centered is impossible.


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Also, you know that one end of a golf cart is heavier than the other, so the pin shift would be affected differently if you backed the cart in versus drove straight in.
Since it is a 36 volt electric, the CoG is about centered.

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This is why it is easy on a non-toy hauler to (sometimes grossly?) overload the pin and weight ratings of the TV yet still but under the GVWR (axle plus pin) of the trailer.
Just as easy on a TH to overload, which is why I switched out to a DRW.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:19 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Mesteve,

to answer your original question, It is really not that big of a deal to drive a dually on a daily basis. My wife and I have both and even she prefers to drive the dually every day. She also tows and 40ft GN on a regular basis and just loves the stability of the dually over using the srw(both of our trucks are setup to tow).
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