6.7L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.
new turbo still have issue , found out someone flashed my truck as f450 not f350 witch has different turbos
No they didn't. The computer/operator not sure which.. has to put in your vin number. without it the computer won't update anything. And only the chassis cabs have different turbo. A F-450 pickup has the same turbo.
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2011 F-350 DRW 4X4 dark blue pearl/slate grey two tone Lariat ultimate. 3.73 limited slip 5th wheel prep/spray in bed liner. Named BRUTUS
After viewing the you tube video which led me here I was compelled to create an account and "jump in" feet first.
I am the owner of a 2012 F-350 which exhibited similar issues although did not seem to be as serious as some of which other owners are experiencing. Bear with me as this may be lengthy.
This is the first Ford truck I have owned. My initial impressions of this truck is that it is a beast-the harder you work it the more it likes it. My previous trucks were chevy/GMC with one Dodge 2003 Ram diesel thrown in the mix for good measure.
Our company had the pleasure of owning 2 of the first d/maxes produced in 2001. Nice trucks. Comfortable ride, good handling, smooth powertrain. Except for some issues-when I would shift from D to R (this was an intermittent problem) the driveline would BANG and the driveshaft appeared to rotate close to a full turn when this would happen. It felt like the rear end was falling out of the truck. The hotter the ambient temp the worse.
Then as I was bringing the truck in for a check engine light issue a few months after taking delivery, the trans began to puke oil out all over the service dept. floor. GM advised the dealer to "not release the truck until the condition was corrected." No kidding-what a bunch of genuises these guys were.This problem was attributed to a "porous transmission case" and was settled after a 3-4 day wait for parts and reassembly of the "bulletproof" Allison.
The check engine light was an "injector pump" issue. Wow. Brand new GMC with supposedly the highest quality fuel injection components from Bosch. I must say though, after the pump was replaced it really ran like a raped ape.
So far, no problems with our selling dealer's service department. Except for the driveline "BANG".
After repeated attempts to convince the service department that there was an issue with my truck (the condition happened at a local Ford dealer when we were seriously thinking of trading it and the Ford dealer said "no way I want that truck on my lot") and I begged to have a rep look at this thing, the dealer in his infinite wisdom said that the truck was operating as ( "it should-or as designed) and that no further action was required.
So my next step was to open a case with General Messup. After all the go-rounds they told me that the dealer stated that the truck was normal and the area rep said that there would be no action taken. I asked these mental giants if it was normal for a truck to sound like the rear end and or trans would be laying on the ground after shifting to reverse. They then informed us of their buyback program,ya da yada, typical bull crap. Needless to say the truck remained in our fleet for years and finally was traded off on this new F-350.
There were many reasons we decided to purchase the Ford, the first being the interior spaciousness and comfort, especially compared to the GM. Some other reasons were mutual friends owned recent Fords (diesels), 2010 and 2011, and experienced no significant chassis or driveline issues at all. Minor leaks on the 2010 which were corrected after a few tries, but nothing major.
The first few days with the truck were awesome. I did notice an erratic shifting pattern and the trans banging into reverse intermittently.I also noticed the rough idle at regen. ( I didn't know the rough idle was regen related so I became extremely concerned about this). My mind wandered towards injector issues. I let this go for a while and thought about taking care of it at the first service which was performed at about 5400 miles.
My servicing dealer, Greenway Ford addressed the issues with a reflash, TSB 12-5-12. The mechanic took the time to explain that the reflash included a learning process for the transmission, as I had also stated the 2-3 shift was sluggish. Since then, the truck has performed very well, the only thing I have noticed is a bit of "turbo lag" at lower engine rpm and various throttle positions. I have not addressed this yet as my next service is due here soon.
I must say the experience with the Ford (and dealer so far) has been nothing short of excellent. The truck is solid as a rock compared to the GMC, the interior is much more spacious, comfortable and in it's own way, ruggedly stylish and the compliments I recieve far outnumber any during the GMC ownership period. When my servicing dealer performed the tire rotation they even took the time to use a torque wrench on the aluminum wheels, which I haven't seen done in years.
I hope that this positive experience continues as I am absolutely enjoying the F-350 over all the other trucks I have driven and will continue to watch this forum for these update results on other trucks.
I was also told by another fellow Ford owner that his transmission problem was related to a front seal that was a fraction of an inch off or something to that effect. Just sayin'.
Strait, I'm definitely not saying that anyone is perfect, especially Ford.
I remember back in the 70's when Ford had nothing but electrical issues, especially their ignition modules that consistently burned out. Back in the day I was employed by a few independent shops, so I have seen my share of Ford, Mopar and GM screw ups.
I definitely do let my dealer know about issues with my vehicle as well as improvements that could be made from a consumer's viewpoint. The owner attends factory seminars that ask for consumer feedback from their dealers.
So getting problems solved always starts with the dealer. The quality of repairs starts there. Along with that factory support is crucial to successful repairs. And of course routine maintenance. I've always believed in it.
My local dealer is awesome! The fact that their hands are bound by Detroit and are actually told "do not touch this vehicle with regards to the original customer complaint" - is deplorable customer service (by corporate).
I started this thread roughly a year ago. In that time, I've researched and spoken with many fellow owners about these problems. I believe there are a couple of causes for the surge/shudder that are independent of one another. For some folks, new software reprograms combined with new turbos, new torque converters or new injectors have solved their respective issues.
There is no question that we are the minority and the majority of dealers are NOT familiar with these problems.
For me, in the past 12 months, the following have been replaced:
I don't know if MY issue is mechanical in nature...Is mine fixed? I don't know yet...I just picked it up again from the dealer after my 60th day out of service. I consider myself lucky though because I have a very helpful and responsive dealer. I feel bad for those of you who have to fight to make progress at the dealership level.
The only way that these issues will be addressed is that if Ford has enough relevant data captured on vehicle data recorders. The quickest way to do this is the folowing:
-ask that your dealer service manager involve your regional FSE (field service engineer). If they won't, send Cory a message (Ford employee/customer service on this forum)
-then ask for a VDR (vehicle data recorder) to be installed in your truck and log the data when the problem occurs.
-suggest that your FSE consult with his/her regional counterparts regarding this data after you have captured the data
I'll post again after I've logged more miles with my new injectors and new software update.
Good luck to everyone.
11/25/12: The injectors did not fix the problem. A couple of weeks ago, they replaced the right cylinder head block. Apparently, they (Ford) believe there is an exhaust valve sticking before, during or immediately following REGEN. I have not had the shudder since...however, two days ago, the truck started leaking oil all over the driveway.
I'm trading this thing in for a new 2012 job 2 F350 or new Ram HD....anyone have experience or problems with either of these?
I am a certified ford diesel mechanic and the biggest problem is that the shudder and shift flares are two separate issues. Even if the both happen at the same time, two separate modules and programming codes are the problem. The root of these problems is that Ford never tells us what they are up to. If your truck is throwing a code for "maf air correlation" do not read beyond this point, it does not apply to you.
Problem 1: The shudder. The shudder typically occurs on vehicles that are not worked, and are pickup models only! ( not cab and chassis, they use a different turbo. ) It happens going up a small hill, under very light throttle ( 16% to 20% ), in 6th gear with the truck typically unloaded. This engine produces 400hp / 800ftlbs and is designed to be worked. Its components and programming are designed to be worked, and NO late model diesels (power strokes, duramax or cummins) like to be run as a daily driver, the emission standards have these engines running too lean to service that purpose. If you choose to drive this way, these things can help. There is an updated turbo part number. These are the exactly same turbo, but tested to tighter specs, this only fixes the problem 1% of the time. The best action is drive the truck harder, but if you choose to bring it to the dealer; here is what must be done: 1. Verify the IDS ( Ford program on the laptop ) is at least XX.05 or newer. Many techs do not update their software, which caused alot of problems with these trucks. 2. Using the updated IDS and a VCM II perform the 12B33 program. It updates the PCM, TCM, NOX and Growplug module. If the IDS has not been updated, then this program has to be done again. 3. clear all codes, not just the ones in the PCM, many techs miss this step and U-codes ( network error type ) will cause problems. 4. reset adaptive tables, ESPECIALLY fuel tables, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! 5. Drive truck 10miles, monitor Nox, and SCR injector duty cycle PIDS to verify emissions performance. This works every time to fix the drivability issue.
Problem 2: Shift and Reverse issues. 95% it is cause by bad programing. See previous paragraph on how to perform 12b33. After performing 12b33, reset ALL learned tables, engine fuel, NOX, trans, DPF, SCR, EVERYTHING! and test drive for at least 10miles. During this test drive, drive the truck HARD. This will give the modules the full range of input values it could possibly see, which will make it much more unlike to throw erroneous codes, especially p207F. This will also force the computer to effectively start fresh with the new software and start learning how you drive your truck. After these steps have been completed, wait at least 100miles before bringing the truck back to the dealer.
__________________ '99 F350 4x4 4R100. K & N air filter, Banks power elbow and down pipe, 4" monster exhaust, 2" lift.
Mine shuddered and shifted like crap. It would not shift into rev or drive without a delay. All this towing a 14k 5th wheel 3 weekends a month. Never threw any codes except for the now sensor. They tried to many times to reprogram the truck but it never worked. Fords area rep was all over my truck and was given every excuse in the book,IE nothing fixed. Non of the excuses were accurate. Heres what fixed the problems.
1- replace 3 selenoids
2-replace and reprogram nox module and sensor
3-replace tran pump
It took many trips to the dealer due to a lack of knowledge by the mechanics and ford techs. Some of which were because of incompetence and some because its a new product. After 2 years the truck finally performs normally.
I drive it as a daily driver during the week and as a tow vehicle during the week.
Truck works great!
I am a certified ford diesel mechanic and the biggest problem is that the shudder and shift flares are two separate issues. Even if the both happen at the same time, two separate modules and programming codes are the problem. The root of these problems is that Ford never tells us what they are up to. If your truck is throwing a code for "maf air correlation" do not read beyond this point, it does not apply to you.
Problem 1: The shudder. The shudder typically occurs on vehicles that are not worked, and are pickup models only! ( not cab and chassis, they use a different turbo. ) It happens going up a small hill, under very light throttle ( 16% to 20% ), in 6th gear with the truck typically unloaded. This engine produces 400hp / 800ftlbs and is designed to be worked. Its components and programming are designed to be worked, and NO late model diesels (power strokes, duramax or cummins) like to be run as a daily driver, the emission standards have these engines running too lean to service that purpose. If you choose to drive this way, these things can help. There is an updated turbo part number. These are the exactly same turbo, but tested to tighter specs, this only fixes the problem 1% of the time. The best action is drive the truck harder, but if you choose to bring it to the dealer; here is what must be done: 1. Verify the IDS ( Ford program on the laptop ) is at least XX.05 or newer. Many techs do not update their software, which caused alot of problems with these trucks. 2. Using the updated IDS and a VCM II perform the 12B33 program. It updates the PCM, TCM, NOX and Growplug module. If the IDS has not been updated, then this program has to be done again. 3. clear all codes, not just the ones in the PCM, many techs miss this step and U-codes ( network error type ) will cause problems. 4. reset adaptive tables, ESPECIALLY fuel tables, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! 5. Drive truck 10miles, monitor Nox, and SCR injector duty cycle PIDS to verify emissions performance. This works every time to fix the drivability issue.
Problem 2: Shift and Reverse issues. 95% it is cause by bad programing. See previous paragraph on how to perform 12b33. After performing 12b33, reset ALL learned tables, engine fuel, NOX, trans, DPF, SCR, EVERYTHING! and test drive for at least 10miles. During this test drive, drive the truck HARD. This will give the modules the full range of input values it could possibly see, which will make it much more unlike to throw erroneous codes, especially p207F. This will also force the computer to effectively start fresh with the new software and start learning how you drive your truck. After these steps have been completed, wait at least 100miles before bringing the truck back to the dealer.
Thanks for adding your experience and suggestions, MemphisCountry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiro
Mine shuddered and shifted like crap. It would not shift into rev or drive without a delay. All this towing a 14k 5th wheel 3 weekends a month. Never threw any codes except for the now sensor. They tried to many times to reprogram the truck but it never worked. Fords area rep was all over my truck and was given every excuse in the book,IE nothing fixed. Non of the excuses were accurate. Heres what fixed the problems.
1- replace 3 selenoids
2-replace and reprogram nox module and sensor
3-replace tran pump
It took many trips to the dealer due to a lack of knowledge by the mechanics and ford techs. Some of which were because of incompetence and some because its a new product. After 2 years the truck finally performs normally.
I drive it as a daily driver during the week and as a tow vehicle during the week.
Truck works great!
I'm glad to hear that your truck is treating you well, chiro. If you ever need any assistance in the future, I'm just a PM away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredfields
How do we reset the tables or must the dealer do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hdslider
Dealer must do it. It is outlined in most tsbs. But a lot of techs dont read.
Hi retiredfields and Hdslider,
If you ever have difficulty getting your vehicle serviced or getting a particular task performed, please don't hesitate to contact me. I'm always willing to see how I can help.
So essentially in a nutshell, you can't daily drive these trucks, can't drive at slow speeds including stop signs, traffic lights and congested roadways, and must be loaded to the gills everytime you drive these trucks? My truck has had all these issues and the dealers and FSTs couldn't fix or reprogram these. It does it towing, and unloaded. Fords answers to this about our driving habits is total BS. If these trucks can't handle and drive appropriately in the above situations, Ford has some explaining to do. Ford never told me I couldn't do the above except when
I started having all issues which was coincidentally the 1st day I owned the truck. I was told this by my regional CSR. It was also never implied to buy another car to daily drive since that's apparently taboo for this magnificent engine/ trans combo. Ford is making every excuse to not stand behind these engineering problems, blaming the customers for how and why they drive these $50k+ trucks and wonder why we complain about it not working right. Why do only some techs know how to fix these problems? I do appreciate the insight from the techs position, but for me and many others on here that have commented and lurked around, it's too little too late. Ford shot themselves in the foot. Too bad.
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'99 F350 4x4 4R100. K & N air filter, Banks power elbow and down pipe, 4" monster exhaust, 2" lift.
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