Per dealership don't use synthetic oil in 6.7L?? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.7L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Per dealership don't use synthetic oil in 6.7L??

I normally change my own oil and I use Shell Rotella T6. I realize from reading several of the posts on here there are many of you as well that use this oil. I just went to Walmart and picked up my oil and filter and my oil change costs me about $90. I decided to call the dealership and see what they now charge for a full synthetic oil change to see if the savings is worth my time. I was quoted $221 for a synthetic blended oil change with an oil additive (for lower operating temps per quote). I was told from the "shop foremen" a bulletin was written by Ford to the dealerships indicating for them not to use a full synthetic oil because it does not properly lubricate the top end of the engine and the Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 does not have the required detergents the engine needs contrary to the label.

I explained how my diesel supplement manual calls for 5w-40 under there severe service due to my driving conditions, which was itemized in that manual and I was just following the manufacturer recommendations. Once again I was told the newest info is use a synthetic blend and not use 5w-40.

So I am reaching out to all of you to see if anyone else has heard this and am I ok still using the Rotella T6 (5w-40) or should I switch to the Rotella T5 (10w-40). I am hoping someone who works at a dealership or anyone can confirm or deny what I was told.
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post #2 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 04:39 AM
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The new CK-4 rated oil is the concern of Ford. The CJ-4 rated oil is ok.

Check this thread for a discussion on the new oil rating

Ford's new list wws m2c171f1 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums
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post #3 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 08:23 AM
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Ford Motor Company discovered that some of the CK-4 oils with lower phosphorous levels do not provide the same anti-wear protection as the CJ-4. They discovered premature wear in testing of the oils. Ford has developed a new motor oil CK-4 specification for all of their engines with the WSS-M2C171-F1 specification and will be available early this year. Until then and as the CJ-4 oils are phased out you should continue to use the CJ-4 oils. Going forward be sure to read the label carefully and be sure to use oils with the specification whether it be Motorcraft or another brand.


https://youtu.be/NsZJhOAfwgk
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post #4 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ford_doctor View Post
Ford Motor Company discovered that some of the CK-4 oils with lower phosphorous levels do not provide the same anti-wear protection as the CJ-4. They discovered premature wear in testing of the oils. Ford has developed a new motor oil CK-4 specification for all of their engines with the WSS-M2C171-F1 specification and will be available early this year. Until then and as the CJ-4 oils are phased out you should continue to use the CJ-4 oils. Going forward be sure to read the label carefully and be sure to use oils with the specification whether it be Motorcraft or another brand.


https://youtu.be/NsZJhOAfwgk
Yep the doc is correct. They don't want the new oil used in ANY ford diesel.Hmm, buy ford only oil.
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post #5 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the replies. I spent the morning reading all about it.
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post #6 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:21 AM
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So is T6 ok to use?

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post #7 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 09:15 AM
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If older CJ-4 then yes, if new CK-4 then it is NO.


THIS IS SPECULATION BASED ON 35 YEARS IN AUTO INDUSTRY WITH A MANUFACTURER!

The ramp down of some metal additives that provide increased resistance to wear for wiping contact components (rocker arm to valve stem for instance) given that DPF cleaning introduces some fuel dilution that also has adverse effects on these parts, likely puts the new oils off the list. Other additives exist that offer similar protections but that is not apparently in many oils now.

Ford oils do not meet CK-4 according to specs on Motorcraft Parts website.

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post #8 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 12:21 PM
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Rotella doesn't make the list for 5W40. If you want to run 15W40, then Rotella is fine.


If you google WSS-M2C171-F1, you can go to a Ford Motorcraft site that lists the brands approved to meet this spec.


Looks like I will be switching on the next oil change.


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post #9 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 02:41 PM
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Ford was SO late in the CK-4 game to step up and state that CK-4 oils do not meet the wear specification for their engines (were they sleeping during the past 4 years?). Then to suddenly create a new specification a few weeks before CK-4 debuted in the marketplace is pretty lame in my book. The current spec for the 2015 and 2016 MY 6.7L Powerstrokes is WSS-M2C171E and very few CJ-4 oils meet that specification. In the mainstream oils that I have used (Rotella T6 5W-40, Kendall Super-Dxa 15W-40, Delo 400 LE 5W-40, Delo 400 XLE 10W-30, and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40) only the Rotella T6 and Kendall have the Ford specification (WSS-M2C171E), but obviously all of them meet API CJ-4 which is what is really required.

My guess is not many of the majors will carry the new specification (WSS-M2C171-F1) either, but I did read a few articles online where Shell stated they were working with Ford to meet the new specification so time will tell. In the end, unless Ford is going to give oil away for free, they will have to get with the program because CJ-4 will go the way of the dodo bird and CK-4 will take over. It is ironic to me that all of the OTR diesels have accepted CK-4, but Ford does not. I have enough CJ-4 on the shelf to last quite a while so hopefully the majors will either meet the new Ford specification or Ford will concede in some way.


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post #10 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 04:28 PM
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I must correct my previous post.

My 2012 owners manual also states WSS-M2C171-E is the spec that is supposed to go in my truck.

Rotella T6 meets this spec according to Shell's information.
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post #11 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 04:31 PM
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For the time being, I have enough Rotella T6 and Valvoline Blue 4w40 for 3 oil changes. Maybe in the meantime, Ford will get their act together and finalize the oil specs.
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post #12 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcklnhunter View Post
I normally change my own oil and I use Shell Rotella T6. I realize from reading several of the posts on here there are many of you as well that use this oil. I just went to Walmart and picked up my oil and filter and my oil change costs me about $90. I decided to call the dealership and see what they now charge for a full synthetic oil change to see if the savings is worth my time. I was quoted $221 for a synthetic blended oil change with an oil additive (for lower operating temps per quote). I was told from the "shop foremen" a bulletin was written by Ford to the dealerships indicating for them not to use a full synthetic oil because it does not properly lubricate the top end of the engine and the Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 does not have the required detergents the engine needs contrary to the label.

I explained how my diesel supplement manual calls for 5w-40 under there severe service due to my driving conditions, which was itemized in that manual and I was just following the manufacturer recommendations. Once again I was told the newest info is use a synthetic blend and not use 5w-40.

So I am reaching out to all of you to see if anyone else has heard this and am I ok still using the Rotella T6 (5w-40) or should I switch to the Rotella T5 (10w-40). I am hoping someone who works at a dealership or anyone can confirm or deny what I was told.
As outlined in the owners manual I have been using 10W30 Ford Diesel oil and change it every 5K. I have to say after 105K she runs like a charm. (Knock on wood) I think the quick change shops are only interested in pumping up the price and why they only list synthetic.
My suggestion is to use what the manufacturer recommends since it is what the engine was designed for and what it was tested using.
Unfortunately 10W30 has been getting hard to find so I have it done at Ford or I end up doing it myself. In my neck of the woods Walmart has the best price in town.
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post #13 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 10:58 PM
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Per dealership don't use synthetic oil in 6.7L??

I may be a little confused here. I thought CK/4 is backwards compatible with CJ/4. But the new FA/4 spec for 2017 model year trucks is not compatible with either.
Ok, wait I just read another article about Ford saying CK/4 is not ok for CJ/4.

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Last edited by Azrael15; 01-16-2017 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Learned more
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post #14 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 07:52 PM
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If you want to follow Ford's advice, don't use Rotella T6 on the shelf after October 2016 (all T6 in the new bottles is CK4, even though it says CJ4 on bottle), as Ford thinks it has too little P for adequate wear protection.

If you want to use a 5w40 that Ford thinks is ok, easiest acceptable ones to get are either Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 or Mystik 5w40. These two 5w40 HDEOs are still CJ4 (and, importantly, aren't changing to CK4), and have more than 1000 ppm phosphorous (P) and are OK per Ford.

Ford has testing ongoing and hopefully will approve more 5w40s this Spring. Many more 10w30 and 15w40 oils are already on their approved list.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...SSM2C171F1.pdf

Ford statement:

Ford Motor Company CK-4/FA-4 Ford Position Statement
Starting on December 1, 2016 the American Petroleum Institute (API) will begin licensing
two new diesel motor categories CK-4 and FA-4. API CK-4 is being released to replace
CJ-4. FA-4 is a low viscosity diesel oil released for diesel engines designed for a lower
viscosity oil.
API FA-4
Due to its low viscosity FA-4 should not be used in any Ford diesel vehicles at this time.
API CK-4
Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines,
new or old. Testing Ford has done on some CK-4 formulations have shown inadequate
wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016.
Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification,
Ford will now be recommending oils that meet an OEM specification, Ford Material
Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil showing
that it meets this specification.
An oil showing CJ-4 in the API donut without showing CK-4 would be acceptable for
service even if not showing WSS-M2C171-F1. This oil would most likely be an older CJ-
4 formulation, developed and licensed prior to 2016. These oils could be around for
about a year after CK-4 licensing begins, December 1, 2016. Field experience and Ford
testing has shown that these older CJ-4 formulations provide acceptable 6.7L engine
protection.
To insure you protect your Ford diesel engine use an oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C171-F1 like Motorcraft Super Duty Motor oil.
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Last edited by Claluja; 01-18-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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post #15 of 72 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 08:14 PM
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For the time being, I have enough Rotella T6 and Valvoline Blue 4w40 for 3 oil changes. Maybe in the meantime, Ford will get their act together and finalize the oil specs.
how sad is this situation?
Really?
Nice! Everybody start dosing oil with Liquimoly oil additive( suspended moly in base oil). Couple years from now we will pumping grease in.
I'm old tired and I'm going to........ I don't know pre computer something...fade into sunset.
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