6.7L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.
I am not bashing the idea, actually I think it's great but I do have a few questions. I live and work in the cold, I know the answers are out there...
1. Will the urea fluid freeze
2. If so at what temp?
3. I would assume that there is a fluid warmer in the tank?
4. Does the truck have full power when the fluid is cold/ frozen?
I am not bashing the idea, actually I think it's great but I do have a few questions. I live and work in the cold, I know the answers are out there...
1. Will the urea fluid freeze
2. If so at what temp?
3. I would assume that there is a fluid warmer in the tank?
4. Does the truck have full power when the fluid is cold/ frozen?
Thanks
Yes
-12F
Yes
Yes - it is warmed up. If you run out, the engine goes into limp-back mode.
Yes
-12F
Yes
Yes - it is warmed up. If you run out, the engine goes into limp-back mode.
To correct and add to flighterdoc's post (no disrespect intended)
Yes, it will freeze and the Motorcraft PM-27 Diesel Exhaust Fluid has a freeze point of 12 degrees and the system has a heater in the tank which is powered by the Glow Plug Control Module. Since cold engine operation will not typically require NOx reduction, frozen fluid will not affect engine performance. Additionally, the PCM monitors the DEF temperature and the SCR sytem will not be active until the fluid reaches a minimum temperature therefore under normal conditions, cold weather will have no affect on engine performance where the SCR sytem is concerned.
However, when the fluid level is low the message center on the instrument cluster will give you a warning and DEF should be added. If ignored the engine will operate with reduced power idle until fluid is added and eventually the engine will only idle. Additionally, if the PCM detects elevated NOx levels in the exhaust after refilling the tank it concludes that the incorrect fluid is installed in the vehicle. (yes, that means you can't pee in the tank guys) When this occurs the engine will only idle.
__________________ . Ford Master Diesel Technician Diesel Technician Society
Last edited by ford_doctor; 03-10-2010 at 07:45 PM.
Hallelujah! Another sensor to fail and leave us on the side of the road! Can't see any problems coming from this! I hope DEF is "WIDELY" available.
Maybe the - in -12f isn't negative. Maybe it's just a dash, because the next line says -32%, and I'm pretty sure I don't know what -32% is.
But then again I don't understand several things in that Doc.
Like why is NH3(ammonia) called Urea(NH2)? From a farming standpoint, I think Urea is 45% Nitrogen. I use it alot on corn. I don't think I'm spreeding ammonia on my corn. Am I?!?
2006 F350 CC LWB Dually XLT Oxford white manual 4x4 6.0 PSD 6 speed. 4.10 LS front and rear, Built May05. 4" turbo back, 55 gal aux fuel tank. A real pig from a stop, give me 15' and she'll slowly come to life, then watch out!
165K miles, 12 injectors, EGR cooler, Fuel pump, 8 glow plugs, GPCM, FICM rebuilt FoMoCo engine at 150K under 7/200 warranty.
I glanced though that quickly and didn't see it but my guess is that there is a misprint in it. Like Alex mentioned ALL of the training material we have on it states 12 degrees as does the product spec sheet. We have some in stock at the dealer, perhaps the labeling will have this information on it as well.
__________________ . Ford Master Diesel Technician Diesel Technician Society
Hallelujah! Another sensor to fail and leave us on the side of the road! Can't see any problems coming from this! I hope DEF is "WIDELY" available.
Maybe the - in -12f isn't negative. Maybe it's just a dash, because the next line says -32%, and I'm pretty sure I don't know what -32% is.
But then again I don't understand several things in that Doc.
Like why is NH3(ammonia) called Urea(NH2)? From a farming standpoint, I think Urea is 45% Nitrogen. I use it alot on corn. I don't think I'm spreeding ammonia on my corn. Am I?!?
Could be a misprint.
Anyway, urea is a molecule with two NH2 groups, each bound to a Carbon atom, which is itself double bound to an Oxygen atom. The Carbon=Oxygen 'moiety' is a carbonyl group and the NH2 group is an amine group....the correct formula for it would be (NH2)2CO.
Ammonia is NH3, three hydrogen atoms sharing electrons with a Nitrogen atom. It's used as a fertilizer because it degrades into the nitrogen that your corn needs.
Anyway, one thing I don't like is the location of the DEF fill. If it only needs to be filled at every oil change, why put the fill of this very corrosive material in the fuel filler door? How long before some yahoo puts diesel in it? Seems like a pretty poor location to me.
Last edited by flighterdoc; 03-10-2010 at 11:29 PM.
Anyway, one thing I don't like is the location of the DEF fill. If it only needs to be filled at every oil change, why put the fill of this very corrosive material in the fuel filler door? How long before some yahoo puts diesel in it? Seems like a pretty poor location to me.
I thought the very same thing but the other way around. Accidents do happen but given the different sizes and the distinct blue cap it would have to be a pretty conscious accident. Now, if someone were to put up to 5 gallons of DEF in the fuel tank how long do you think someone would ignore the WIF light and how long before the DEF makes it to the fuel pump and injectors before the engine stops running. Ohhh, the potential for ugliness!
__________________ . Ford Master Diesel Technician Diesel Technician Society
Don't let stupid people drive your truck! Or go buy a dodge if you can't handle this chore! lmao
I'm sorry,but if you can't pay attention to which hole your putting your Nozzle in(that sounded kinky) You or whom ever, should NOT be driving! Pay attention to what the hell your doing!
But, i do agree...since it only needs to be filled about every oil change,why not put the filler under the hood in the corner somewhere, makes sense?
But,here we go again...what if someone mistakens that Hole for the windshield washer fluid or trans fluid or oil or coolant...Hmmm...maybe we should leave it out by the fuel inlet,its a 25% less chance a wizard would put urea in his or her diesel But,maybe they designed this stuff, so just in case it did get in your diesel, it would mix with certain amount of diesel. LMAO...it would be like a pre-mix 2 stroke, but with DEF and diesel. lol
But,yeah..i'm sure some genius will do this! You can not make everything stupid proof in this world!
I myself, along with lots others..probably end up buying it in the Gal. format...I think i would feel safer this way...instead of this sitting in a tank underground, at some Putt's of a gas station...who says..Yeah....its FRESH!lmao
DEF is +12F freezing, BUT PowerstrokeHD said there is a winterized version of the DEF to like -20F
Last edited by bigbuckmiddaugh; 03-11-2010 at 07:28 AM.
Simple answer to the DEF filler location....locking cap!! Something tells me that even if you wanted to try and fill it with diesel, the larger filler spout on the stations diesel pump would not fit in it.
I wonder why this tank wouldn't be under the hood? If the recommended service interval will be every oil change, why wouldn't it be in that department (under the hood)?
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Or go buy a dodge if you can't handle this chore! lmao
But,maybe they designed this stuff, so just in case it did get in your diesel, it would mix with certain amount of diesel. LMAO...it would be like a pre-mix 2 stroke, but with DEF and diesel. lol
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