6.7L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.7L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2011-Up Super Duty trucks. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.7L Power Stroke engine.
What happens when there's a heavy load, such as during towing, or a power increase (or both), is that the lockup clutch in the converter slips excessively during lockup engagement. Sometimes this excessive slippage can be felt in the vehicle as a shudder as the clutch tries to engage, then slips, tries to engage, etc. If the load is really high, the lockup clutch can even be over-powered and begin to slip after engagement is achieved. Such slippage accelerates wear of the clutch friction surfaces, and of course, excessive heat is generated. The more the lockup clutch wears, the more it slips. In addition, the more the friction surfaces wear, the more clutch "dust" goes into the transmission fluid, which is shared with the transmission itself. All of this can lead to some very expensive repair work, including a new torque converter and possibly a new transmission.
So everyone is looking in the wrong place when they are changing driveline angles, which coincidentally changes when the shudder takes place. They are also looking in the wrong place when they replace the driveshaft with the updated "heavy duty" one and the problem goes away all together. Someone needs to let them all know that they are all wrong, they have bad torque converters.
So everyone is looking in the wrong place when they are changing driveline angles, which coincidentally changes when the shudder takes place. They are also looking in the wrong place when they replace the driveshaft with the updated "heavy duty" one and the problem goes away all together. Someone needs to let them all know that they are all wrong, they have bad torque converters.
I forgot you know it all.... Excuse me for you are the master mechanic LOL!
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2011 F250 6.7, 6" Pro Comp lift, 35x12.50 on KMC Misfit's, Rhino liner
OK everyone, follow up to my driveline vibration issue when towing:
When I originlly discussed this problem with my dealer, Ford told them to install the shim kit on the rear end.
I discussed this further with my service manager and informed him that this appeared to be a "band aid" fix (due to research here and with other trusted Ford techs) and asked that the upgraded driveline be installed. After discussing the problem with Ford, a new driveline was ordered and installed. This appears to be the part number- BC3Z-4R602-MP.
Please verify this with your dealer before asking them to order this driveline.
Finally had the chance to tow heavy (10-11k) last couple of days. Feels like a whole new truck. Even unloaded. Vibration on takeoff while towing solved on my truck.
Every vehicle has issues, no doubt, but so far I would never go back to any other Heavy Duty pickup after jumping into the seat of this Ford. It is the boss. 17k on the odometer so far and all is well.
Tony M 6.7 - I'm glad to hear that you no longer have the vibration problem and that Ford's updated drive line did the trick. Now enjoy that beautiful truck.
I have been reading the threads about the transmission this and that ??? My truck was a week and a half old when I hooked up the fiver and it shuddered the first time that I moved the trailer - it's not the transmission.
I also have shudder when towing fifth wheel 15.5k and 3100 pin.I have installed air bags which helped but still there.Dealer at first said could not confirm issue.Took trailer in and took tech for ride and issue was noted and told to bring truck back and leave it for them to work on.Left for 2 days went back and was told they could not duplicate problem.After a conversation with manager and contact with Ford through this forum was told it was a problem with all trucks not just Ford and would have to live with it.They did not look at again.I am now getting a vibration all the time had tires rotated and balanced with no change. One thing I have had trailer and truck weighed by wheel and am within all weight ratings.Going to take in to have looked at.I am in Bushnell Fl for next 2 months any sugestions for dealer?
Cory got me in touch with Ford Consumer Care and I now have a case number. I was scheduled to bring in my truck AND trailer to confirm the issue, which is a real big issue since I am a fulltimer in my RV.....yada...
I spoke with the service manager at the local dealer. He originally told me he had not heard of this problem before. He consulted a Ford engineer and reported back that there was nothing wrong (Like any one would fess up to there being any issues). Next I was directed to a shop foreman who said he had heard of this issue many times and that I didn't really need to bring in my truck and trailer to prove that I had a vibration. He did say that they could only shim the rear end. But, this may create a vibration while unloaded. I was told that they could not get authorization to put in a part that was not originally designed and intended as a stock item on a F-350. I was also told that I was driving my truck under extreme conditions and just had to live with it. Thus, no drive shaft will be installed. I have ordered and will install air bags. If I have the vibration after such, then I would think that the shimming would not be a viable option since I would have taken the sag issue out of the equation. I am glad to see a part number listed on this forum. That will be my next option. Just wish we didn't have to jump thru so many hoops to get a truck that will pull (within the rated amounts) without issues. I really think that the vibraitions will lead to other issues and repairs down the line when I am out of warranty. Kind of funny how the 100K drive train on diesels was dropped to 60K from the 2011 year onward.
One more update, part number (BC3Z-4R602-MP) is for a SWR. The DWR requires a
BC3Z-4R602-MM which is a little more than double the SWR part. I was also told this was the original part installed on 2011 DWR. Would like to have someone else verify this.
One more update, part number (BC3Z-4R602-MP) is for a SWR. The DWR requires a
BC3Z-4R602-MM which is a little more than double the SWR part. I was also told this was the original part installed on 2011 DWR. Would like to have someone else verify this.
I have my servicing dealer looking into this for my truck. I have a dually with this issue and will throw the part number his way to see what he comes up with.
Just a question, and apologies if I missed reading all the threads:
I just had my truck into the dealer to have an oil leak fixed in the rear diff, they replaced the pinion seal and re-sealed the cover (under warranty). I'm wondering if the occasional shudder that I get when hauling contributed to the seal leak. I have a 2011 F-450, it hauls a 13,500 lb. fifth wheel with a pin weight of about 2,600 lb.
Unless you have the shutter on takeoff a lot of the time, I doubt it. There is a lot of discussion about where the shutter originates (axle wrap for instance). If that is source of shutter, then premature seal failure might be related.
I am a bit over 3k pin, and bumper sagged
4 inches with load, and shuttered at just about every stop sign takeoff until I added airbags. Airbags eliminated the sag 90 percent of shutter, but still had it on steep startouts from stop. Ford replaced my driveshaft assembly with the new one. Enclosed are pictures of whay I think has changde - the carrier bearing or its composition.
There may be othe things that changed, but because of the new carrier components, the entire shaft had to be replaced.
The harmonic balencer on the differential end seems no larger than before, but I failed to measure in advance. I also did not measure the dimension of the shaft itself. Bulking up on one or both of them would help dampen any shutter. However, I think the carrier is a true bearing now so the loose component has been eliminated.
The carrier bearing being the source of the shutter is not a given, but this is the first year (I think) that you can't greese the 450's slip joint behind the carrier bearing. This may be because today's 450 is really a 350 TowBoss, lacking the 12,500 rear axle and brakes. Regardless, posts elsewhere suggested that removing the driveshaft and di-assembling seal, and manually greasing the slip joint removes the shutter. A lousey solution for a $60k truck, but something to remember if this problem surfaces after warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almcc
Just a question, and apologies if I missed reading all the threads:
I just had my truck into the dealer to have an oil leak fixed in the rear diff, they replaced the pinion seal and re-sealed the cover (under warranty). I'm wondering if the occasional shudder that I get when hauling contributed to the seal leak. I have a 2011 F-450, it hauls a 13,500 lb. fifth wheel with a pin weight of about 2,600 lb.
as far as the rear diff seal goes, I replaced mine only to have it go out again at about 500 miles. It turns out that the bearings wore out. So I replaced all the diff bearings and seal. No problems there anymore. So it you are having rear diff input seal leaks then check the bearings too, save yourself time. Like I said before my 04 had the shudder but after it was rebuilt with all the heavy duty for towing upgrades the shudder went away. I can haul a 15k trailer without trouble.
Now I am having to replace injectors. I have 194k on the truck and already changed 2 but now I am just going to do them all. Does anyone know of a good reputable shop to get them with out spending a ton of money?
Last edited by ranger275c; 12-27-2012 at 02:41 PM.
Reason: addition
I too have got the shudders when towing. I have a 2012 that is now a year old and just started towing a 21000# gn dump trailer about 3 months ago. I am going to look into the driveshaft issues and also contact Cory for advice. Other than that its been smooth sailing with 24000 mi !!! I love this truck!!!
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2012 F-350 6.7 Scorpion Lariat 4x4 CC DRW FX4 in Sterling Grey
The past:
'02 F-350 Lariat 4x4 CC SB 7.3/auto 245k. Time to step up! Sold
'99 F-350 XLT 4x4 CC DRW 7.3/6spd.156k. Tired of shift'n
'92 F-350 XLT Lariat 4x4 CC LB 460/auto. son rolled it!
'85 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC Dually 6.2/auto. too slow!
'78 F-250 XLT Lariat 4x4 SC LB. bought new, got married, had kids, needed 4 doors!
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