2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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1999-2007 Ordering Information Discussion of ordering and status of an order of a Super Duty truck. All engine types allowed.

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Old 06-17-2004, 08:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

I just placed an order for a F350 XLT SD dually CC 4x4 Long bed 4.10 Diesel with the auto Torgshift. I think I screwed up and should have gone with the 6 speed manual.

According to Ford, the gear ratios are
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Manual – Automatic
I 5.79:1 – 3.11:1
II 3.30:1 – 2.22:1
III 2.10:1 – 1.55:1
IV 1.30:1 – 1.00:1
V 1.00:1 – 0.71:1
VI 0.72:1 – N/A
</pre><hr />
Outside of losing the low end “granny” gear or 5.79:1, everything looks the same to me. I have a 2004 F350 3.73 Diesel Torqshift at work, and it tows 10,000 lbs like it not even there. Someone told we you get more power, since the turbo in automatic does not lose it speed. I noticed the “torqshift” holding the RPM higher, and downshifting hard when stopping. Questions:

(1) Will the “downshifting hard” by the transmission pose long term problems?

(2) Even though the “downshifting hard” is done by the transmission, it is not the same thing as a “jake brake”. I know there are several jake brakes available for the manual, but will there be any for the automatics?

(3) Would I be better off purchasing a 6 speed manual, jake brake, and gear box spilter (like the 5x2 spilt)

Thanks in advance…I will buy the beer.

edited to add dually
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Old 06-17-2004, 11:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

It's up to you. Do you want to shift gears or not?[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]I'd stay with the auto, I really like [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] the torqueshift. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 06-18-2004, 07:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

We've always had a truck with a manual for towing. I know the manual transmission will last a lot longer than an auto. But I have a question for you. You said you ordered a 2005 SD diesel with 4.10 gears? I wasn't aware that you could order a diesel with 4.10 gears. How did you do this? Is there a pricing guide, or more complete ordering guide out for the 2005's yet? All I have is one from 4/30/04. Thanks.
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Old 06-18-2004, 10:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

He must have ordered a dually? You can get 4.10's with a dually.
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

I accidentally left out the dually part. I choose it for the 13,000 GVWR since I will have a Lancelite camper and pull 10,000 lbs of horses.
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Old 06-18-2004, 02:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

[ QUOTE ]
According to Ford, the gear ratios are
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Manual – Automatic
I 5.79:1 – 3.11:1
II 3.30:1 – 2.22:1
III 2.10:1 – 1.55:1
IV 1.30:1 – 1.00:1
V 1.00:1 – 0.71:1
VI 0.72:1 – N/A
</pre><hr />

Outside of losing the low end “granny” gear or 5.79:1, everything looks the same to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot really compare the gears in a manual tranny to an automatic. Because the automatic has a torque convertor that multiplys the torque to the rear axle - especially in the lower gears.

So the granny gear in the 6-speed probably won't be any better than the low gear in the automatic - because of the torque convertor in the automatic.

Ford says the automatic is better for heavy towing. In fact, when you order the F-550 with the HD towing pkg, the automatic tranny is a mandatory option. So you can't even get the HD towing pkg with a hand shaker tranny. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

The only reason to order the hand shaker is if you really prefer to drive a stick. The extra cost of the automatic will come back to you when you trade it in. In fact, a nice truck with a stick shifter might be really hard to sell. Most dealers will not stock a hand shaker because there is so little demand for them.

You cannot put a JakeBrake on a PSD. Jacobs doesn't even make one for the PSD.

Several sources sell exhaust brakes (not the same thing as a Jacobs JakeBrake), but Ford will void your engine warranty if you install an exhaust brake. Besides, the 6.0L with automatic has a sort of built-in exhaust brake, so you shouldn't need additional engine braking.
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Old 06-19-2004, 10:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

SmokeyWren,
Do you know the MPG difference between 3.73 vs 4.10 ?
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Old 06-19-2004, 01:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know the MPG difference between 3.73 vs 4.10 ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Theoretically, it's about one MPG when unloaded, and almost nothing when loaded for bear. But in the real world some DRWs with 4.10 rear end get better fuel mileage than some SRWs with 3.73 pulling the same load across the same terrain.

And some don't.

Some DRWs with 4.10 get better fuel mileage than some DRWs with 3.73 pulling the same load across the same terrain.

And some don't.

A big factor in fuel mileage is luck of the draw. But there are so many other variables that it's hard to get a good fix on fuel mileage. Speed and load and terrain play a big role.

The logical plan is to buy what you need for your load. If you will often be loaded to more than about 17,000 pounds GCW, then get the 4.10. Or if a lot of your miles will be towing in mountains or hill country, then get the 4.10. Or if you need the limited slip rear end, then the only way to get the LS on a DRW is to order the 4.10 rear axle.


If you can get by without the LS and won't be towing over 17,000 GCW very often, and won't be towing in mountains and hill country very often, then the 3.73 will probably be better for you.

Buy what you need, and let the fuel mileage fall where it falls. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 06-20-2004, 08:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

Food for thought.....

Don't know much about the new 6.0s (have one on order in an E-350), just sold my 1999 7.3 (w six speed...).

I hear lots of diesel owners brag about how much torque they have, and how great it makes towing, especially compared to similar HP gassers....

The torque curve on my 7.3 showed max at 1,400rpm, dropping off after that. Max torque is acheived at FULL throttle at that rmp. How many automatic drivers have EVER seen full torque??? When you are pulling a hill, as the rpms drop and you start getting those high torque numbers to the rear wheels, the auto downshifts. With my manual, I just leave it alone, let the torque come in to play, and drive over the top..... I've always felt that the manual transmission allows you to USE the power you pay for in a diesel.

I wouldn't want to drag race an automatic, but for towing, you can't beat a manual. Why did you buy your truck?

JMHO....

Chuck
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Old 06-20-2004, 11:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

Smokey,

Do you have any idea why Ford doesn't offer a LS 3.73 on the DRW?

Any idea what RPM's one could expect the 3.73 versus the 4.10 to be while doing highway speeds? Just out of curiousity...

Thanks,
David
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Old 06-20-2004, 12:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea why Ford doesn't offer a LS 3.73 on the DRW?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Other than every option costs money in increased complexity of manufacturing, dealer stocking of vehicles, parts department, etc. So apparently Ford determined that 3.73 open axle and 4.10 LS were the two options that would satisfy most buyers. Adding another option for 3.73 LS would increase costs.

[ QUOTE ]
Any idea what RPM's one could expect the 3.73 versus the 4.10 to be while doing highway speeds?

[/ QUOTE ]

4.10 minus 3.73 = 0.37 divided by 3.73 = 9.9 percent.

So 4.10 RPM will be 9.9 percent more than 3.73 RPM at the same speed.

For example, 70 MPH with 3.73 (and stock-size tires) is about 2,000 RPM. 2,000 + 9.9 percent = 2198 RPM. So 70 MPH with 4.10 (and stock-size tires) is going to be very close to 2,200 RPM.

Ain't this fun! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-20-2004, 12:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

Wow... Once again, thanks for your detailed answers. I guess my first thought was that the fuel mileage would be 10% worse as well. But I went back to one of your prior posts in this thread and you indicated, "Some DRWs with 4.10 get better fuel mileage than some DRWs with 3.73 pulling the same load across the same terrain."

Can you help me understand how the 4.10 could ever get better fuel mileage than a 3.73, all other things being equal, if the engine on the 4.10 truck is spinning 10% more RPMs?

(Sorry, I know this is somewhat off topic from the original subject of this post.)

Thanks,
David
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Old 06-20-2004, 01:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

[ QUOTE ]
Can you help me understand how the 4.10 could ever get better fuel mileage than a 3.73, all other things being equal, if the engine on the 4.10 truck is spinning 10% more RPMs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is no such thing as "all other things being equal". There are thousands of parts in a PSD pickup, and most of those parts have tolerances as to fit and finish. Because of those differences in tolerances, some engines are more efficient that others. Some trannies are more efficient that others. Same with rear ends, U-Joints, front wheel bearings, etc. So two identical trucks can have very different fuel mileage.

I have one of the "bad" ones for fuel mileage. F-250 CrewCab longbed 4x2 with PSD engine and 3.73 rear end. Unloaded cruising at 73 MPH on a trip, I usually get 14 to 15 MPG. Loaded to 17,000 pounds GCW and cruising at 62 MPH, I usually get 10 to 11 MPG. If you spend a lot of time reading here on the DieselStop, you'll read where some F-350 DRWs with 4.10 LS rear ends get better mileage that I do. Even a few lucky folks with F-350 DRW 4x4s get better mileage than I do. That's what I call the "luck of the draw" factor. I have a great truck, but because of the luck of the draw it doesn't get nearly as good a fuel mileage as others report.
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Old 06-20-2004, 04:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

SmokeyWren,
I been told the manual gets better MPG than an automatic, since some of the horsepower is lost in the automatic (torque converter) conversation process. Is that true?
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Old 06-20-2004, 05:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 2005 SUPER DUTY F-350 Torqshift-vs-6 Speed Manual

[ QUOTE ]
SmokeyWren,
I been told the manual gets better MPG than an automatic, since some of the horsepower is lost in the automatic (torque converter) conversation process. Is that true?

[/ QUOTE ]

Theoretically, it's true. But the difference would be tiny with a PSD because the torque convertor stays locked at cruising speeds. At speeds of less than 37 MPH, the torque convertor slips a lot, and that wastes some fuel. So for around town driving, the hand shaker should get better mileage. Cruising on the highway, there should be almost no difference.

Now a generation ago the automatics got much worse mileage than the stick shifters. Because the torque convertor never locked, even at highway speeds. But that doesn't apply to '99-up PSDs.
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