Dealer charges I don't understand????? - Diesel Forum

VINSOTT · 10-09-2003, 08:45 PM

I just got off the phone with dealer and did a bit of homework with the holdback. I asked to deal with the sales manager and got pawned off to a saleman. This dealer is about 3 hours from me. Figured out MSRP and total invoice and he came out with the same figures. Then he added a $360 charge he said goes to FDAF. I am in Florida. He said that is an association fee? Is this a made up charge? He also said a $299 dealer prep fee. What is that for if I am ordering the truck? Do they actually do something for that or is it profit. I figured out the holdback to be slightly over $1800. So I entered this into the negotiations. They said they would be willing to work with the holdback. Then when it came down to actual numbers time he said he had to give the build sheet to a person that was gone for the day to enter and see if Fords prices have gone up "since they change the prices for orders at any time. If anything should only be a couple of hundred more." he said. I already feel like he is starting to pull the same crap as the other 5 dealers have on me already. Any body know about any of these charges??? The Total invoice is $39,245 and the MSRP is $ 44,925. What should I pay for this truck???
Thanks.

frobozz · 10-09-2003, 10:30 PM

FDAF is legit and is different depending on the region of the country.

Dealer prep is bogus. (Though don't forget the "destination charge" - that is legit.)

The "Ford raises their prices all the time" line is probably setting you up to make you believe the invoice numbers you have have since changed. Unless you got them a long time ago, that's probably a trick they're trying to pull on you.

Good luck, and fight the good fight!

Duncan

jdobry · 10-09-2003, 10:34 PM

I just ordered a new 350. Have the dealer run a build sheet for you. It will be labeled "Vehicle Order Confirmation" It is the computer sheet they generate that they use to order from Ford. If they are being straight with you, it will show 2 columns: RETAIL and DLR INV.
At the bottom of mine, the charges are separated out for a full tank of gas: $45.82; FDAF assessment:$375.00 and dest and deliv:$795.00.
Even tho they are listed separate, they are already included in my invoice total. MSRP $47675/INV $42008.82. The "prices for orders" don't change--what is on the KBB/Edmunds sites is the price. They are trying to put back what you are negotiating out of the holdback.
Something is wrong with your approach to these dealers--they should all be willing to print your cost sheet out--maybe they don't think you are for real, maybe you ARE trying to get too much out of them.

Have them pull an invoice on a truck similar to what you want that is in stock--it will have a lot of figures at the bottom--invoice, APLan,XPlan and a lot of other gibberish. Look at the invoice price-- the FDAF and the dest/del are already in it. Then see how much of the holdback you can get. If they won't show you an invoice, go to someone who will, or order from Bobby Williams or Cochise on this site. They'll give you the straight info.

VINSOTT · 10-09-2003, 10:36 PM

Thank you. I will just move on to the next dealer if he says the prices have increased. These are current prices as far as I know. Was looking at Ford Direct on the computer as I was talking to the saleperson on the phone. I just want a straight answer with these salesmen. It doesn't seem to happen with me I guess. Not a good negotiator. I'll keep trying.

VINSOTT · 10-09-2003, 10:44 PM

Back again. I am asking them for invoice minus $1000 for hold back(which still leaves them $800 profit) and any available rebates. I have leased for years and always got good deals, but I'm sick of that and want to get my dream truck. Am I asking too much?? I really don't know.

Fast Forward · 10-09-2003, 11:52 PM

Why work with a dealer you don't already have a relationship with, whom you don't even trust now? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif[/img]

Why not use the leverage of a relationship built up here with Bobby or Cochise? They can get the truck you want and have it drop shipped at the dealer of your choice for pickup. If the dealer squawks at the time of pickup, just tell him it's your brother in laws dealership back East.

VINSOTT · 10-10-2003, 06:19 AM

I gladly would if that is a possibility. What kind of deals can I expect from them? And should I E mail them to contact them? I am ready to order, but if I have to (I don't want to) I can wait all the way until March.

huch1212 · 10-10-2003, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am asking them for invoice minus $1000 for hold back(which still leaves them $800 profit) and any available rebates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Luck!

X Plan price is around $39,450.00 so anything from there + or - $200.00 would be a good deal. It's possible to get a dealer to go for $200.00 below invoice because I did it on the 03 7.3 SD I purchased before the one I have now. I paid right at invoice on the one I currently have. They offered me a decent trade in price on my wrecked (had around 5K in damages when I traded it in) 7.3 so I didn't push them as hard on this one.

Not saying it can't be done but very few dealers would go for that deal IMPO unless you catch one that is hungry for business.

BTW, if ya find a dealer willing to do those numbers be sure and Kiss the sales manager when you take delivery! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

Fast Forward · 10-12-2003, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I gladly would if that is a possibility. What kind of deals can I expect from them? And should I E mail them to contact them? I am ready to order, but if I have to (I don't want to) I can wait all the way until March.

[/ QUOTE ]

Send aPM to either BWilliams or Cochise.

I don't think you will find they bid against each other!

VINSOTT · 10-12-2003, 09:57 PM

I have got one dealer down to $300 below invoice with no other charges such as dealer prep. I read somewhere here about a small business incentive of $300. And I am trying to find out about the AQHA incentive to give me an additional $500 off not counting any rebates that hopefully will be available at time of delivery. I have not mentioned these incentives yet because I feel it will affect their negotiations. I have Contacted Bobby Williams with my specs and am awaiting his price.
Do rebates normally stay about the same or is it all just a crap shoot what they will do with them?

SmokeyWren · 10-13-2003, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have got one dealer down to $300 below invoice with no other charges such as dealer prep.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an excellent price. I doubt you're going to beat it much if you also get all incentives with no dealer packs. Bobby and Cochise generally charge invoice or a bit over invoice, with you getting all the incentives and no dealer packs.

The dealer doesn't pay the incentives - Ford does - so the dealer should be willing to give you all the incentives for which you qualify.

That "dealer prep" charge you mentioned is a dealer pack. So is any "documentation fee".

When I buy a new vehicle, I go by the dealer's invoice. In today's market for a PSD pickup, just look at the invoice price and write your check for that amount - plus TT&L. Forget the holdback - most dealers can't give you any of the holdback and remain in business. But if your final check is for more than invoice plus TT&L, then that means you're also paying for a dealer pack.

And the "invoice price" is not something you figured out from the internet. Those prices don't include FDAF and fuel, which is part of the dealer's invoice cost. The true invoice cost is available only from the actual dealer's invoice - or a printout from the Ford order computer in case of an ordered unit.

Don't worry about the price changes from Ford. Your price will be based on whatever price is in the Ford computer the instant the dealerperson mashes the "order" button. You'll have "price protection" at that price. But while you're spending time deciding what to order, the price could very well go up.

www.kbb.com and other internet pricing sites have accurate but incomplete invoice prices except for a few days after a price change. So just because your actual dealer invoice is not equal to the internet price does not mean your dealer is trying to shaft you. It probably simply means that the internet site is slow in posting the new prices.

If you are so distrustful of dealers, then you should simply order your new vehicle from Bobby or Cochise. You'll get a good deal, but probably not as good as $300 less than invoice plus you get all the incentives.

VINSOTT · 10-13-2003, 01:43 PM

You are correct with the internet invoice pricing. I got a slightly higher number from two dealerships than on the internet. But the two figures were identical. They were not pulling anything over on me. The deal I just made got the price to $929 below invoice, but had the dealer prep added in for $299. Still came out to $630 below invoice. They faxed me the build sheet, and also the numbers break down but nothing is signed by them. Do I need to have a signature from them or they could change the figures at delivery?? They are a big volume dealer and sell many more trucks then most dealerships any where around here. But I have not been there yet (all done over phone) because it is three hours away.

989171 · 10-13-2003, 02:03 PM

Ill vouch for Cochise. His deal on my X was good enough for me to fly from Atlanta to Houston and drive back. I work for an airline so the flight is free. But still, an 800+ mile drive and its still better than any of the stealers in my area wanted to do. By the way, I got a VIN# on Friday but still no build date. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

JJ250 · 10-13-2003, 11:51 PM

Wow, this is not designed to be rude but maybe after five dealers the problem is not them but you. Of course they could try to up the price when you arrive, if you drove 3 hours to a dealership they think you are going to buy, so why not see if they can get a few more dollars form you. My dealer sells me my trucks at invoice I could probably get $50 of the holdback or even more but after purchasing many vehicles from him, he knows me and I know him. When I call him with a question he does not say oh the cheapskate he say hello James.
Dealer prep is different from a pack charge, dealer prep could be that they wax each car before it leaves, could be that every car gets special leather treatment, every car gets VIN etch. Or it could be nothing and all profit. Pack charge is an amount of money usually 200 – 500 dollars that is added to the car that the salesman does not get paid on, this is just a tool in lower the amount the dealer pays out, has nothing to do with what you pay. Unless the salesman will not go under that amount, but then he will get paid a mini if he does so it really does not matter.

PS do you know how much it cost to run a dealership?

ford1228 · 10-14-2003, 08:32 AM

vinscot,
imo, you have the numbers to work with. what you need to do, is decide on what you are willing to pay. then make your offer to the dealer.
i would not try to low ball them, as they have to make some profit!!
you need to develope a good repore whith one dealer, and treat them right. if you do this, they will in turn, treat you right.

i am ordering my truck now, and here is what i did. called the dealer, talked to the fleet mgr. asked him to give me his best price below invoice. he talked with the gm and got back to me later.
invoice, Plus, split the hold back. no packs, no trade. i keep the rebates if there are any when my truck arrives.
the point to this is, they made the deal, and are happy with it. so am i.
it was a win win situation.
jim