OK, after hearing about the new exhaust part,
armed with the exact part number and an air of righteousness I went to my dealer to get that bastard to fix my flutter.
Remember, if you will, that my truck has been diagnosed with V10 flutter on several occasions.
The last time I went they told me that "f**d was aware of the flutter but that there were no engine longevity concerns associated with it". They told me NOT TO COME BACK AGAIN unless f**d notified me, in writing of a fix ,if ever.
My flutter sounded exactly as you others have described. I have listened to some of your wave files. Mine WAS the same.
I went back again anyway. I WANTED THE NEW PART!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, the new service manager at my "dealership of choice" was not aware of
the term "flutter". She suggested I take a ride with an engine tech. We took a ride.
He told me I DIDN'T HAVE FLUTTER!!!!!
He said it was PISTON SLAP! That had been my concern since day 1 but they said only 99s had ever had it! Mines a 2000!
He ordered me a completely new motor. Should have it in 4-8 weeks! Scary? Damn
straight!
DO YOU HAVE FLUTTER?????????????????????????
[This message has been edited by Knocker (edited 11-01-2000).]
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
Although, I won't dispute that you may have piston slap. It must be a different type of piston slap. The most common form of piston slap that most folks complained about was the case where theres a loud knocking for a minute (maybe longer or shorter) after startup on cold mornings.
I'll make a prediction, (hehe, whats the penalty if I'm wrong)..
- you'll get your engine replaced, (just the engine, same headers/y pipe)..
- you'll still hear the sound.. then you'll be really impressed.. good news: you get a free engine thats a year newer than the truck. cool..
KXHauler, you've got me thinking....AGAIN, DAMNIT! I hear my noise between 2200 and 2700 rpms. But i also hear it around 3000
when I'm backing off the throttle. Supposedly, that is the dead give away.
Do you think I'm gonna have the same noise with the new motor? hell, I don't know the difference in sound between piston slap and flutter. the tech did say, though that if I had flutter there would be dense black carbon deposit around the flange at the "rams horn".
I don't have that.
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
I don't have the flutter sound, but do have a rattle/slap noise when the engine is cold right at about 2000 rpm AND right before shifting from second to third(automatic). I can pretty much isolate the sound to an exact rpm spot. All other rpm's seem fine. Is this what Ford is simply "giving out" new engines for, or should I not even be concerned? I like my engine, and haven't had any problems with it, so I'm not about to let Ford touch my truck. Is it a big enough problem that the answer is a whole engine replacement?
What do you think?(just curious)
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99.5 F250 SC LWB Tuff Country Leveling kit,35x12.50 BFG's on Centerlines and more to come
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2002 Silver F350/4WD/PSD/CC/LWB/SRW
4" Turbo back ATS Exhaust/DI Flip Chip
140k and counting
Granitehauler, you pretty much got the same thing I got...Mine sounds "rattly" when letting off the throttle at around 2500 rpm when cold. Haven't really noticed it till the weather started getting colder. Sounds like valve-train rattle, though, and not a knocking sound. Doesn't knock when first started. My '95 Nissan 4cyl pickup also does the exact same thing...sounds rattly when cold. It's done it since it was new and now has about 70,000 mi on it. At one time, Nissan, I think, would also replace the motor but stated that the noise didn't hurt anything. My SuperDuty now has 28,000 mi on it. Hope it's not the "piston-slap". But I'm also under the impression that the piston-slap won't affect longetivity of this motor. If that's true, then I'll just keep what I got. I'm afraid of too many other problems if I take it to Ford and they put in another motor. (Leaks, mis-wirings, loose/missing components, other problems, delays, part-incompatablity, who knows!)
And yes, I've still got that flutter...it's an entirely different sound that happens at predictable circumstances and RPM's.
I had a chevy 350 with piston slap but it didn't happen until about 78,000 miles. At
about 90,000 the engine self destructed.
I'm not gonna take the chance that this one will blow up just out of warranty. And btw,
I'm sure ford is not just handing out new motors.
I'm a little worried about the new motor. I
don't even know if the old one is bad. I do know the noise, regardless of its cause is driving me insane. If the new engine doesn't
fix it I'll deal with a ford rep on it. Maybe by then someone will have determined if headers help or not.
Like you guys pointed out, there are many potential problems with a new install. But I
can't live the the truck as it is and I damn sure can't sell it with the noise.
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Tom
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
If the 2001s definitely have flutter?
Is it only caused by CA emissions?
Why do some have it and not others?
Do any of you have piston slap?
Do the 2001s have more HP/TQ?
I'm still worried.
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
Knocker: oh, you and a few others here just now described a symptom I don't think I've heard of..
1. knocking at cold startup for short duration: piston slap. Most common on pre-99 5.4L's
2. knocking like sound (but more airy) during
acceleration under load. Easier heard with a manual tranny in 3rd,4th,5th. Heard w/ auto tranny just before a shift.. More common on V10 but also heard on a 5.4L: flutter
My truck experiences this type. The airy knocking like sound occurs at all RPM's when you are accelerating under load. If your at a constant speed, theres no noise at all. Diag'd as flutter. It's harder to hear with an auto tranny, cause when you press on the gas hard, it will shift down and the engine roar drowns out the sound.
3. knocking like sound at certain RPM's (like 2200) under load. I've only heard this reported by V10 owners: flutter
4?. knocking when you LET OFF the accelerator: ?? I've not heard of this before.. I would not have guessed flutter there.. So maybe this is an indication of a different type of issue that more related to piston slap (but not the infamous cold engine start slap).
HHHMMMMMMMMMMMM. One more try... My noise sounds like a small ball peen hammer
with a soft cloth wrapped around it rapidly knocking on the block at 2200 to 2700 rpms
when rapidly accelerating. I also hear it at around 3000 rpms AFTER the auto tranny shifts
into fourth and the rpms are backing down.
I hear it as a loud "tick" when pulling a large trailer at most periods of acceleration.
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
ok, so its not when you let off the accelerator. whew. Basically it sounds like you have #2 above. (Same as me).
You hear it when theres the most load on the engine just after a shift..
So, I'll waffle back to my origional prediction then.. The new engine won't help you at all.. I think the dude's with the new Y-Pipe have a better lead.. I think you might give us the proof of this..
a. get your engine replaced.. (I'm betting you'll still here basically the same thing. maybe softer as it doesn't seem that everyone has level of intensity of sound.)
b. then get the Y-pipe changed, and see if that makes a difference. (like a few others have reported).
KX, I guess you're probably right. It must be flutter but it seems i'm more bothered by it than anyone else. At least thats how it seems to me. Since the new motor was my dealers suggestion and ford has enough confidence in the mechanic to spend the bucks I'll take the new mill. If i've got the same noise when all is said and done I think I'll have a better handle on ford. I'm hoping they'll spend the extra effort to make the situation right. If not, and the noise pushes me past my mental limit, I'll sell the bastard, cut my losses and move on. OR drive the damn thing through the showroom window and claim temporary insanity, although, anyone who knows me knows its not temporary.
How do you guys know that flutter is real? Any proof? Or does a logical sounding explanation satisfy you? Could this be a big ford cover up of something worse (piston slap) that ford just doesn't want to fix? After all, webigon is the only guy who has the supposed new fix and we're not getting a lot of data from him lately. maybe he's a ford operative sent here to keep our fantasy
flutter alive. Just a thought.
I think I need a little sleep. Too much stress worrying about flutter, piston slap, or whatever.
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
I have a 2001. From another thread that contained a picture of the 99.5 y-pipe, I can say that my y-pipe is the same. I have a very slight flutter. On a cold start-up, I get a "rattle-knock" just for an instant...not even a second. I guess it could be a piston sound but I attributed it to the top end of the engine not having instant oil to it on start-up. At this point, I don't even want to think about a service bay so unless it gets MUCH worse, I'm happy.
1) A real sputtery/fluffy exhaust rattle sound, kinda like a bad leak in the pipe somewhere. It happens around 2000 rpm and is worse under a load at same rpm. Worse,say, when pulling a trailer up a gentle hill. Around town when empty, the exhaust noise is short, quieter, and quick because engine simply goes past 2000, shifts, then settles back down with barely any load, say, when cruising down a major city thouroughfare.
If I hit the gas all the way or even just do a moderately quick acceleration (like passing someone quickly), there's no flutter simply because engine is probably too loud to hear the flutter.
2) Then there's a valve-train rattly sound
like sticky-cold-valves? when engine is cold.
It doens't make any odd sounds when started,
but will give the rattly sounds while driving at around 2500rpm when I let off the gas a bit to influence tranny to shift to next gear. If I wait a few EXTRA minutes after initial start-up then drive away (I normally wait an actual minute or two during normal times, but if I give engine 5 mins or so, I would call these the "extra" minutes..) ,rattle sound is much less or not there. When engine is fully warm, then the rattly sound is gone but the flutter appears as described above.
Never had any loud block-knock sounds yet. Time will tell since it is starting to get colder around here.
BTW, I'm using the 5w-30 just like Ford insists on using. (I'd rather use 10-30 or 10-40 like my other vehicles, but don't want to take any chances yet....heard something about engine having a high-flow/low pressure?
pump that doesn't work well with thicker oils. Not sure exactly, though.
Hmmmmmm.... the variance on these trucks is "interesting" (and worrysome, sometimes..)
Worrysome. Hell ya. Yours noise doesn't sound like mine at all. My is worst under hard acceleration and is getting worse. Its always betwwen 2200 and 3000 rpms. I just noticed a short knocking sound at cold start,
also! If all the guys with decent hearing in both ears are not really upset by the noise
must not have the same thing I've got.
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2000 F350 XLT CC DRW V10, White, VERY , VERY Pretty!
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