I have the V10 so I am biased. But I can remember back five months. When I was shopping the sales men were hot to get me into a PSD and I was very interested cuz I do love the power.... but when I put the numbers in the computer I was using some bogus numbers the dealer gave me.
I used this site to get a real world SWAG (scientific wild ass guess)on the care and feeding of a PSD.
Then I did a web search on the rise and fall of Diesel costs in my area... Biggest supprise was the +20c avg cost of diesel vs 87 octane. (in my area)
Since I don't use the truck for hire and only put 12-15k per year on a truck I was hard put to justify the extra 3500 up front.
All I'm really saying is apply real world assumptions to the spread sheet.
__________________
White 05 F350 King Ranch 3 valve V10 5R110 Auto 4.30:1LS 4x4 LWB SRW born on 3 Sept 04
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fredvon4: "...the sales men were hot to get me into a PSD..." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is more markup in a PSD that's why they like to sell more. Just like there is more markup in a Lariet than an XL.
Your getting what you pay for with the PSD...but then so is the dealer.
I found the sheet almost totally useless, however, as the assumptions:
a. MUCH lower diesel fuel costs
b. 50% better fuel economy for the PSD.
are flawed.
This apparently led to the spreadsheet designer's arbitrarily assigned ceiling of 100,000 miles for cost recovery. This shows a bias toward the PSD and is an example of an assumption driving a conclusion.
Bad science. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
originally posted by spoon:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I found the sheet almost totally useless, however, as the assumptions:
a. MUCH lower diesel fuel costs
b. 50% better fuel economy for the PSD.
are flawed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spoon, did you know you can input the prices for fuel in your area and change the mileage to what you think is a true reading and the sheet recalculates it? I was very happy to plug in my numbers (V10, 12 MPG, and my brothers PSD, 15 MPG) and saw that it is well over 100,000 miles to break even. Try the sheet again, I think you will like it. HTH.
Rob
You are right about the ceiling, I would like the sheet to go out to like the 400K+ mile mark, where the PSD can go.
Replace the oil change costs and the price of the engine option. This makes it even more interesting.
And, remember that in the winter the diesel prices get pretty high (at least around here).
Tom
PS: I concur with the +100,000 break-even. If the formula took it out further, the numbers look even better (for the V-10).
__________________ 1999 F-250 XLT PSD SC/SB,, Oxford White, Gray Cloth, 4x4,Cab Clearance Lights, SOF, Bilstein shock absorbers, Michelin LTX M/S, DPPI (MBRP)Stainless Exhaust, 7.3L AIS Severe Duty Filter, Warn Front Hitch/Winch Mount (Tow and Pull???)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bajarunner: originally posted by spoon:
Spoon, did you know you can input the prices for fuel in your area and change the mileage to what you think is a true reading and the sheet recalculates it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The purported purpose of the sheet was to reveal the mileage required to recover the cost of the PSD. That point will NEVER arrive in this sheet as the 100k ceiling mark is 'hard-wired' in the formulas.
BTW: I use Excel for far more complex tasks than this (and Supercalc before that and Lotus before that and Visicalc before that), ergo the criticism of the design. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
My point was, the designer ASSUMED cost recovery would occur BEFORE 100k miles (based, probably on the false assumptions noted above), therefore stopped there. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
In reality, the point of crossover for the graph lines would occur beyond 300,000 miles, if the designer had included other PSD costs such as coolant additive, more frequent/expensive filtration media, more tire wear from hauling another 1/2 ton of engine around, etc.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
i had a 2000 psd 4 x4 f250 crew cab sb, until i got in an acident and the insurance company totaled it. i replaced it with a v10 f25 4 x4 crew cab. on the psd my milage was always 15, the new truck (v10) i have been getting 12 -13 on the highway and pull a trailer about 10.5. in my area the deisel has been higher by about 20, and oil changes about $60 for psd and $33 for v 10. at these numbers i would be hard pressed to recommend a diesel.
Hmmmmm Fleet-Rite DC4-A coolant additive (also called FW-16 by FMC) Last Price I paid was about $4.50 for 16 oz bottle. Last bottle of MeGuire's polish, cleaner, & wax Son bought for His Lightning was about $8 each for each one! Don't make such a big deal over the cost of the coolant additive, the Biggest PITA is getting rid of the old antifreeze!! And My PSD oil changes cost $33 or less too! Same as the V-10. My PSD gets 18.8 MPG and Son's Lighning gets about 14 on the highway. So far after 162,000 miles Fuel is my second biggest expense on My truck, after purchase price, but Insurance is Right behind fuel in third place. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
__________________
Denny
'96 F-250 Reg. Cab 4X4 5-sp POWERSTROKE
294,000 mi & NO Problems, LUK Clutch, and the Cat is buried in the back yard!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr.Evil: Hmmmmm My PSD oil changes cost $33 or less too! Same as the V-10. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How on earth can you buy 4 gallons of oil for the same price as 6 quarts? I know the PSD 'pineapple juice can' filter is at least twice the cost of the V-8/10 filters.
Are you 'synthesizing' the Lightning? [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
__________________
2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
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